Do you ever hate your parents for bringing you into this world?

[TheSomebody]

I really hate their decision to bring me into this world and with horrible genes. I always look for a way to blame them, but I just can't find a logical way to do it because I know they're not to blame.

 

[puppet_nihilist]

I loathe my father but I respect my mother a lot. She has been through immense pain but she always triumphed. She's the most competent and resilient woman I know in existence. It's not an exaggeration to say that my mother did not have sufficient time in order to contemplate the morality and long term consequences of having kids with a man as stubborn, narcissistic, self-important, and ill-tempered as my father. If my mom ever did anything wrong, it was marrying that foolish man-child. I am the product of this cursed marriage. I'm so deformed and bipolar, I coexist between success and failure, it reflects the conflict between my parent's personalities in a very cliched way. But I still blame no one, who decides how they turn out anyway aye? I wish I wasn't born though.

 

[Braindead Atheist]

I really hate them for bringing me into this world and with horrible genes. I always look for a way to blame them, but I just can't find a logical way to do it because I know they're not to blame.

I loathe my father but I respect my mother a lot. She has been through immense pain but she always triumphed. She's the most competent and resilient woman I know in existence. It's not an exaggeration to say that my mother did not have sufficient time in order to contemplate the morality and long term consequences of having kids with a man as stubborn, narcissistic, self-important, and ill-tempered as my father. If my mom ever did anything wrong, it was marrying that foolish man-child. I am the product of this cursed marriage. I'm so deformed and bipolar, I coexist between success and failure, it reflects the conflict between my parent's personalities in a very cliched way. But I still blame no one, who decides how they turn out anyway aye? I wish I wasn't born though.

I too wish I wasn't born. I'm so sorry that your dad was an ass.

 

[AndromedaZ]

No, it's not their fault condoms have a failure rate. I hate them for all the abuse that happened after

 

[Mr2005]

No and it sounds really childish

 

[deflationary]

I don't but it's as good of a reason to hate someone as any. I just view them as victims of their biological drives, but really that's true for everyone with every crime.

No and it sounds really childish

What's so childish about hating someone because you're a victim of their gambling? Suicidal people that aren't at least sympathetic to antinatalism puzzle me.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

No, they'll get what they deserve for that one when I CTB. Bringing my siblings into this (forcing me to cause collateral damage) is something that I do hate.

 

[Mr2005]

I don't but it's as good of a reason to hate someone as any. I just view them as victims of their biological drives, but really that's true for everyone with every crime.


What's so childish about hating someone because you're a victim of their gambling? Suicidal people that aren't at least sympathetic to antinatalism puzzle me.

I'm in debt = everyone must die?

 

[deflationary]

I'm in debt = everyone must die?

Wat? More like, I'm not gonna justify being thrown into debt just so other people could reap the rewards. I don't consent to being human sacrifice to create other people that are happy.

 

[Mr2005]

Wat? More like, I'm not gonna justify being thrown into debt just so other people could reap the rewards. I don't consent to being human sacrifice to create other people that are happy.

Ok. I'm sick of having antinatalism discussions so I'll keep it short. I don't care. You can do what you want but if you start deciding what other people can do then you're just the same as prolifers. I know where my life went wrong. My parents can be blamed for that as can I. I was happy once so are you telling me I never should have been born? It was something I didn't ask for but if it was going swimmingly I don't think you'd be angry about it.

 

[deflationary]

You can do what you want but if you start deciding what other people can do then you're just the same as prolifers.

Having kids is the quintessential example of deciding for other people. I agree that it shouldn't be done. :)

 

[OnlyTheWind]

Everyone should die. Humanity should die.

 

[hʚll]

Ok. I'm sick of having antinatalism discussions so I'll keep it short. I don't care. You can do what you want but if you start deciding what other people can do then you're just the same as prolifers. I know where my life went wrong. My parents can be blamed for that as can I. I was happy once so are you telling me I never should have been born? It was something I didn't ask for but if it was going swimmingly I don't think you'd be angry about it.

if you're so sick of it, why are you always replying to them?
the problem is at the very bottom of everything, no one has ever consented to be born. if you decide to bring someone in this earth,you are gambling with a life which is not yours, knowing full of all the horrible things that could happen to them. inb4 you say it's impossible to get consent from a non existent being, well if you can't get that consent , you simply don't force your will on it.

 

[Mr2005]

Having kids is the quintessential example of deciding for other people. I agree that it shouldn't be done. :)

Someone was saying their shrimp had babies and I used this. Brought home the absurdity of it all. If anyone should be antinatalist it's starving kids in third world countries but I bet they're not because they don't have the time (or the beards) to stroke them. You can't get consent from something that doesn't exist, that doesn't make it wrong. It makes it natural. Thank heavens something still is

 

[hʚll]

You can't get consent from something that doesn't exist, that doesn't make it wrong. It makes it natural.

natural doesn't equal good. it's often quite the opposite
you're probably one of those people who thinks suffering is normal and acceptable just because it's natural.

 

[Mr2005]

if you're so sick of it, why are you always replying to them?
the problem is at the very core of everything, no one has ever consented to be born. if you decide to bring someone in this earth,you are gambling with a life which is not yours, knowing full of all the horrible things that could happen to them. inb4 you say it's impossible to get consent from a non existent being, well if you can't get that consent , you simply don't force your will on it.

Too late I already said it. Consent is a social construct, not something I would have thought you valued too much. I noticed you loved the everyone must die comment. You know that includes you right? Not something a parent would say and don't act like it's for their own good because if you asked for their consent since it means so much to you you wouldn't get it

natural doesn't equal good. it's often quite the opposite

The clouds, the stars, rivers, mountains, sunsets. That's the good things in life. Knowing I'm a small fish in a large pond makes me feel better

 

[whywere]

YES. I have mentioned the whole story on here too many times to bore everyone by retyping and repeating it. 100% YES, I had no "parents".

Walter

 

[mentalhealthfighter]

Well, I'm not supposed to be here. My life is an accident. On top of that I also have a syndrome. Do I hate my parents for it? Yeah, they should have known better. But I dont hate my mom because she has always taken care of me.

 

[hʚll]

Too late I already said it. Consent is a social construct, not something I would have thought you valued too much. I noticed you loved the everyone must die comment. You know that includes you right? Not something a parent would say and don't act like it's for their own good because if you asked for their consent since it means so much to you you wouldn't get it

The clouds, the stars, rivers, mountains, sunsets. That's the good things in life. Knowing I'm a small fish in a large pond makes me feel better

i think it would be better for all life to go extinct, yes. but i am not gonna kill everyone because of that of course. at this point the people that already exist are stucked in an existence from which is extremely hard to exit. everyone is coping in the best wway they can, and if someone finds value in living, good for them, so if you think is worth living because rivers sunsets etc, no one will force you to exit. i don't want people to suffer.


antinatalism belives that life is not worth starting. it doesn't imply that life is not worth continuing once started : that's up to the individual. their choice. while if you want to bring a new life, you're just making a choice which is not yours.
i'm just saying it would have been even better for everyone to have never existed. that would have prevented unnecessary suffering that come from being slaves to needs that no one ever asked for. when we were in the void , we didn't need anything. no one needed anything, why decide for someone else the need to be brought here?
people can decide for their life only, not for the life of someone else, even if this someone is still non existent.
in other words the consent of the non existent comes before the consent of the person wanting to be a parent

and yeah i value consent and freedom of choice. that's why i hold dear the antinatalism cause above all.

 

[Mr2005]

i think it would be better for all life to go extinct, yes. but i am not gonna kill everyone because of that of course. at this point the people that already exist are stucked in an existence from which is extremely hard to exit. everyone is coping in the best wway they can, and if someone finds value in living, good for them, so if you think is worth living because rivers sunsets etc, no one will force you to exit. i don't want people to suffer.


antinatalism belives that life is not worth starting. it doesn't imply that life is not worth continuing once started : that's up to the individual. their choice. while if you want to bring a new life, you're just making a choice which is not yours.
i'm just saying it would have been even better for everyone to have never existed. that would have prevented unnecessary suffering that come from being slaves to needs that no one ever asked for. when we were in the void , we didn't need anything. no one needed anything, why decide for someone else the need to be brought here?
people can decide for their life only, not for the life of someone else, even if this someone is still non existent.
in other words the consent of the non existent comes before the consent of the person wanting to be a parent

and yeah i value consent and freedom of choice. that's why i hold dear the antinatalism cause above all.

It's becoming an echo chamber here. It's breeding antinatalists. I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change mine

 

[puppet_nihilist]

Ok. I'm sick of having antinatalism discussions so I'll keep it short. I don't care. You can do what you want but if you start deciding what other people can do then you're just the same as prolifers. I know where my life went wrong. My parents can be blamed for that as can I. I was happy once so are you telling me I never should have been born? It was something I didn't ask for but if it was going swimmingly I don't think you'd be angry about it.

I think there's a very sensitive and subtle problem with the whole issue. I'll try to be as subtle and as gentle as I can in describing it in the hopes of not being misunderstood.

What distinguishes moral judgement from, let's call it legal policy or law, is that one of these two is forcefully implemented in order to make people act a certain way with punishment being forced upon the disobedient. Antinatalism, for me at least, is fascinating because it touches on a binary choice where both choices do not carry any drastic legal consequences while still retaining massive moral, existential, social, and economic implications on a large scale. It's what determines whether the human species will continue propagating towards the future or not, and whether that propagation is justified given the suffering it leaves in its wake. That is the undeniable issue that lies at the core of antinatalism.

The gist of what I'm trying to say is that moral choices that do not carry drastic legal implications (although they are a very small category of choices, like whether your diet is vegan or not, whether you'll reproduce or not, whether you'll adopt or donate, how much you should donate to the poor, whether you'll commit suicide given you might make loved ones suffer, whether voluntary euthanasia should be allowed to all which it absolutely should be, whether you should divorce if you have kids, whether you should commit suicide if you want to but you have kids who still depend on you, stuff like that) aren't universal, absolute or, most importantly, oppressive (except for the one about legalizing euthanasia since, if you can spot that, it's the only choice involving drastic legal consequences and hence is oppressive to us prochoicers. Apart from divorce where the law only acts as an instrument and does not influence the personal choice itself, same with adoption). They are subjective choices and they cannot be generalized or implemented in a practical manner due to their sheer logistical complexity and impracticality. We are all very divided on these matters, that's where this complexity stems from. It's unfathomably weird how much our opinions differ in these matters.

Antinatalism absolutely does not force its choices on other people, it only demands that people should view and evaluate life through the lens of negative ethics and it has arguments that support that. That's different from saying that antinatalism forces people to refrain from procreating, that's absolutely false. It only demands that you judge reproduction as unethical given some particular set of claims and arguments which you might not accept, which is totally fine since these claims aren't absolute. But, my view in antinatalism is unwavering since I personally can't find any arguments that are capable of leaving so much as a dent, but again that's my opinion. And an opinion that is used to justify moral choices like the ones we're currently dealing with don't warrant or justify punishing people who don't agree with it. Antinatalism or any moral philosophical position for that matter is absolutely not as mechanistic as crime and punishment. We're not In a fucking court is what I'm trying to say lol.

In the end, antinatalism forces you to take a specific view of morality - a negative utilitarian one. This makes a huge difference from claiming that antinatalism forces you to refrain from procreation. It does not do that, it demands that you view the act of procreating itself as unethical. That's why some ignorant people claim that antinatalists are eugenicists or something. Eugenicists aren't interested in morality, they want a super breed of humans through a process that involves forced sterilization legislated by the law and selective breeding of those who are determined to be fit by standards that whatever nazi-like government set up. Arriving at a decision through the discussion of morality is what characterizes a lot of the philosophical discourse around these ethics topics. That's way different from being oppressed by choices that influence the laws which guide and restrict our actions.

And what if Antinatalism actually claims that you should refrain from procreating directly, it does not demand that those who reproduce be punished. In fact it can't, because antinatalism is negative utilitarian. It is anti suffering by definition, so it will just force you to minimize the suffering of your offspring. Why can't people see how delicate, empathetic, and forgiving antinatalism is lol.

 

[Mr2005]

I think there's a very sensitive and subtle problem with the whole issue. I'll try to be as subtle and as gentle as I can in describing it in the hopes of not being misunderstood.

What distinguishes moral judgement from, let's call it legal policy or law, is that one of these two is forcefully implemented in order to make people act a certain way with punishment being forced upon the disobedient. Antinatalism, for me at least, is fascinating because it touches on a binary choice where both choices do not carry any drastic legal consequences while still retaining massive moral, existential, social, and economic implications on a large scale. It's what determines whether the human species will continue propagating towards the future or not, and whether that propagation is justified given the suffering it leaves in its wake. That is the undeniable issue that lies at the core of antinatalism.

The gist of what I'm trying to say is that moral choices that do not carry drastic legal implications (although they are a very small category of choices, like whether your diet is vegan or not, whether you'll reproduce or not, whether you'll adopt or donate, how much you should donate to the poor, whether you'll commit suicide given you might make loved ones suffer, whether voluntary euthanasia should be allowed to all which it absolutely should be, whether you should divorce if you have kids, whether you should commit suicide if you want to but you have kids who still depend on you, stuff like that) aren't universal, absolute or, most importantly, oppressive (except for the one about legalizing euthanasia since, if you can spot that, it's the only choice involving drastic legal consequences and hence is oppressive to us prochoicers. Apart from divorce where the law only acts as an instrument and does not influence the personal choice itself, same with adoption). They are subjective choices and they cannot be generalized or implemented in a practical manner due to their sheer logistical complexity and impracticality. We are all very divided on these matters, that's where this complexity stems from. It's unfathomably weird how much our opinions differ in these matters.

Antinatalism absolutely does not force its choices on other people, it only demands that people should view and evaluate life through the lens of negative ethics and it has arguments that support that. That's different from saying that antinatalism forces people to refrain from procreating, that's absolutely false. It only demands that you judge reproduction as unethical given some particular set of claims and arguments which you might not accept, which is totally fine since these claims aren't absolute. But, my view in antinatalism is unwavering since I personally can't find any arguments that are capable of leaving so much as a dent, but again that's my opinion. And an opinion that is used to justify moral choices like the ones we're currently dealing with don't warrant or justify punishing people who don't agree with it. Antinatalism or any moral philosophical position for that matter is absolutely not as mechanistic as crime and punishment. We're not In a fucking court is what I'm trying to say lol.

In the end, antinatalism forces you to take a specific view of morality - a negative utilitarian one. This makes a huge difference from claiming that antinatalism forces you to refrain from procreation. It does not do that, it demands that you view the act of procreating itself as unethical. That's why some ignorant people claim that antinatalists are eugenicists or something. Eugenicists aren't interested in morality, they want a super breed of humans through a process that involves forced sterilization legislated by the law and selective breeding of those who are determined to be fit by standards that whatever nazi-like government set up. Arriving at a decision through the discussion of morality is what characterizes a lot of the philosophical discourse around these ethics topics. That's way different from being oppressed by choices that influence the laws which guide and restrict our actions.

And what if Antinatalism actually claims that you should refrain from procreating directly, it does not demand that those who reproduce be punished. In fact it can't, because antinatalism is negative utilitarian. It is anti suffering by definition, so it will just force you to minimize the suffering of your offspring. Why can't people see how delicate, empathetic, and forgiving antinatalism is lol.

That's a really good post. I'm not going to even attempt to match it only answer that last part. As a philosophy it might be but these things normally look good. What's peoples real motivation for following it is where I become cynical. Plenty of people seem to care a hell of a lot about the unborn whilst showing little concern for those already here. Something doesn't ring true

 

[puppet_nihilist]

That's a really good post. I'm not going to even attempt to match it only answer that last part. As a philosophy it might be but these things normally look good. What's peoples real motivation for following it is where I become cynical. Plenty of people seem to care a hell of a lot about the unborn whilst showing little concern for those already here. Something doesn't ring true

I absolutely agree with that. Especially how sometimes people bend and twist the logic behind these ideas for their own personal gain. Like justifying hate against another group or thinking that they're the baseline for opinions. Discarding their empathy towards others just because they don't share their beliefs too. But well, I like to call that philosophical immaturity lmao.

 

[ITSCHRISHERE123]

I feel so angry at my parents for bringing me into this world. I just hate them and don't even care anymore. I'm done with everything and I wish more than anything that it was all over. That's all I want is to just go die and go to that void of existence. Everything in my life is a problem and life itself is worthless and dreadful. My god damn parents are just wanting to lock me up for being unhappy. They're "tired of putting up with my crap" and my mom said I'm a psycopath worse than my elementary school principal who bullied me. I will not be writing that little bitch a goodbye note. Theres a lot of things I wanted in this life that will just never come to pass. I wanted to be skinny, I wanted to be a succesful graphic designer, I wanted a nice condo at meadow brook park by my house. But none of that was ever going to happen anyways. I just don't think this life is worth living. Every time I try to live it I just end up gaining weight or one of my friends ditches me or something else goes wrong. I'm tired all the time and everyone is done with me. No one even wants to say good-bye. ...this life makes me sick, this life is dead to me.

I am DONE.

I don't talk to my parents anymore because there pieces of shit. But yes because I didn't get a choice to be here

 

[trewer]

I don't hate my parents and I'm not angry with them. But I wish they didn't, and I would never have kids myself.

 

[Numbtopain97]

Yes

 

[patheticpartner]

I used to, but I no longer blame my parents. As much as I didn't choose to be born, they didn't choose to specifically have me either. They just wanted to nourish and love something other than themselves. It's no one's fault that I ended up being a miserable waste of a human, except maybe my own.

 

[sanction]

I absolutely hate them for it. When I do CTB, I actually feel they deserve to suffer from the pain of my exit. Just want to CTB asap, but going through with it is such a difficult thing. I truly wish I was never ever born

 

[seeking2learn]

No

 

[ormaybeyoucouldchill]

Yes. It blows my mind that there are, apparently, suicidal people that don't.

I wish I didn't. My parents have supported me through most of my issues. Without them, I would be homeless. But any joy they've brought to my life is completely outweighed by the pain that came with the life that they have forced me into.

My conversations (or arguments) with them about Voluntary Assisted Dying associations have left me with a feeling that I don't know how to describe. "Hate" isn't a strong enough word.