Discussion Do you believe you are mentally ill

[BlackDragonof1989]

I love everything you write but especially this. Well said!

I agree, this is a really well-written post which articulates my experience better than I feel I could myself. There have been so many amazingly articulate and lovely posts in this thread <3

Edit: Oops I mean FTL wanderer's post. Ah I'm high and confused no excuse <3

 

[406metallicblue]

On the one hand, humans (like any other animal) are "programed" by evolution to seek pleasure over pain, and survival over annihilation.
As such, suicidality must be a symptom of a malfunctioning brain, right?

On the other hand, suicide seems a perfectly rational option in some cases--not to mention desirable.

Just curious what others think.

I think it's both of these things at work, which is why it's such a hard thing to do. There's the logic brain and the instinct brain at odds with each other.

Mental illness requires a norm of mental wellness to justify itself. Psychiatry has its own pretty strict definition of what mental wellness is. A person functioning normally in a statistical sense and not being depressed by life, who rationalises things in a way that conform with the working of normal society. However, i know quite a few people who keep their shit together ie work, have relationships, go about their business etc but who have seriously fucked up ways of perceiving the world, from my point of view. For example, someone who mistreats animals for me has a severe mental illness but psychiatry isn't interested in something like that unless the individual can't cope with their life. Usually such people cope with life pretty well and we live in a society where mistreatment of animals is more or less acceptable. To a vegetarian, eating meat might constitute mental illness.

Another thread might be set up dealing with animal welfare and human behavior with regard to mental illness. For me, psychiatry and mental illness has more to do with social norms, a lot of which can be questioned.

 

[RM5998]

I'm not qualified to diagnose myself, and I can't really afford therapy where I live. In any case, it's not exactly worth the effort. I'm already dead, the meat's bound to catch up soon.

In any case, I'm not exactly on the side of psychology and psychiatry as they are reported to be practiced. By Popper's critical rationalist theory, they are pseudoscience. I haven't seen much of the theory of psychology and psychiatry presented as experimentally falsifiable theory - although, admittedly, I haven't read many recent publications on the theoretical basis of either field. While they do have medical value, they don't really deserve to be treated with the same degree of reliability as the rest of medicinal science.

 

[ShadowOfTheDay]

I'm not qualified to diagnose myself, and I can't really afford therapy where I live. In any case, it's not exactly worth the effort. I'm already dead, the meat's bound to catch up soon.

In any case, I'm not exactly on the side of psychology and psychiatry as they are reported to be practiced. By Popper's critical rationalist theory, they are pseudoscience. I haven't seen much of the theory of psychology and psychiatry presented as experimentally falsifiable theory - although, admittedly, I haven't read many recent publications on the theoretical basis of either field. While they do have medical value, they don't really deserve to be treated with the same degree of reliability as the rest of medicinal science.

This I do agree with. I won't yet go as far as to say psychiatry is pseudoscience, but so much of what passes as "evidence based" psychiatry is based solely on trial and error (I.e. this percentage of individuals seem to have shown signs of recovery following ____ treatment regimen. Therefore this constitutes evidence in favour of said treatment). That is a load of bullshit, I think; and that is not how science works. I do think that many modern scientific studies lack a philosophical underpinning, and people would be well-advised to know how to spot pseudoscience in all of it's diversity. Critical thinking must always be employed: post-hoc. Ergo Procter hoc.

 

[deathplease]

I know I am, but I don't want to completely admit it. I'm in a sense of denial I suppose. I have CPTSD (complex post traumatic stress disorder), amongst other diagnoses, so part of me blames that on my issues, and the people who caused me to become this way. Some of these people are my own family, unfortunately. My own mother told me recently that she has accepted that she might find me dead one day. Kind of put things into perspective of how my existence has impacted people.

 

[LivingToLong]

But there's good evidence cognition changes with life experiences.

I was reading recently of life experience becoming genetically encoded and passed on to offspring. The research (I was reading) involved holocaust survivors and it was suggested that the genetic changes that resulted from the experience could be passed on (that's contentious apparently btw) This has broader implications, for less traumatic experience. For instance, people brought up in poverty and famine etc. They're not talking physical health factors here (it's perhaps self-evident that the children of physically ill parents - or smokers or of poor diet - will not have the best of starts), we're talking about a genetic encoding; being born with, say, a 'stress gene' as a result of your parents life experiences. *

Yet more ways to 'blame the parents' it seems!

* I've not explained that at all clearly I fear. Sorry, my brain's cloudy.

I am troubled by the classification and patholigizing of atypical personalities.

I've mentioned elsewhere that my interest is language, so I tend to come at questions of 'classification' from a linguistic perspective. A broad question posed here was what is 'mental illness'. I tend to reverse engineer this type of question from within a linguistic paradigm. First, a bit of groundwork...

When people say something they generally intend to mean something. The meaning of words is not fixed, we don't share the same dictionary. And words differ in meaning - sometimes significantly and sometimes subtly - in different contexts. And then there's obviously confusion and sometimes ignorance (I don't mean that in a pejorative way btw, nobody knows everything) In short, I feel that many arguments are grounded in misunderstanding and are not disagreement at a fundamental level. That is, simply misunderstanding HOW someone is using a word, what context they have and their knowledge of that word might lead someone else to the conclusion of disagreement.

In this case, I start by saying 'mental illness' means something. It has to mean something because that is what the person speaking/typing intended - so I look for the 'something' if/when it's not the one that I have. That something will differ from person to person. A clinical psychiatrist, for instance, will have their definition and the person on the couch yet another. And the lay person yet another. Each meaning is 'true' as defined by its context and as the speaker intended. (Btw, people obviously can lie but that's not what I mean here) In short, I think understanding someone involves finding their 'truth'... then you can disagree with that if you like ;)

Actually, you can disagree with them (or me) anytime you like! I've dissolved my world and I no longer know what is and what isn't. Besides, it's not for me to tell anyone anything! I just like a quiet life and disagreeing with anyone is too much like hard work. :)

 

[BaconCheeseburger]

I believe there's something seriously wrong with my brain and that no matter what happens in life I'll always come back to this feeling. This is my 'default' feeling and urge to die

 

[LivingToLong]

This is my 'default' feeling and urge to die

I feel I have a 'default' setting as well. To me, happiness is an elevated state and one from which I KNOW I will fall back from, and so there are shadows even on my good days. Those shadows being fear of the fall back to my default mode. I too am tired of living with that.

 

[406metallicblue]

Someone once said that only boring people get bored, i used to think this might be true. With time however, i disagree. As as been mentioned above, it's the default setting. In theory i have many interests i play the guitar, i do creative things and make friends. But life is boring. It's the existential loneliness that is the default setting and i've been battling to find a way to deal with it for 20 years. The drugs don't help with this issue at all, or chats with psychiatrists. You can talk all the talk with anyone you like, it comes down to one's relationship with the universe. If your brain isn't wired right, it isn't wired right. How do you know it isn't wired right? You can just feel it every day.

So the logical person will try to find a way of making it right, you could try religion, changing country, relationships etc. Try everything possible to get connected. Whatever works, if nothing works very well then you end up here.

 

[Hoid]

I think mental illness is definitely a real, tangible problem for some people. I've met a lot of people who, from both my own observations and from what they themselves have told me, have brains that just don't function the way that they are supposed to. And the medications and therapy can work wonders for them sometimes. But I have also seen that mental health "professionals" are far too quick to attribute any variance in behavior to a mental disorder. There is a flat-out refusal to acknowledge the fact that suicidality and a negative outlook on life can be a rational and natural response to shitty circumstances. Most of the people that I've met being treated for "major depressive disorder" have really good reasons for not liking the world around them. They would almost have to be insane not to feel like shit. And I find it really fucking insulting and invalidating that society and the mental health industry would rather sweep these people under the rug by labeling them irrational and mentally ill, rather than accept that this world has an absurd number of problems and that life is not always such a grand fucking picnic. And even for the people who have genuine, neurochemical problems, the expert approach for treatment that I have seen from psychiatrists is still to just throw random medications at people and hope that something sticks. There's no careful diagnosis and precision treatment so I think calling psychiatry "science" or "modern medicine" is being overly generous.

 

[color_me_gone]

retardopists

A new word for my vocabulary - thank you!
BTW, I agree completely with your post.

 

[I am ___________]

I realize most people think there's something wrong with you for feeling as you do, but I agree with your sentiment. Why should it be "right" or "good" to feel a certain way about a piece of music or a poem or ... the experiences of life? And just because most people like Band X doesn't mean someone who doesn't is "wrong." That should be one of the most obvious conclusions. Life is full of pain and savagery--yes, some of us are preoccupied with that a lot more than others, but for good reasons. So what's wrong with, after having lived through wars or extreme violence..., concluding that life is for you a bad thing? No one anywhere--not religious leaders, not professional philosophers, not staunch humanists, not mental health professionals, not doctors, and certainly not average people full of their own opinions EVER answers this question for me in any remotely sound way. So we're "crazy" because we have a perspective of life most people don't like. How the hell did that ever become objectivity and sound reasoning (rhetorical)?

Indeed.

A new word for my vocabulary - thank you!
BTW, I agree completely with your post.

Whenever someone mentions psychiatrists or therapists that is the word that comes to mind, as they do not know what they are talking about and are nothing but professional liars looking to make a quick buck off someone who does not know any better. They are essentially con artists, snakes and I hate snakes.

 

[color_me_gone]

Whenever someone mentions psychiatrists or therapists that is the word that comes to mind, as they do not know what they are talking about and are nothing but professional liars looking to make a quick buck off someone who does not know any better. They are essentially con artists, snakes and I hate snakes.

❤❤❤

 

[CornerE]

IMO .. if your life is a living hell no matter what you do to fix things up .
with that horrible world screwing most of us over ..
you should be mentally ill to choose to survive and stick around voluntarily.

who - in a right mind - would do that to himself .
That's just plain masochism .

 

[dandan]

why do you write so much FTL.Wanderer? Wait.... I dont want to know.....

Mentally ill? No, my psychiatrist says im only in denial of reality ....

Mentally ill? Yes, who would want to kill himself , if not mentally ill? well maybe my mother after I ctb, if I ctb. which is a struggle

in reality, who knows? probably

 

[CornerE]

It just happens that life isn't "aware" and so has no interest in providing things like justice, legal access and equity, or security--things many modern people, at least, have been conditioned to yearn for. If there were, as I think there should be, a painless, non-intimidating, nearly instant, widely available and affordable euthanasia means (like state clinics...), I'd never have made it out of my early 20's. And I feel no shame whatsoever about that.

I agree with every word you said specially that part .

Sometimes I feel like - of all rights denied to most humans - denying the right to take one's own life and fighting free choice to the end , is the most clear evidence to prove how sick and sadistic human mobs are .
they wouldn't even let you leave in peace .

I kind of agree. I don't think those 2 disciplines are per se "pseudoscientific" but the approach surely is.
The brain is a thing, studying it is science, it's not the same thing as, for example, demonology, wich "studies" things that are not real.

I'd say that modern psychiatry is to scientific understanding of the human brain what alchemy is to chemistry.

Not to mention that religious like dogma are always a negative thing to scientific progress, and psychiatrists generally have some.
Take Galileo Galilei for example.
"The Earth revolves around the Sun"
"No, you can't say that 'cuz muh Bible".
Same thing for those charlatans.
"Suicide is sometimes the most rational solution"
"No, you can't say that 'cuz muh life is beautiful".

This is why I don't take diagnosis too seriously. Major depressive disorder for example, what do we know about it?
Well it seems to be correlated with
-abnormalities in the serotoninergic system
-abnormalities in the noradrenergic system
-abnormalities in the dopaminergic system
-abnormalities in the opioidergic system
-abnormalities in the glutamatergic system
-abnormalities in the GABAergic system
-some hormonal imbalances
-some genes that we don't really know what are there for
-lack of production of some chemicals like ademethionine
-inflammation
-abnormalities in the amygdala and hyppocampus
-trauma
-rejection
-isolation
-physical pain
-brain injury
-sunlight exposition
-diet
-sedentary life
-the fuckin' bacteria in your guts
-and a shitton of other things.

They're basically labelling hundreds of different things with the same name and act surprised when a medication that is supposed to fix a chemical imbalance that you may very well not have doesn't work.

FFS really, all the psychiatrists I've met are a bunch of buffoons.

can't agree more .
you totally nailed it .. Respect .

 

[Pulpit2018]

I have mild OCD,but no i dont think i am mentally ill.What does that mean after all?
That said,i am worn down and less functional the last couple years.
As for psychiatry,i can call it a field of study,but science?Not a chance.

 

[AnnihilatedAnna]

Indeed.


Whenever someone mentions psychiatrists or therapists that is the word that comes to mind, as they do not know what they are talking about and are nothing but professional liars looking to make a quick buck off someone who does not know any better. They are essentially con artists, snakes and I hate snakes.

I don't agree with you, some therapist and psychiatrist are, sure. But definitely not all of them. That a couple of em are bad doesn't mean all of them are.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Sometimes I feel like - of all rights denied to most humans - denying the right to take one's own life and fighting free choice to the end , is the most clear evidence to prove how sick and sadistic human mobs are .
they wouldn't even let you leave in peace .

True dat!

 

[Fucking loving it]

I'm mentally ill. My brain is fucked. My actions and moods are so erratic. I'm at war with myself. It's fucking exhausting. I'm just fucking tired.

 

[TreatmentDidntWork]

I definitely think I'm mentally ill. After all, what's the likelihood of all the therapists and doctors I've seen over the past decade being wrong?

Also, I don't think a "normal" person would want to kill themselves in my situation. I'm not in chronic pain, I'm not living on the street.. my life is pretty adequate, objectively.

 

[Umbra]

Humans have the ability to make conscious, rational thought. Even if our instincts tell us to live we may determine that it'd be better to not be here. Other animals aren't capable of that, no other animal has killed themselves over thinking it'd be better over living. Although I have no doubt some mental illnesses make people more prone to suicide. Although I believe I do have mental illnesses that contribute little to how much I value my life.

 

[Memento Mori]

Thank you for writing this tonight, it's like I'm in a haze but the misery loves company vibe feels very good right now I hope that doesn't come off wrong. Soul spirit hahaha animals <3

oh didnt get a notice about your reply. lol yeah am going totally insane the last days, sometimes i post my shit here in the hope that no one does misunderstand it. it's too hard to describe all this shit in my mind, my experiences, my pain, my life...it's very strange and it got worth dying for, but i think many people on ss do suffer way more than me, at least physical. i'm broken but i still can do it for 10 or more years if i do the right job and go for enough training, but if i continue like that right now, i'm either landing in hospital some day with my 100 glitches (without health insurance) or i'll just get a heart attack. i'm destroyed and i still didn't visit a doctor for my 50 new body glitches lol am just living with them, waiting to die or live, waiting for someone or something to decide for me...i know whats wrong with me but i dont know all of it. but i feel like ppl who take dxm for some time or longer, they articulate a very strange and not understandable way to write...i'm writing crazy too, not exactly similar, but i really understand what they want to say with incoherently sentences. i wonder why...

well i guess after one is reading this he can be sure that i'm mentally ill :D or am i...already forgot everything i wrote in this second, drugs are kicking in hard...but i have way too less to ctb with it :( would be so nice and easy if you don't want to ctb and just go for the ultimate trip, and at some moment it kicks your lights out and that's it. goodbye

 

[Roberto]

On the one hand, humans (like any other animal) are "programed" by evolution to seek pleasure over pain, and survival over annihilation.
As such, suicidality must be a symptom of a malfunctioning brain, right?

On the other hand, suicide seems a perfectly rational option in some cases--not to mention desirable.

Just curious what others think.

Animals also suicides:

Animal suicide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RottenOdysseus]

I'm 100% mentally ill. With what, idk, even professionals give me radically different answers for whats wrong with me. All I know is that I'm not NT and it sucks.

 

[Roberto]

Mentally ill my whole life but still often more rational than a lot of people who are 'healthy'.

I don't know if I'm ill. I just can't cope with life and I can't have a life. I'm counting the years to be nearer of death.
Psychology is trying to 'become' a science. The problem in psychology of not being able to reproduce the same results it is a matter that some people can think is a pseudo-science.

Calling entire fields of science fake. There's plenty of evidence I just don't think the poster has been exposed to it. I don't want to tell you what you should think. That's the good thing about science it doesn't tell you what to think. It proves the truth to you ...

Are you drunk or are you bipolar? Do you want a fight? harm yourself? I've never seen you this way.
Are you a psychologist? If you were, you wouldn't dismiss his words.
It's not the way to talk to a person that has the same problems as you. We should support one each other. Please try to be more constructive. We are all in this shitty problem.

 

[JWL]

Do you believe you are mentally ill

No, but everyone else is...

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

I definitely think I'm mentally ill. After all, what's the likelihood of all the therapists and doctors I've seen over the past decade being wrong?

Also, I don't think a "normal" person would want to kill themselves in my situation. I'm not in chronic pain, I'm not living on the street.. my life is pretty adequate, objectively.

Most doctors before the late 1970's advised patients to smoke cigarettes as a healthy, effective way to counter anxiety. As the public began noticing reality differed from doctors' claims, the tobacco industry fought back hard, hiring doctors to support the pro-smoking platform. And even when international biomedical evidence linking tobacco use and various cancers was overwhelming, the tobacco industry lobbyists were successful for decades YET duping the public. There's no necessary link between what professionals feel and what's true. Only hard biomedical evidence can substantiate illness claims. I'd love to see this evidence in support of the standing model of physiological disease as the cause of "mental illness."

More, and I say this with the utmost of respect for all your and others' prerogatives, there isn't a single rigorous or "good" philosophical reason anyone must want to remain alive. We likely want to remain alive due largely to conserved evolutionary neurological, cognitive factors--not because of any necessary philosophically sound justification.

Sorry to butt in, but the pervasive medical (and therefore scientific) assumptions and poor cause-effect reasoning of psychiatry really need to be called out. I'm really, really glad you're not out on the street and have some life comforts. Hope you figure everything out as best for you. (Also, hope I didn't offend you.)

​

https://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/news/print/hemonc-today/{241d62a7-fe6e-4c5b-9fed-a33cc6e4bd7c}/cigarettes-were-once-physician-tested-approved

 

[JWL]

Most doctors before the late 1970's advised patients to smoke cigarettes as a healthy, effective way to counter anxiety. As the public began noticing reality differed from doctors' claims, the tobacco industry fought back hard, hiring doctors to support the pro-smoking platform. And even when international biomedical evidence linking tobacco use and various cancers was overwhelming, the tobacco industry lobbyists were successful for decades YET duping the public. There's no necessary link between what professionals feel and what's true. Only hard biomedical evidence can substantiate illness claims. I'd love to see this evidence in support of the standing model of physiological disease as the cause of "mental illness."

More, and I say this with the utmost of respect for all your and others' prerogatives, there isn't a single rigorous or "good" philosophical reason anyone must want to remain alive. We likely want to remain alive due largely to conserved evolutionary neurological, cognitive factors--not because of any necessary philosophically sound justification.

Sorry to butt in, but the pervasive medical (and therefore scientific) assumptions and poor cause-effect reasoning of psychiatry really need to be called out. I'm really, really glad you're not out on the street and have some life comforts. Hope you figure everything out as best for you. (Also, hope I didn't offend you.)

View attachment 9018​

https://www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/news/print/hemonc-today/{241d62a7-fe6e-4c5b-9fed-a33cc6e4bd7c}/cigarettes-were-once-physician-tested-approved

But smoking was good for anxiety, relaxation. It just wasn't good for cancer.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

But smoking was good for anxiety, relaxation. It just wasn't good for cancer.

The examples of old advertisements depict physicians making health claims that were patently false--for example that there weren't cases of throat irritation from cigarette smoking. As early as the 1920's British and American epidemiological journals were publishing sharp rises in incidence of throat and upper bronchial irritation statistically among smokers.

And the anti-anxiety claims are representative of classic short-term reasoning fallacies. Medical scientists were also publishing papers showing the supposed calming effects of smoking were very short-lived, dissipating quickly once the active compounds worked through users' systems--on the order of minutes to an hour--compelling many to use more and more cigarettes until the anti-anxiety intervention blossomed for most into an addiction.

Other medical evidence was published as early as the '30's about the association between smoking and hypertension, peripheral neuropathy, and, notably, sexual dysfunction (especially in men). Scientists knew cigarettes only appeared to relax people but that the physiological evidence was to the contrary (increased BP, constriction of blood vessels, capillary permeability changes).

Last, smoking for decades before the US government mandated a warning label was also scientifically linked to other disease prevalence besides cancer. Yet doctors were still advising patients to smoke because many of them were just as duped as the general public by the financial interest groups promoting smoking.

Similarly poor reasoning underlies the psychiatric (and clinical psychological) and psychotropic pharmaceutical industries. It's even worse among these because, unlike with nicotine..., mental health "scholars" don't even know what the physical substrates implicated in their pathology models are. Yet nearly everyone bandies about terms like "mentally ill" and "crazy" and "sick" as if these words corresponded to scientific truths.

Sorry for long reply.