Discussion Do you suppose those people who criticise the site spend much time here?

[Forever Sleep]

When hateful campaigns are set up, articles are written or people simply speak out against the forum, do you ever wonder if they've actually visited it and/ or spent much time here?

I think it's important to question ourselves. Am I the delussional one here? Type deal. But, I just don't see the 'suicide cult', evil incarnate place they often make it out to be.

People may not discourage suicide- if a person's mind seems made up but I very much diagree that suicide is encoraged here. Or, even normalised. So many discussions revolve around why it is so taboo. Why in some cases, it always will be. We don't usually downplay what a serious decision it is and the effect it is likely to have on others. If it is at all 'celebrated', it is done so very consciously on a personal level most of the time.

Sometimes I just wonder if anything that isn't a knee jerk: 'Don't you dare do this- call the police!' reaction is seen to be encouragement.

What do you think? Do you suppose some 'infiltators' spend time here and still continue to hate the place? Is it our perspective that is skewed or, theirs?

 

[macaroni]

No, I think they spend enough time here to convince themselves of the perception of this place they already had coming in. I don't think there's any attempt to understand why people might come to a place like this, or take the time to research both sides of the argument.

Ironically, mental health professionals tend to agree that the best way to prevent suicide is to have an open conversation about it, yet the people who apparently 'care' about mental health do the complete opposite. 'Suicide' is a trigger word and people panic and shove you to someone else so they don't have to deal with it.

Seriously, people say 'if you feel suicidal, talk to someone' but they don't think of what comes after that. I spoke to someone. I spoke to my GP. They told me to call the crisis lines. The internet's set up to shove the crisis lines down your throat if you enter enough trigger words into the search engine. But what happens when you call the crisis lines? They panic when you mention suicide, and tell you to go to A&E because they don't want to deal with you, they don't want the liability.

But unless you've actually harmed yourself, A&E can't do shit. So they just tell you to call the crisis lines. When all you want to do is talk about your suicidal thoughts without being treated like a threat or a ticking time bomb. That's what this place offers, a place to talk about it without having to carefully police your words so you don't end up being walled out with the crisis lines.

My opinion is that my perspective is 'skewed' because I am sick and my brain is sick. I'm not going to speak for everyone on this forum, however. But instead of actually treating the sickness, people get scared and shove you away. But hey, as long as you're alive, that's alright for the government, you're still being a good little cog in the machine until you're too sick to work, then you're a burden on the taxpayers.

Maybe I'm just salty because I'm from the UK and this site has now been blocked so I instead did the 'right' (!!!) thing by calling Samaritans and they were absolutely useless. SHOUT didn't even answer

 

[darksouls]

I think the people have a problem with themselves
they are dissatisfied
that is why they look for a scapegoat
and sasu is an excellent scapegoat for these people

 

[Pluto]

 

[naookoo128]

I havent read such articles but I can definitly imagine someone with like almost no problems in life and low empathy could see us as a SUICIDE CULT. Skewed, yes.

My opinion is that my perspective is 'skewed' because I am sick and my brain is sick.

Agreed, same for me.

Tbh, to me suicide feels very normalised here. But I´m also only hanging around in the suicide threads, so... yeah. Cant judge it, its one of the things that are helping right now.

Seriously, people say 'if you feel suicidal, talk to someone' but they don't think of what comes after that. I spoke to someone. I spoke to my GP. They told me to call the crisis lines. The internet's set up to shove the crisis lines down your throat if you enter enough trigger words into the search engine. But what happens when you call the crisis lines? They panic when you mention suicide, and tell you to go to A&E because they don't want to deal with you, they don't want the liability.

But besides GP, crisis line and A&E, why no psychotherapist? Sorry maybe I sound stupid, I´m just confused why the GP didnt sent you there. They are the best we can get if it works out. I know it´s hard to find someone and it doesnt work for everyone, especially for men the conversation-based therapy is often difficult due to our socialization and so on, but for me it helped a lot I must say, its worth a try. And I think thats also what the "mental health professionals" mean when they are saying that a conversation helps. They don´t mean forums on the Internet.

 

[WakingNightmare]

I'm sure there's some people out there who hate read the posts here to feel superior or whatever.
But I think most of the critics would get to the main page see suicide discussion and that's enough for them to want to shut the site down

 

[Apathy79]

When hateful campaigns are set up, articles are written or people simply speak out against the forum, do you ever wonder if they've actually visited it and/ or spent much time here?

I think it's important to question ourselves. Am I the delussional one here? Type deal. But, I just don't see the 'suicide cult', evil incarnate place they often make it out to be.

People may not discourage suicide- if a person's mind seems made up but I very much diagree that suicide is encoraged here. Or, even normalised. So many discussions revolve around why it is so taboo. Why in some cases, it always will be. We don't usually downplay what a serious decision it is and the effect it is likely to have on others. If it is at all 'celebrated', it is done so very consciously on a personal level most of the time.

Sometimes I just wonder if anything that isn't a knee jerk: 'Don't you dare do this- call the police!' reaction is seen to be encouragement.

What do you think? Do you suppose some 'infiltators' spend time here and still continue to hate the place? Is it our perspective that is skewed or, theirs?

There are a few ex-users like that Jeremy guy who came here when they were suicidal, recovered (presumably not through the site?), and then went on a rage against the site for encouraging suicide.

But the majority are parents of kids who have ctb. And the viewpoint is almost always the same. "Sure, she had problems, but she was 15, they would have resolved with time, except that she found this site, and became convinced suicide was best, and then got shown a foolproof way to do it, and told best wishes when she did".

Part of me wants to say whatever brought her here was likely a far bigger problem than what happened after she got here, and those comments are cherry picked to make it sound as bad as possible, and kids aren't supposed to be here anyway. But part of me also realises I've seen that situation play out too many times to pretend it isn't a problem.

I don't know the answer. I'd be much more comfortable with this site being a net benefit if there were no kids here. That's the biggest issue the site will continue to get attacked for. But I don't have a solution to that. None of the enforcement methods on that front are good.

 

[zardoz]

No, I think they spend enough time here to convince themselves of the perception of this place they already had coming in. I don't think there's any attempt to understand why people might come to a place like this, or take the time to research both sides of the argument.

Ironically, mental health professionals tend to agree that the best way to prevent suicide is to have an open conversation about it, yet the people who apparently 'care' about mental health do the complete opposite. 'Suicide' is a trigger word and people panic and shove you to someone else so they don't have to deal with it.

Seriously, people say 'if you feel suicidal, talk to someone' but they don't think of what comes after that. I spoke to someone. I spoke to my GP. They told me to call the crisis lines. The internet's set up to shove the crisis lines down your throat if you enter enough trigger words into the search engine. But what happens when you call the crisis lines? They panic when you mention suicide, and tell you to go to A&E because they don't want to deal with you, they don't want the liability.

But unless you've actually harmed yourself, A&E can't do shit. So they just tell you to call the crisis lines. When all you want to do is talk about your suicidal thoughts without being treated like a threat or a ticking time bomb. That's what this place offers, a place to talk about it without having to carefully police your words so you don't end up being walled out with the crisis lines.

My opinion is that my perspective is 'skewed' because I am sick and my brain is sick. I'm not going to speak for everyone on this forum, however. But instead of actually treating the sickness, people get scared and shove you away. But hey, as long as you're alive, that's alright for the government, you're still being a good little cog in the machine until you're too sick to work, then you're a burden on the taxpayers.

Maybe I'm just salty because I'm from the UK and this site has now been blocked so I instead did the 'right' (!!!) thing by calling Samaritans and they were absolutely useless. SHOUT didn't even answer

I agree. I'm UK too.

Everyone says in the mainstream media/society "reach out and talk to someone, anyone", but when you do finally reach out to a family member/friend/health care professional, it is (in my experience, but I think this is common) met by them with an inability to process it or deal with it in any meaningful or helpful way at all, and is just met with some lame token response.

I think the "rejection" that many people take this for isn't meant as such, although it is in a practical sense, but instead stems from their inability to deal with the topic. It's not their fault, dealing with this subject is not something most people have much experience of.

When I have told my GP and other health care professionals about my suicidal ideation they immediately go into box-ticking mode, and ask "Have you done anything to put this into practice". Up until recently the answer to that has been "no", so they immediately dismiss it. Now that is not true and the answer would be "yes" (I am making provision to be able to CTB if I decide to), but the way people get treated now with welfare checks and so on (raiding your home as if you are some sort of criminal) and the attitude of the authorities (Gov/Ofcom, BBC, C4 etc) to sites like this makes me not want to open up about it to the regular support services. They'd possibly raid my home searching for things and cart me of for a mental health assessment.

One good doctor I saw as a hospital outpatient (NHS) for a regular long-term medical condition and discussed this with said they were going to refer me for councelling, as my depressed suicidal mood was affecting my ability to deal with that health condition effectively, but I never heard any more about it. The NHS is on its knees as we know, they are cutting resources like this back to nothing or altogether.

There are a few ex-users like that Jeremy guy who came here when they were suicidal, recovered (presumably not through the site?), and then went on a rage against the site for encouraging suicide.

But the majority are parents of kids who have ctb. And the viewpoint is almost always the same. "Sure, she had problems, but she was 15, they would have resolved with time, except that she found this site, and became convinced suicide was best, and then got shown a foolproof way to do it, and told best wishes when she did".

Part of me wants to say whatever brought her here was likely a far bigger problem than what happened after she got here, and those comments are cherry picked to make it sound as bad as possible, and kids aren't supposed to be here anyway. But part of me also realises I've seen that situation play out too many times to pretend it isn't a problem.

I don't know the answer. I'd be much more comfortable with this site being a net benefit if there were no kids here. That's the biggest issue the site will continue to get attacked for. But I don't have a solution to that. None of the enforcement methods on that front are good.

Well said.

 

[macaroni]

But besides GP, crisis line and A&E, why no psychotherapist? Sorry maybe I sound stupid, I´m just confused why the GP didnt sent you there. They are the best we can get if it works out. I know it´s hard to find someone and it doesnt work for everyone, especially for men the conversation-based therapy is often difficult due to our socialization and so on, but for me it helped a lot I must say, its worth a try. And I think thats also what the "mental health professionals" mean when they are saying that a conversation helps. They don´t mean forums on the Internet.

You're just as confused as I am then. I'm not great with how things work with all the departments, so I kind of rely on the sign posters like my GP to point me in the right direction. My GP referred me to MHICS, who referred me to TalkPlus. TalkPlus rejected my first referral and said I need to complete an online emotional management class, which I did, though I didn't find it useful because it was all about 'tricks' to calm the body down, like box breathing, which I don't really benefit from because when I'm suicidal, I'm feeling completely detatched and logical. My body isn't panicking, so box breathing isn't going to do anything.

But I did the class, referred back to TalkPlus, who told me to do the second level. I did that, referred back, and they straight up rejected me with no reason why. MHICS said it was probably because of the suicidal stuff and TalkPlus not wanting to take on that liability. They said they'd find out a reason, and I never heard from them again.

In my experience, it's been endless hoops to jump through just to be taken seriously. Only, I never seem to be taken seriously, there's just more hoops. After a while you get tired of jumping

 

[naookoo128]

In my experience, it's been endless hoops to jump through just to be taken seriously. Only, I never seem to be taken seriously, there's just more hoops. After a while you get tired of jumping

Until you start jumping... once again.
Sorry, terrible joke. Speaking of normalising suicide...

Well yeah that sounds like a really stupid and exhausting thing to go through... I really hope you will find an expert to talk to (and a better job ofc), not just a fucking app or AI that shows you how to barely stay alive, lol. I obviously have no idea how it works in the UK, otherwise I´d love to offer help on finding something.

 

[macaroni]

Until you start jumping... once again.
Sorry, terrible joke. Speaking of normalising suicide...

oh dw I saw the joke, I just couldn't figure it out

 

[moonlightbeach]

Everyone says in the mainstream media/society "reach out and talk to someone, anyone", but when you do finally reach out to a family member/friend/health care professional, it is (in my experience, but I think this is common) met by them with an inability to process it or deal with it in any meaningful or helpful way at all, and is just met with some lame token response.

ironically, my note is going to be focused on this the most. the ephemerality of suicide. how people think it just goes away and that everything becomes sunshine and rainbows.

 

[CatLvr]

View attachment 173767

Yeah, but THAT is the face of a baby saying "I love you more than life itself! YOU are my EVERYTHING!"

(Told y'all I AM the weird cat lady!!" And yes, that squint is your cat saying - I love you as much as it is possible for me to love a mere commoner. NOW ... PET ME AND GIVE ME TREATS! )

 

[Eriktf]

100% they visits the site and open a few of the newest post but i dont think they gonna read much more then that
there probably a few impostors that reads a little more but the average journalist just making a story wont spend to munch time on here