Discussion Do you believe in Rational suicide

[Ms nobody]

Do you think rational suicide exists or do you believe that suicidal tendencies are a result of mental disfunction?

 

[Tikva]

Everything "rational" is also emotionally involved. We are usually oblivious to that, which is okay. There are links to cognitive and suicidal tendencies, not only in human, but also in animals (whales for example). Plus, everyone is experiencing that will in different ways. In my case, I wish the pain to stop - I view it as emotionally heartbreaking, AND chemically imbalances in my neurological conditions. I also want to put another emphasis, that with myself I make a hard distinction between "wanting to not live" and "wanting to die". The latter is not relevant to me, in a "rational" way. And still, at least for now, our view on this (scientifically speaking) is so limited that those sentences are almost synonymous. Alongside those feelings you can always have a love for part of your life, and hope. I have the love not the hope tho lol I'm sorry for blabbering. Stating reality as rational vs delusional usually doesn't work for me at least, maybe others can share their thoughts

 

[Rational man]

From my point of view and by my name, i have thought it through endlessly and plan to exit this life before my illness kills me. I plan legal assistance hopefully in UK when it becomes legalised but i also have plan B. My thoughts are that i choose to die with dignity and not die a painful protracted death as i have seen with so many people. Besides, the state of the NHS, some patients are suffering terribly anyhow so im doing the care service a big favour. I think the choice to cease living needs much-needed self-reflection, thoughts, consequences, etc. Too many people ctb in a spontaneous manor, when solutions could have been found in life. In my case, my body will die eventually, sooner than i had wished for. Im not unstable or mentally ill. I was just handed a crap card. I wish you wellness.❤

 

[kwho]

Do you think rational suicide exists or do you believe that suicidal tendencies are a result of mental disfunction?

It absolutely does exist. But suicide is only regarded as the result of mental disfunction by so called "mental health professionals" and people in general.

Which i find quite irritating for many reasons.

But someone also said that "it is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a sick society", and from that point of view anyone not having suicidal thouhts is actually the mentally unwell one.

If you are decent person who thinks honestly and doesn't have the tendency to habitually hide your head in the sand so to speak - what conclusions will your mind inevitably reach?

And especially a rational person, when faced with a completely irrational circumstances that cannot be transformed through any rational means, can eventually acquire a "mental disfunction". Or choose the rational solution - to exit the madhouse.

 

[macrocosm]

Do you think rational suicide exists or do you believe that suicidal tendencies are a result of mental disfunction?

I don't know what that term means. Suicide is suicide. There's no "belief" required. Whether it's a result of mental health, or cultural (look up seppuku) or other circumstances. Technically to make a choice after studied thought is rational. The act of suicide is always rational in my opinion, since it's a deliberate choice made after thought, even if the reasons may not be.

 

[Bobert_Beniro]

I think SI is irrational. Just think, your desire to die is quite justified, whether it be chronic illness, poverty or ugliness. So why should SI interfere in this case if the reasons for leaving are obvious

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Yes. My suicide is very much rational and logical. Coping in my situation is neither.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yes- I absolutely think rational suicide is possible. It may not look rational to other people. In that person's circumstances- they may have made a different decision. We are entitled to make our own decisions in life though. Even if others believe those decisions to be unwise. So long as it is a decision based on reasoning- the person has made a rational decision.

That's not to say some suicides aren't impulsive- or- come out of a very extreme but transitory emotion. I suppose it is possible to CTB impulsively in a manic state.

When it comes to mental illness though- it's hard to judge. I'm not a psychologist. I wouldn't say I was severley mentally ill though. I likely have mild to moderate depression at most but if i do- I've had it all my life pretty much. Even when things are going better in life for me- suicide doesn't seem like a terrible option (for me personally- not in terms of how it might affect others.) Life's difficult and I have no real desire to make it better for myself.

Plus- a large number of people KNOW they are mentally ill. Many have tried to get treatment- with varying degrees of success. If they've found their way to a site like this- presumably the treatment hasn't been entirely successful! They may well themselves attribute their ideation to their mental illness- but- if their mental illness isn't responding to treatment- what are they supposed to do? Why is it considered rational for someone with chronic physical pain to want out of it via suicide in extreme cases- but the same allowance isn't given to people with chronic mental illness?

If we go with the assumption that to even consider suicide, you have to be either chronically physically ill- and if you're not- then, there must be some chronic mental illness there- then- it ought to be the same rules. If treatment doesn't work- isn't it in fact rational to think- Screw this! I've had enough. Also- we don't HAVE to accept treatment for physical illness- we CAN refuse it. Why are people with so-called mental illnesses expected to put in the effort to get better?

 

[FuneralCry]

The reality is that wanting to die could never be an "illness", that's just an insensitive pro-life delusional belief that is used to try and deny people the right to die. I think if people actually believe that then they have been brainwashed and lack awareness. Wanting suicide is always rational in this world, in fact it's the most rational decision that one can make in such a harmful and chaotic world that is filled with endless risks and unlimited potential for suffering and torment.

Wanting suicide is a perfectly logical response to having awareness of the fact that existence is nothing more than just an unnecessary harm, to me it makes sense not wanting to be a slave, as to exist means to be slaves to our suffering, slaves to our decaying flesh prison and slaves to our needs, to me it's absurd to actually want to delay the inevitable and suffer in the process. We are all destined for nowhere but to die anyway so to me it makes sense wishing to take control over my inevitable fate and solve all problems, preventing worthless and meaningless suffering in the process.

Existence is just a futile, unnecessary struggle that is the most tragic consequence of evolution, for me existence itself is the true problem that can only be solved by death. And at the end of the day if someone was to die now or in decades time, it really wouldn't make that much difference, other than all future suffering would be prevented, there are no disadvantages to not existing anyway so of course suicide is always rational, it's truly irrational to want to be tortured by old age and that's all that existing leads to. All that is inevitable is even more suffering, loss and decay after all, which is something completely undesirable, existence repulses me.

 

[Rational man]

Do you think rational suicide exists or do you believe that suicidal tendencies are a result of mental disfunction?

To add further, who defines how anything is rational apart from our own interpretation? The sanctity of life is clearly fake news. Seriously, in the midst of global wars, politicians and church representatives attempt to further control us by spewing out this ' godlike ' talk..how tragic that humanity clings to the notion of an omnipresent god who does not intervene to stop wars but punishes the sinners even before we arrive in purgatory. And that politicians know full well that thousands of young people have died in the wars, whilst proclaiming the sanctity of life to sure-up their crumbling empires. There's evilness in this world and there's alot of scamming and false prophets.

 

[stilhavinightmares]

I think it absolutely can be rational. I believe in the majority of cases, it isn't, but it can be. I wish so much that society would agree.

 

[Little_Suzy]

Death does exist.
Suicide results in death.
Death + Death = Dead

There is no "sick & cured" or "sick & dead" with mental illness.
Mental illness = Disability

Choices
(1) Dead
(2) Disabled

If you choose being dead over being disabled = Suicide is a Rational Choice

 

[Suicidе]

Suicide can never be irrational as long as suffering exists

 

[stilhavinightmares]

Death does exist.
Suicide results in death.
Death + Death = Dead

There is no "sick & cured" or "sick & dead" with mental illness.
Mental illness = Disability

Choices
(1) Dead
(2) Disabled

If you choose being dead over being disabled = Suicide is a Rational Choice

I fucking love this. Thank you.

 

[FrostedHoax]

Yes, chronic pain and terminal illness are two very valid reasons for wanting to end things that alot of people (even some people in the anti-suicide crowd) can agree as being rational reasons for wanting to die. I don't personally agree with the idea of suicide being "irrational" because of mental illness though, unless it really is an impulsive spur of the moment decision that wasn't pre-mediated or planned out on whatsoever. I think the only test for "rationality" that's valid is whether the person is sober or not and whether they really spent time putting actual thought into the decision and aren't just choosing to do it out of the blue.

 

[unnormal9]

No. Factually suicide does not need a reason, just a working method. Peaceful methods depends on the self preference.

 

[RoseKamar]

Yes, i believe in rational suicide, both with illness and not.

If someone is chronically ill and chooses death on his own volition as the better option, that is a rational decision.
If someone is well settled, no issues, no emotional outburst, no actual mental illness and CTBs in a way that isn't implusive, that also looks like a rational decision to me.

I know two of those cases. Two men who had everything going for them in life (besides having kids) and who planned their own death, one of them even planned his funeral. The only way how this could have not been a rational conscious decision would be if they had some "hidden mental illness" that "destroyed them from the inside while hiding it to others" and "got them to do it on impulse" - which is the common normie cope, but i do not believe that.
In both of those cases i think that they saw no reason to continue living. If there is either a reason to CTB (chronical illness that makes your life hell) or a lack of reason for living, it's both a rational decision.

An irrational decision would be someone who is on drugs or a schizophrenic having an outburst and doing it, while he wouldn't have done it otherwise.

 

[Braindead Atheist]

Oh hell yeah. I've looked logically at the benefits and draw backs of me killing myself for awhile. I came to the conclusion that dying is better than living and everyone who thinks I'm be irrational, unreasonable, or psychotic, can go fuck themselves. I don't think its fair for me to have to stay when I can't even make a living. Every job is the same story. I'm either bullied, fired or both. Why?! Adhd symptoms. To top it off, my dreams of being a designer were shattered and there's no way to make it happen. So if there's nothing here for me, then why should I stay?! To please other people?! Most of them would move on and forget it in a couple years at the most. They want me here because I make them happy, but I know if most people knew how I really felt they would just ditch me or shut me down.

so I don't see why I should think of them. It makes sense logically that there's no real reason to stay. I've been through 20 years of hell and I JUST turned 24. I had dreams to make something of it all and be a designer.

I was told I'd do something special with my art. But none of that ever happened. Instead I get to watch everyone else's dreams come true while I deal with more and more bs. Best case scenario Ill live off state disability. Worst case, homeless. Nothing good can come of me staying.

So yeah, I think I've thought this through a lot. When there's nothing in it for you then you know you're being reasonable.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Sucide can only be rational because it's a legal option if one wants to leave this world for whatever reasons they may have. Those reasons that make a suicide for oneself rational are as individual as there are individuals out there. Still the problem with SI kicking in still persists but that has nothing to do with being rational.

 

[offbalance]

Do you think rational suicide exists or do you believe that suicidal tendencies are a result of mental disfunction?

Ok I'm on the fence about this because while I know a fair bit about philosophical pessimism/antinatalism/how life is overall a net negative etc I feel like my willingness to CTB still kind of depends on what mood I'm in/brain chemistry. "Normal" people supposedly have good brain chemistry and are willing to go on. A reason I'm still here… It's true that being "high" on antidepressants or whatever chemical assistant all the time is unfulfilling and unsustainable. but I still think there's some truth to what I say. Just speaking for myself that is. Idk life is overall ugly regardless

 

[willitpass]

Plus- a large number of people KNOW they are mentally ill. Many have tried to get treatment- with varying degrees of success. If they've found their way to a site like this- presumably the treatment hasn't been entirely successful! They may well themselves attribute their ideation to their mental illness- but- if their mental illness isn't responding to treatment- what are they supposed to do? Why is it considered rational for someone with chronic physical pain to want out of it via suicide in extreme cases- but the same allowance isn't given to people with chronic mental illness?

If we go with the assumption that to even consider suicide, you have to be either chronically physically ill- and if you're not- then, there must be some chronic mental illness there- then- it ought to be the same rules. If treatment doesn't work- isn't it in fact rational to think- Screw this! I've had enough. Also- we don't HAVE to accept treatment for physical illness- we CAN refuse it. Why are people with so-called mental illnesses expected to put in the effort to get better?

As someone who has lived with severe mental illness for over 10 years, thank you for pointing all of these things out. I've been through every treatment option available multiple times over. Everyone in my life believes I'm in recovery now and I have not told them I'm unwell again because I can't fathom having to be forced to undergo the same traumatic treatments again. It's also why I haven't CTB yet, Im scared to fail and be thrown into a mental hospital. I've been so sick for so long, if I had cancer everyone would be telling me it's okay to let go, but because it's depression the only thing I get told is to keep fighting.

 

[compassionexitneed]

Absolutely ! There are very rational reasons that some want to ctb

 

[Pidgeons_Sparrows]

Mine is rational
Yes it exists

 

[Walilamdzii]

I think that it's rational.

 

[conarc]

It definetely is.

 

[TheWorld'sLeftovers]

Yes, I believe that rational suicide exists, as rational as humans can get anyways. Weigh the pros and cons of dying vs staying alive and making a full, informed decision would probably be enough to be a "rational suicide."
I feel like this also depends highly on culture. For example, in the west they see depression as a mental illness and needing to be treated, while in China they see depression as a symptom of low serotonin and will prescribe supplements for it.

 

[situationalsui]

100%

 

[CheekyPhobia]

It's often discredited as "irrational" but that's complete rubbish. On some subconscious level, we understand that things will never improve. No amount of hollow platitudes will change that reality. So we seek death, it's a natural instinct in our species that when circumstances become unbearable and it is clear there is no sign of improvement, then we seek to return to our source; to die. It's absolutely rational.

 

[I_Am_Trashman]

I think suicide to escape the pain born of "mental dysfunction" is rational especially when the "dysfunction" is a chronic condition.

 

[endofafoxtwo]

Many things which are bad are rational, many things that are good are irrational