do transphobes prove NPC theory?

[NaturalBornNEET]

It's as if they existentially freak out over having the status quo definition of reality questioned because they're barely conscious themselves, their whole existence is predicated on the current model of reality and when that goes out the window so do they. If you were actually a conscious being you would know that no matter how much your perceptions, reality, understanding gets warped, transmuted, changed, evolved, you're still going to be here, conscious.

Or maybe a better word for them would be philosophical cowards? It really does make the term "transphobe" fitting, as they seem to be genuinely terrified of them on an existential level.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I think all bigots are like that. So many of them base their entire view of the world on these incorrect ideals, so they bend over backwards to keep their beliefs—otherwise their understanding of themselves and the universe falls apart.

Bigots are inherently mentally weak in that way, afraid to have their beliefs challenged (no matter how much they claim to "enjoy good-faith debate")

 

[Pluto]

 

[Hvergelmir]

So, thanks to your higher level of awareness it's safe to assume that people not subscribing to your world view are bigots.
You on the other hand already have an accurate understanding the world, and can safely hold on to your views without concern.

What went wrong here? What was the purpose of the thread?

To answer the opening question, NPC theory is not a theory. You're dehumanizing people, justifying it by claiming to possess superior awareness. It's the kind of behavior fascists and cults engage in. I think it's fundamentally misguided.

 

[suicidesergal]

NPC theory of solopcisn with extra steps.

 

[NaturalBornNEET]

So, thanks to your higher level of awareness it's safe to assume that people not subscribing to your world view are bigots.
You on the other hand already have an accurate understanding the world, and can safely hold on to your views without concern.

What went wrong here? What was the purpose of the thread?

To answer the opening question, NPC theory is not a theory. You're dehumanizing people, justifying it by claiming to possess superior awareness. It's the kind of behavior fascists and cults engage in. I think it's fundamentally misguided.

You're right, NPC theory is dehumanizing and I shouldn't have used it. I'll rephrase: are transphobes cognitively underdeveloped compared to their non-bigot counterparts? I say yes.

 

[suicidesergal]

You're right, NPC theory is dehumanizing and I shouldn't have used it. I'll rephrase: are transphobes cognitively underdeveloped compared to their non-bigot counterparts? I say yes.

No. They are not.

What they are is ignorant and have incorrect models of the universe in their head and they can be fixed, but first must be willing to listen.

I would know.

 

[NaturalBornNEET]

So, thanks to your higher level of awareness it's safe to assume that people not subscribing to your world view are bigots.

It is not far fetched to say different people can have different levels of awareness, and I'm quite comfortable to say, yeah, I have more awareness than people worshipping fear.

You on the other hand already have an accurate understanding the world, and can safely hold on to your views without concern.

Ik you're being a sarcastic ass, but no. I do not have a perfectly accurate understanding of the world, and I will never ever allow myself to hold any view with absolute unquestioning conviction. I'm too self aware for that.

No. They are not.

What they are is ignorant and have incorrect models of the universe in their head and they can be fixed, but first must be willing to listen.

I would know.

cognitively underdeveloped does not mean unable to change. A child is cognitively underdeveloped, certain life conditions can hamper your cognitive development. Which is why third world countries are so underdeveloped compared to first world ones, when you're stuck in survival mode you don't really care about listening, you care about surviving.

 

[Hvergelmir]

I'll rephrase: are transphobes cognitively underdeveloped compared to their non-bigot counterparts?

The issue is not in the semantics, but that your argument relies on the assumption that your cognitive abilities are superior, and that others must submit.

It amounts to little more than you stating that the opposition are too stupid to think for themselves, and that they instead ought to let you dictate what they should think and feel. It's just not a working methodology, outside of a cultlike setting.

I'd argue that most transphobia can be treated with exposure therapy - but it must be exposure, resulting in positive experiences. Taunts and provocations, is what turns feelings of fear and disgust (phobia) into anger and aggression.
I think activists often gets that wrong.

 

[aimless_]

It's as if they existentially freak out over having the status quo definition of reality questioned because they're barely conscious themselves, their whole existence is predicated on the current model of reality and when that goes out the window so do they. If you were actually a conscious being you would know that no matter how much your perceptions, reality, understanding gets warped, transmuted, changed, evolved, you're still going to be here, conscious.

Or maybe a better word for them would be philosophical cowards? It really does make the term "transphobe" fitting, as they seem to be genuinely terrified of them on an existential level.

 

[NaturalBornNEET]

The issue is not in the semantics, but that your argument relies on the assumption that your cognitive abilities are superior, and that others must submit.

A lot of this is just assumed though, and assumed so because seeing me as being a pretentious asshat is an easy way to shut down what I'm saying. I should've explained myself better. I don't think my cognitive abilities are superior, I'm just wired to not be transphobic or really anything phobic (at least willingly and proudly).

I'd argue that most transphobia can be treated with exposure therapy - but it must be exposure, resulting in positive experiences. Taunts and provocations, is what turns feelings of fear and disgust (phobia) into anger and aggression.
I think activists often gets that wrong.

I don't know if that would solve the root issue. There are so many things conservative-minded people have learnt to tolerate throughout history as they've had no choice in the matter really. E.g. homosexuality is a lot more accepted now by conservatives, gender is their new boogeyman. And even if they do learn to tolerate transgenders within time, with the way their foundational paradigm of the world works, they'll just latch onto the newest foreign thing that threatens their identity.

My claim is transphobia, any phobia, is a symptom of an immature and underdeveloped mind. It's meant to offend, people should realize how ridiculous their fear mongering is about stuff that is literally harmless.

 

[Pessimist]

It's crazy how this word gets thrown around nowadays. If you're not willing to use nonsensical neopronouns, you're suddenly a transphobic bigot.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I tend to think it runs deeper than this though. We aren't necessarily offended by things we misunderstand. I think they feel threatened. Why else would they act with hostility?

None of the following is intended to justify how a person feels or reacts towards trans people. It's just certain things I've noticed.

I tend to notice a fair bit of the hostility is directed more towards trans women. I have my own theory that that ties into misandry. People who don't want to accept that biological men can become women and those who either dislike men or fear them, may not like them coming into spaces that were previously free of them. I think that perspective exists.

It's obviously debatable but- people who think men historically and currently have more power may see trans women as an extension of that.

I tend to notice that men who envy women focus a great deal on 'pretty privelage'. Also that some trans women are extremely stereotypically glamorous and attractive. Which of course- is their right. It's any woman's right- if she enjoys looking like that.

I suppose it still reinforces a stereotype though. One that cis women have been trying to break perhaps. So, it's effectively men becoming women and complying to the stereotypes created by men.

So- perpetuating what women 'should' be doing to appear attractive. That can be an issue if we find those things exploitative or repressive. Do we really want to wear revealing, tight fitting clothes? underwired bras, High heels? Make up? Are any of those particularly practical?

I suppose there are the more hardcore religious set that don't like either gender or sexual fluidity. Even though we are surely born a certain way so presumably- their God intended that.

Also- sexuality itself. A guy at our workplace found another guy who transitioned creepy. He was especially hostile towards her. I think possibly because in his mind- she was still a man. Maybe he was afraid that he could be lured into what (he presumably would still see) as a homosexual relationship. So, I think it can link to homophobia as well. For someone who doesn't believe a person can truly change their biological sex and who has homophobia, I think they find that side to it disturbing.

As it happens, the trans woman at our workplace was still into women anyway so- his (presumable) fears would be unfounded! It's also pretty arrogant anyway for him to assume she would find him attractive regardless.

As for the NPC label- to any of us presumably, it's the other people in our life who are the NPC's. We are playing us- at the end of the day. With our own set of perspectives, morals, ideas. For some people- they may never actually come into contact with a trans person in real life. I think maybe I've been around 2 and, I'm 45.

So- the majority of trans people they see may well be via the media. Which has (understandably) become so PC now that we get every single variety of gender, race and sexuality represented. Those people are probably actors a lot of the time so- genuine NPC's in terms of the parts they are playing. They may not in fact be trans or gay for example. So- arguably- the trans people they are aware of are in fact NPC's- literally! They are actors.

It can absolutely feel fake too. Like a deliberate decision to feel inclusive- that doesn't really quite gel. More like- the token person thrown in to try and appear PC. To effectively try and get us to be inclusive too. Which they may not appreciate- if they don't want to be.

My Dad for example isn't particularly prejudiced in real life but, he doesn't like the representation of it all on TV. I don't necessarily agree with him there. I don't think societies gel well being segregated and one way to encourage acceptance is to normalise it in media.

In terms of attitude though- I agree. They ought to acknowledge that we can be born with or develop strong feelings that we are a certain sexuality or gender- that doesn't necessarily align with our physical form.

There again- the practicalities of accomodating that- so that everyone is happy can be complicated. Effectively- one group of people feeling their righrs are being encroached upon by another's.

Ultimately- we all live life with our own specific history. Our upbringing and culture. If we happen to have parents with very strong and outspoken views say- we can pick that up too. That can be a person's reality. In a way, I think it's actually quite a feat to break away from what we've been taught for 18+ years and- think for ourselves- over everything.

Obviously, we'll make the effort if it's something that affects us directly. If we realise we are gay or trans and, our parents are very anti both- we may have to overcome all the stuff we've been taught to be comfortable in ourselves. Then, there's the risk of telling them and trying to change their ideas.

If we're cis though and, we have little to do with the trans community- will we work so hard to challenge prejudices we may have been taught? We should of course but, that goes for everything in life too. Isn't the kinder choice to be vegan but then- how many of us are? How much effort do we put into living lives that cause no harm to others? Do you feel like you've banished all prejudices you were taught?

We also have our own biases fed by our own experiences. We're human ultimately. I can't say I particularly liked this trans woman at work. She was suitably bitchy! I've also run into other trans people who will seemingly look to take offense. While I can understand that- if they've suffered a life of persecution, my own history of having people in life I needed to walk on eggshells around (not because of being trans,) I really don't want that kind of drama in my life now. I don't want to be accused of causing offense if it was never my intention. If I was simply asking a question.

I suppose I probably should have been better informed not to ask certain questions but then- that's the other thing- should we be expected to be an expert on all issues before having questions or opinions? We kind of can't- for all things. So again- I usually try to steer clear- rather than get involved. Although, I have (possibly stupidly) here again.

So- I think it's more nuanced than people simply not thinking deeply. I think we may have prejudices that- despite trying to reason away, still partially stick.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

You're right, NPC theory is dehumanizing and I shouldn't have used it. I'll rephrase: are transphobes cognitively underdeveloped compared to their non-bigot counterparts? I say yes.

As someone who has known "cognitively underdeveloped" people (and as someone who might be technically might qualify as it himself)... no. That's just ableism.

Being psychologically weak like bigots are isn't a permanent state of being, they CHOOSE to not get stronger. The brain is a muscle, after all. They could exercise it, but enjoy their "bubble" of misguided beliefs more.

Hold them accountable for their actions.

For some people- they may never actually come into contact with a trans person in real life. I think maybe I've been around 2 and, I'm 45.

*out trans people.

I only met 2-3 out trans people in real life as a kid/teen, but I found out that some people I met were not out (whether it be due to them passing well, being in the closet and unable to dress how they feel comfortable, or something else).

I honestly think bigots don't get that chances are, they HAVE met a trans person before. Maybe they spoke to them at a cashier counter and never again, but we aren't some mythical animal that only shows up when a flower blooms on a full moon.

It's crazy how this word gets thrown around nowadays. If you're not willing to use nonsensical neopronouns, you're suddenly a transphobic bigot.

As someone who used to use neopronouns, let me debunk your strawman argument:

1. OP didn't mention neopronouns. Most trans people use "traditional" pronouns, and not all neopronouns users are trans. Plus, I'm willing to bet that at least one neopronoun set is older than you. Not all sets are new.

We told you in that other thread—Google is your friend. Stop basing your views of trans people on Reddit and 4Chan wojack memes.


2. If you don't feel comfortable using them, most people use other pronouns too. Exclusive neopronoun users aren't that common. And even if they are, many accept you to just use their name.

Or you could, I don't know, just never talk about them? Block and move on? You're bitching about nothing. We have real problems in the world.

 

[Custos]

I think woke morons prove the NPC theory more. Bigots aren't people that have a different opinion to yourself, they are people who don't accept another's view as an respectful opinion. Or rather they view their own opinion as fact, and often refer to anyone that disagrees with them as a bigot.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I'd argue that most transphobia can be treated with exposure therapy - but it must be exposure, resulting in positive experiences. Taunts and provocations, is what turns feelings of fear and disgust (phobia) into anger and aggression.
I think activists often gets that wrong.

True. Although I often see people getting mad at trans people for mocking transphobes that go into conversations with no good-faith intentions at all. Once you meet enough overgrown trolls that escaped the internet, you learn to recognize whether being kind if worth your time.

I always give the benefit of the doubt (I'm not a fan of those who don't give benefit of the doubt, but I get being on the defensive), but if someone continues to ake it clear that they see us as subhuman, I will gladly mock their weakness.