Discussion Do doctors know better methods?

[McShuckle]

A few years ago, I was talking to this therapist/student psychiatrist or something and when I said killing yourself was difficult he smiled, confirmed it with me, and then laughed a bit.

I'm still kind of freaked out, I don't know what he thought, perhaps he thought I was just stupid? I don't know, this memory resurfaces from time to time. Do any of you have any therapist/psychiatrist moments like this?

 

[Sonnenblume]

I had a shrink tell me I was going to hell, that was a hoot.

 

[MAIO]

I had a shrink tell me I was going to hell, that was a hoot.

I am personally going to cease existing live after I die. Sorry to hear you are an exception going to hell.

 

[Sonnenblume]

I am personally going to cease existing live after I die. Sorry to hear you are an exception going to hell.

It's ok, it just means I'm special, like Einstein and Jack Kevorkian. Not bad company to keep in the eternal flames, I'd say :P

 

[millefeui]

I am personally going to cease existing live after I die. Sorry to hear you are an exception going to hell.

Good luck with that.

 

[Kfoe!12]

A few years ago, I was talking to this therapist/student psychiatrist or something and when I said killing yourself was difficult he smiled, confirmed it with me, and then laughed a bit.

I'm still kind of freaked out, I don't know what he thought, perhaps he thought I was just stupid? I don't know, this memory resurfaces from time to time. Do any of you have any therapist/psychiatrist moments like this?

They might have a first-hand experience. Many psychiatrists get into psychiatry because they had to deal with its problems first-hand.

 

[MAIO]

A few years ago, I was talking to this therapist/student psychiatrist or something and when I said killing yourself was difficult he smiled, confirmed it with me, and then laughed a bit.

I'm still kind of freaked out, I don't know what he thought, perhaps he thought I was just stupid? I don't know, this memory resurfaces from time to time. Do any of you have any therapist/psychiatrist moments like this?

I have a super religious/crazy ex who is going to be a therapist in a year. (She believes guys should be able to read her thoughts the schizo version, bible is literally true so on and has schizophrenia) Point being therapist are just people, often they became therapist to try to understand their psychology better. Your doctor can probably either relate or thinks you are in denial, anyone can easily kill themselves. Hopefully it's him relating. After all they use to always say psychiatrist have the highest suicide rates.

 

[Fylobatica]

therapist are just people, often they became therapist to try to understand their psychology better.

this is so true. In the end, most psychology theories are patched up with therapists' personal experiences and beliefs. There's a lot of bias going around. Better stick to neurobiology

 

[Sonnenblume]

I was just reminded, a shrink said to me once "You're already dead, aren't you?" I just nodded. He meant it as an insult, a challenge. But I didn't take ti as such. It was just a fact to me. *shrug*

 

[thatguyakira123]

I had a shrink tell me I was going to hell, that was a hoot.

Ironically if hell was real therapist would go to it for swindiling sick people.

I had a therapist tell me have faith in god and other relegious bullshit.

 

[LetRavensGather]

Doctors do know better methods. They still face difficulty obtaining them, though. There are built-in checks to cut down on incidents. Mostly though, they also know what doesn't work, and go straight by those options. No, I'm not a doc.

 

[Hikingcat]

Physicians do have some of the highest suicide rates, but some people of theorized it's because that they have become extremely familiar with taking apart the body and death, so it makes it easier for them to actually go through with it, because cutting up the body in surgery and death have both been normalized for them.

I feel like doctors would still have issues getting barbiturates, but they could probably get their hands on things that are in the hospital if they work there or things that are prescribable like opioids. If they took them for the hospital or faked a patient for a prescription, it's not like they'd get punished later if there were dead.

 

[sadak_the_wanderer]

Why not look for something a bit more definitive?

"Doctors who kill themselves: a study of the methods used for suicide" (by K. Hawton, A. Clements, S. Simkin, A. Malmberg; QJM: An International Journal of Medicine, Volume 93, Issue 6, 1 June 2000, Pages 351–357)

It's a touch out to date, by nearly two decades. You'll note that the barbituates are a little harder to come by, having been replaced largely by benzodiazapenes.

 

[Hikingcat]

I wasn't looking to do the research myself, just commenting on something I'd read in Joiner's Why People Die By Suicide. I also remember reading that something like 30% of chemists that kill themselves do so with cyanide (I think that was in Final Exit?). That leads me to believe that people use what they know, but that's not something that could really have an RTC done....

 

[sadak_the_wanderer]

Ah, Hikingcat, I was responding to the general topic, because it sounds like the querent is wondering if M.D.s have a secret method they're using.

One of the poisoning textbooks I'm going through mentioned a very particular barbituate being favorited by medical doctors, but I'd have to dig through to find the citation and be more sure of it. It wasn't our current favorite, if I recall.

I do agree that, at least in that article, the people in question go with what they know:

"The role of availability in determining methods used for suicide is strikingly illustrated by the fact that half of the anaesthetists who committed suicide used anaesthetic agents in these acts. This may also explain the relatively frequent use of barbiturates and especially opiates for suicide by general practitioners. On the other hand it is of interest that no psychiatrists who died took a psychotropic agent in overdose. This might reflect the fact that psychiatrists rarely have direct contact with the drugs they prescribe, but is perhaps more likely to be due to the psychiatrists being aware that many psychotropic agents are less dangerous in overdose than other drugs."
​

Another, similar study suggests that veterinarians go for self-poisoning, typically injectable barbituates.

Familiarity and availability definitely factor into it. Just look at the coal gas situation in England. Overall, I think civilization has become more and more concerned with safety, in terms of making sure people don't "accidentally" harm themselves, and this has had the indirect effect of making a self-selected death that much harder.

 

[LetRavensGather]

Physicians do have some of the highest suicide rates, but some people of theorized it's because that they have become extremely familiar with taking apart the body and death, so it makes it easier for them to actually go through with it, because cutting up the body in surgery and death have both been normalized for them.

I feel like doctors would still have issues getting barbiturates, but they could probably get their hands on things that are in the hospital if they work there or things that are prescribable like opioids. If they took them for the hospital or faked a patient for a prescription, it's not like they'd get punished later if there were dead.

Meds in current hospitals - especially for controlled substances —- are realeased by computerized compartment method. You must code in every drug you remove and do the same when it's given to the patient, Conflicts in inventory alerts pharmacists. Contolled meds (benzos, opioids) must be signed out and witnessed with a coworker. What Drs do know is that most pills overdoses are unsuccessful. But they know a few combinations of meds that will succeed when combined. Those and anesthesia meds/ gasses are the only ways I actually know cases of phycisian suicides personally, but I think they've blocked those as well.

When it comes down to it, they're just people too. With the same choices to make and honed self-preservation skills to overcome.

Wish it were different. For all of us.

 

[Lion]

On the other hand it is of interest that no psychiatrists who died took a psychotropic agent in overdose. This might reflect the fact that psychiatrists rarely have direct contact with the drugs they prescribe but is perhaps more likely to be due to the psychiatrists being aware that many psychotropic agents are less dangerous in overdose than other drugs

wow, that is interesting...

 

[sadak_the_wanderer]

I know a couple of nurses who seem to have pretty free access. I'll have to see about succinylcholine ("sux"), a paralytic. One R.N. I knew managed to steal a quarter-million dollars worth of Valium, sort of a staggering amount.

 

[sadak_the_wanderer]

As a followup: from Deadly Doses: A Writer's Guide to Poisons ...

Ultrashort-acting thiobarbital, used also as an intravenous anesthetic, has the quickest response on the brain. According to Prediction of Suicide by Drs. Beck, Resnick, and Lettierri, this last drug is the most widely used of all drugs for suicide among doctors.​

I will dig up the book and see what that has to say.

 

[Maya]

Ive been fortunate enough to have a psychologist who listens and lets me have power over myself. She cant make me do anything- and really she just listens really well. But i have heard of several other psychologists being manipulative or agressive and doing damage.

 

[IrRegularjoe]

A few years ago, I was talking to this therapist/student psychiatrist or something and when I said killing yourself was difficult he smiled, confirmed it with me, and then laughed a bit.

I'm still kind of freaked out, I don't know what he thought, perhaps he thought I was just stupid? I don't know, this memory resurfaces from time to time. Do any of you have any therapist/psychiatrist moments like this?

Book me an appointment please. He sounds like he could help me.
Most likely. But damn that's creepy.

 

[catsarecool]

I once opened up to a medical professional how I was depressed and stressed to the point where I could only lay in bed and sleep or think about killing myself.
When I told her how I was constantly on the verge of jumping off the balcony she told me that that I would only manage to break my legs and accused me of threatening suicide to make my parents let me move back in. I never mentioned being suicidal to my parents or anyone else besides her.

Thanks, I guess.

 

[IrRegularjoe]

I once opened up to a medical professional how I was depressed and stressed to the point where I could only lay in bed and sleep or think about killing myself.
When I told her how I was constantly on the verge of jumping off the balcony she told me that that I would only manage to break my legs and accused me of threatening suicide to make my parents let me move back in. I never mentioned being suicidal to my parents or anyone else besides her.

Thanks, I guess.

Really goes to show that psychiatrists are out of their fucking minds.

 

[softfuzzyman]

hahaha my first significant attempt was taking 50 prazosin pills (blood pressure lowering med) and all the EMTs were just like not impressed lmfao like making it clear that that's stupid and obvious not to work. I had no clue, idk, i was hoping itd kill me, it seemed like a lot, but they were all super flippant about it. Same with er docs, everyone was just like lol look at this fool. My 2 block, $900 ambulance ride wasnt even with the lights on :( also in the 24 hr observation period in the er (just had a drip, no stomach pumping or anything like that, again all the doctors were kinda just like lol...) i had a blood pressure cuff that'd automatically inflate every 30 minutes (for 24 hours straight) to check my blood pressure, and after several hours it started to hurt super bad, to the point that like halfway thru, i'd hear the beep thatd signal it was about to inflate and before it even inflated id start hyperventilating because it hurt so bad and i knew it was coming... drs kept treating me like i was just being super dramatic and unstable and it wasnt an issue and they made me keep it on. Until they took it off at the end and my whole upper arm where it had been was dark purple/red, super bruised from that gd thing, and everyone was just... *surprised pikachu face*

Anyway yeah thts just my negative interactions with regular drs in terms of suicide related stuff. I've lost count of how many therapists and psychiatrists have been condescending and nasty and talked over me or talked down to me or been invalidating.

 

[FriendofDeath]

I once opened up to a medical professional how I was depressed and stressed to the point where I could only lay in bed and sleep or think about killing myself.
When I told her how I was constantly on the verge of jumping off the balcony she told me that that I would only manage to break my legs and accused me of threatening suicide to make my parents let me move back in. I never mentioned being suicidal to my parents or anyone else besides her.

Thanks, I guess.

What a bonafide jerk. I currently have a great therapist who unfortunately moved out of town. My psychiatrist is good, too. Miracle of miracles. I used to want to get in this profession. Though I was never officially a therapist, I did a lot of academic counseling that became personal. Enjoyed it, too. Felt like I could make a difference. Now too damn sick!

hahaha my first significant attempt was taking 50 prazosin pills (blood pressure lowering med) and all the EMTs were just like not impressed lmfao like making it clear that that's stupid and obvious not to work. I had no clue, idk, i was hoping itd kill me, it seemed like a lot, but they were all super flippant about it. Same with er docs, everyone was just like lol look at this fool. My 2 block, $900 ambulance ride wasnt even with the lights on :( also in the 24 hr observation period in the er (just had a drip, no stomach pumping or anything like that, again all the doctors were kinda just like lol...) i had a blood pressure cuff that'd automatically inflate every 30 minutes (for 24 hours straight) to check my blood pressure, and after several hours it started to hurt super bad, to the point that like halfway thru, i'd hear the beep thatd signal it was about to inflate and before it even inflated id start hyperventilating because it hurt so bad and i knew it was coming... drs kept treating me like i was just being super dramatic and unstable and it wasnt an issue and they made me keep it on. Until they took it off at the end and my whole upper arm where it had been was dark purple/red, super bruised from that gd thing, and everyone was just... *surprised pikachu face*

Anyway yeah thts just my negative interactions with regular drs in terms of suicide related stuff. I've lost count of how many therapists and psychiatrists have been condescending and nasty and talked over me or talked down to me or been invalidating.

These lovely medical people are really starting to piss me off. Sorry you went through that. Jerks to the 10th degree!

 

[Apathy's Girl]

I take Lunesta and Ativan to sleep. I asked my psychiatrist to up my does of Ativan. She said I hope you're not taking them both together because it can kill you. So now I've got quit the stockpile of Lunesta and Ativan. Hopefully she was telling the truth.

 

[DyingAlf]

A few years ago, I was talking to this therapist/student psychiatrist or something and when I said killing yourself was difficult he smiled, confirmed it with me, and then laughed a bit.

I'm still kind of freaked out, I don't know what he thought, perhaps he thought I was just stupid? I don't know, this memory resurfaces from time to time. Do any of you have any therapist/psychiatrist moments like this?

I've had a similar reaction from a mental health professional & I feel like it's one of the better reactions (even though I don't know their reasons or exactly what they meant by it).

The ones that upset/annoyed/bothered me were more along the lines of "it's not difficult, it's just that you don't really want to die".

I definitely do want to die & just because the damn SI (or other people) get in the way doesn't mean that I don't!

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Many psychiatrists get into psychiatry because they had to deal with its problems first-hand.

I doubt that's true.

If psychiatrists get in to it from having to deal with its problems first hand, they wouldn't do such a terrible job, have such a lack of empathy, and they certainly wouldn't be so willing to prescribe brain poison pills on every possible occasion.

They get into it because they come from a privileged background and it's a lucrative and comfortable career with lots of perks.

 

[Commandocoki]

Mine told me I don't know exactly what's wrong with you, but please get on birth control and do not have any more kids.
Yikes. (I have 2)