Do not recesitate

[dust-in-the-wind]

If by chance you were found but weren't quite dead yet and you had a DNR note pinned to your shirt, would EMT honor that?

 

[willitpass]

If it's a known suicide attempt then DNRs are null and void. And most people don't die from natural causes with their DNR pinned to their shirt.

 

[dust-in-the-wind]

If it's a known suicide attempt then DNRs are null and void. And most people don't die from natural causes with their DNR pinned to their shirt.

Well that sucks and is unfair. And if I did happen to have a heart attack in public, no one would know I have a dnr and probably try to recesitate me anyway.
I use this example because I have a condition that puts me at high risk for a heart attack. I probably should have something pinned to my shirt at all times. They should have dnr bracelets like the medic alert ones I see people wear.

 

[willitpass]

Well that sucks and is unfair. And if I did happen to have a heart attack in public, no one would know I have a dnr and probably try to recesitate me anyway.
I use this example because I have a condition that puts me at high risk for a heart attack. I probably should have something pinned to my shirt at all times. They should have dnr bracelets like the medic alert ones I see people wear.

I know some EMTs and paramedics and they have said that they A. don't check for medical alert bracelets and B. can't abide by a DNR bracelet as they have to have the actual paperwork in their hands to be able to abide by it. They don't really check for DNRs anywhere so unless a family member came to them with the paperwork they wouldn't know. It's an unfortunate reality that it's very hard to get a DNR abided by when not in the hospital as well as the fact that they are not abided by in cases of suicide.

 

[Lady Laudanum]

I know some EMTs and paramedics and they have said that they A. don't check for medical alert bracelets and B. can't abide by a DNR bracelet as they have to have the actual paperwork in their hands to be able to abide by it. They don't really check for DNRs anywhere so unless a family member came to them with the paperwork they wouldn't know. It's an unfortunate reality that it's very hard to get a DNR abided by when not in the hospital as well as the fact that they are not abided by in cases of suicide.

Can confirm that a DNR bracelet would always be ignored and providing treatment always takes priority over trying to find any paperwork. If the patient is in very bad condition or needs CPR then EMTs and paramedics are very unlikely to try and find any documentation of a DNR because they would need all hands on deck to treat the patient. A family member would have to present the DNR.

Same goes for any tattoos that say DNR or do not resuscitate. If there is no paperwork then all life saving measures are taken and the patient is transported to the hospital. If someone has a DNR pinned to their shirt or displayed in a very obvious location then it's reasonable to assume that was a suicide attempt, in which case EMS is legally obligated to take all life-saving measures. The only time treatment *might* be withheld completely is if the patient is somehow not dead *yet* even though there is a catastrophic injury that is *obviously* incompatible with life. That kind of situation is very rare though and most guidelines will say to transport the patient to the hospital anyways, where they'll almost certainly be pronounced dead.

 

[LunarLight]

DNRs are never respected in case of suicide, I'm sorry.

 

[nihilistic_dragon]

If it's a known suicide attempt then DNRs are null and void. And most people don't die from natural causes with their DNR pinned to their shirt.

But you could probably try to sue afterwards at least, no? I remember some book on euthanasia mentions that, don't remember the name off the top of my head.

 

[willitpass]

But you could probably try to sue afterwards at least, no? I remember some book on euthanasia mentions that, don't remember the name off the top of my head.

If it's EMS who didn't know that you had a DNR or did not have access to the papers, no. Good samaritan laws and an inability to access paperwork to give them the go ahead to not do their job protect them from that. And if it's a suicide attempt, no, suicide attempts legally void DNRs.

 

[Lady Laudanum]

But you could probably try to sue afterwards at least, no? I remember some book on euthanasia mentions that, don't remember the name off the top of my head.

No, you can't reasonably expect EMS to know that you have a DNR, or to go look for any paperwork stating that you have one, if there isn't a family member present that can bring out the paperwork.

 

[athiestjoe]

The reasons above posted aren't the only reason(s). A lot of states require a physician, PA or a nurse to also sign the DNR for it to be valid. Other states require the person to have a terminal illness. So wherever you are may have built in restrictions on whether or not a DNR would even be valid to begin with. It is also inaccurate to say a suicide attempt "invalidates" DNRs universally, although a lot of states do. Some don't, take NY as an example, out of hospital DNRs place patient autonomy and the right to refuse resuscitation ahead of all other competing medical trauma including suicide and possibly even homicide situations (NewYork State Department of Health EMS FAQ: DNR).

Rather, it is moreso because someone who is either potentially murdered or commiting suicide who magically has a DNR it will be taken at face value to not likely be true or unverifiable in the hot moment an EMT arrives so EMTs will then pass the responsibility onto the hospital and try to save the person on the assumption it is not binding, not because it is invalid but because they don't want to take the risk of getting sued for failing to care for someone. Think about it in terms of also EMTs assuming possibly it was murder not suicide and it was being set up for a payout. They just have no clue and have one goal, to save someone in an emergency. Leave the paperwork for a hospital to worry about, I can see EMTs thinking.

Even with this said, though there are still current ethical and legal dilmenas as to whether ER staff should or shouldn't honor DNRs from suicide attempts which signals to me that it is not a categorical, automatic void. If it was a universal truth then there wouldn't be an ongoing debates around it. Right? Maybe, not sure.

With all this said though, I strongly suspect most EMTs nationwide in America are likely to let the hospital take the risk of not saving a life than they will take for their company, especially in light of suspicious circumstances, coupled with state laws varying it is still going to depend. I don't personally think it is too likely an EMT will withold care in a traumatic situation for whatever that is worth though.