Describe death without resorting to clichés.

[blvck]

I'm religious and I believe it's something a little further than sleep. When jesus was going to resurrect Lazarus, he told his disciples that he was going to "awaken" him. Just a state similar to sleep. You are unconscious and unaware of the passage of time. Just a dreamless sleep. No pain, no suffering.

But just like jesus brought lazarus back to life, he will do the same for so many that were so internally tormented, that they took theirs. This gives me hope, but it just sucks how emotionally numb and absent I am that I can barely feel anything....sigh.

I really want to give everyone here the hope I have. I may sound crazy, but God really is going to fix our world abs replace all our pain with happiness. All those illnesses and dead loved ones gone will be reversed. He's going to fix everything...

 

[StuFin]

I'm religious and I believe it's something a little further than sleep. When jesus was going to resurrect Lazarus, he told his disciples that he was going to "awaken" him. Just a state similar to sleep. You are unconscious and unaware of the passage of time. Just a dreamless sleep. No pain, no suffering.

But just like jesus brought lazarus back to life, he will do the same for so many that were so internally tormented, that they took theirs. This gives me hope, but it just sucks how emotionally numb and absent I am that I can barely feel anything....sigh.

I really want to give everyone here the hope I have. I may sound crazy, but God really is going to fix our world abs replace all our pain with happiness. All those illnesses and dead loved ones gone will be reversed. He's going to fix everything...

That's assuming the story of Lazarus and Jesus is true, or accurately reported, or that he explained it well.

I'm sorry but however religious you are it's just down to what you choose to believe. The evidence is that once you're gone, you're gone for good.

We hear people talking about re-incarnation and etc.

Well apart from the fact there are more people alive on Earth right now than have ever existed in all of previous history (using simple exponential growth as the mathematical model), what happens to the creatures from the 99%+ of all creatures that have ever existed that are now extinct?

Do they come back as people, or bacteria, or birds, or snails, or what?

And if they do, since they don't have higher functioning brains, who cares - an ameoba is hardly going to be wondering about life or death, it won't even understand that death is a thing. Or probably life for that matter. It just "is".

And how can a single celled organism come back as a multi celled organism?

So how then can a human with say 50 trillion cells (as an arbitrary figure) come back as a 5 trillion celled animal like a chicken?

Does it not seem more likely in our simple categorically thinking brain, that we equate 1 body and 1 "soul", to 1 body and 1 "soul" (soul could equal mind).

So a microscopic organism is 1 body, 1 soul, which is the same as 1 person 1 soul.

But they can't be, because to be a human or a chicken or a rodent or an elephant or a plant needs a brain or not a brain of varying degrees of ability, and it's that which creates the experience of the world.

A chicken doesn't experience the world in the same way a tree does, and a tree doesn't experience the world in the same way a human does, and a human nothing like a single cell organism.

So at the end is the end. The End.

 

[Partial-Elf]

We make a big mistake when we ask "what will the experience of death be like?" There is no state of death-instead, it's just the end of experience. The best way to conceive of death is to not think about it at all. As soon as you try to define or observe it, you begin applying concepts and language and attaching an observer; those things all get you further away from understanding death.

 

[Lilacmoon]

a transition. whether from something to nothing, or from life to afterlife, or anything in between, it is a transition between states.
one day we'll all know what's waiting on the other side.

 

[Gromit-CTB]

Part of why I haven't ctb yet is because the words to describe death aren't very inviting. "Eternal nothing, etc" sounds cold like this world.

I kinda wish I was still Christian. I'd believe I was going to heaven. I'd acknowledge I tried my best and God will forgive me because God is Love, etc (other rationalizations).

Peace

 

[sadworld]

Transition to a better place.

 

[Astronomer]

Transition to a better place.

I hope so, where suffering no longer exists.

 

[itachi of death]

An exit into eternal bliss

 

[Arrow]

i imagine it would be like going to sleep and having no dreams at all. waking up from a dreamless sleep feels like you just laid down and got back up, only a few hours passed, right? nothing in between those two moments. so just take that lack of anything at all, multiply it by infinity, and you've got death.

 

[motel rooms]

It's impossible to describe death without resorting to clichés. Everything's already been said & written about a billion times.

 

[WornOutLife]

Death is that moment and state in which you won't have to deal with depression, suicide, and any kind of problems from this world anymore.

It's just like the time before you were born. You just, won't exist.

 

[fufa]

I Imagine it's a lot like what it was like before you were born.

 

[motel rooms]

It's just like the time before you were born. You just, won't exist.

Said the Greek philosopher Epicurus (341 – 270 BC)...

 

[Jean Améry]

It's impossible to describe death without resorting to clichés. Everything's already been said & written about a billion times.

The same could be said about philosophy at large. That still doesn't mean it's a useless activity. It's important to think about these things for oneself and reach one's own conclusion. Regardless of whether it's 'original' or not. Especially for people who contemplate their own death.

Your own statement has also been made over and over again. For example by the unknown author(s) of the book Ecclesiastes: 'There is nothing new under the sun'.

 

[motel rooms]

The same could be said about philosophy at large. That still doesn't mean it's a useless activity. It's important to think about these things for oneself and reach one's own conclusion. Regardless of whether it's 'original' or not. Especially for people who contemplate their own death.

Your own statement has also been made over and over again. For example by the unknown author(s) of the book Ecclesiastes: 'There is nothing new under the sun'.

Many influential philosophers themselves believe that philosophy has become a useless activity, don't they? I'm not claiming that suicidal people should stop trying to figure out if they should live or kill themselves, I only said it's impossible to describe death without resorting to clichés. I'm aware that my statement was also a cliché

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Death is like officially that guy okay, y'know, you know the one. You go in a bar n' he's like "dis suit is eh, officially is a Giorgio-Armani askmadad knows him he"—FUCK YOU.

I AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN'T HAVIN' DAT SHIT.

Spoiler: Here's the thing I was making a reference to

Hey it's technically not a cliche to refer to death this way, right?

 

[Jean Améry]

Many influential philosophers themselves believe that philosophy has become a useless activity, don't they? I'm not claiming that suicidal people should stop trying to figure out if they should live or kill themselves, I only said it's impossible to describe death without resorting to clichés. I'm aware that my statement was also a cliché

That's a fairly meaningless statement as philosophy does not depend on authority. Besides many others claimed and still claim the opposite. It's also fairly contradictory, isn't it? How can anyone call themselves a philosopher and then proclaim what they do is perfectly useless? Usually anyone that claims philosophy is useless is talking about the way others view and practice it.

It also depends on what you mean by 'philosophy' as it is a very broad term which covers many subfields and in a way has as many meanings as there are (major) philosophers. When it comes to a lot of academic philosophy I tend to agree although that's also a broad, sweeping statement and I do not consider myself the supreme judge on such matters. Nor do I focus on the current fads in the academic literature: I only read what interests me. I also doubt anyone even an 'influencial' professional philosopher (the ancients would have scoffed at that one) can possibly know everything there is to know even about contemporary philosophy so even if they hold that opinion it would be rather arbitrary.

The position you're referring to is also not new: the Greek sophist Gorgias famously claimed nothing exists, that even if it did it could not be known, even if it could be known it could not be communicated. It therefore follows that he considered philosophy to be useless. Scepticism including about the purpose and nature of philosophy is pretty much as old as philosophy itself. Yet that hasn't stopped people from engaging in what they consider(ed) philosophy.

Personally I believe Aristotle was right and exercising our reasoning skills to examine reality, how to think, how to act etcetera is the most worthwhile way to live. If only to determine if life has any value at all: in general or in particular. Or in this case whether death is to be feared or not, i.e. an evil or not.

I see philosophy more as a way of life than as a discipline that generates truths (which nowadays is the business of science anyway) or leads to any solid conclusions or concrete findings. Being rational in general certainly is useful: it engenders scepticism so we are not easily fooled, it allows us to contemplate things that are bigger than us thereby reducing foolish attachment to our own precious ego, it allows us to examine our own opinions and those of others (the amount of foolishness in the world is staggering) and it's a skill that has many obvious practical uses. It's also a way of keeping emotions in check and avoiding many misfortunes that regularly befall those who never truly think.

Plus I enjoy doing it and reading about it so for me it most certainly isn't useless.

It's up to each individual to determine whether or not rational thought about reality is meaningful to them. That to me is the essence of philosophy: to think for oneself. Regardless of the subject or what others may think about these things. Especially those who think they are authorities in the field while in all likelihood they'll be completely forgotten soon after their death.

 

[Celerity]

The end of wanting

 

[Aloken]

An illusion. As is existence in a way. I believe we're bound to never die, but our primal condition is death-like, so we try to escape this nonexistent existence by "dreaming" our lives, physical and non physical. But in reality I have no idea.

 

[Painless_end]

The eternal void that is the reward for those who want it and punishment for those who don't

 

[FuneralCry]

A blissful state of permanent unconsciousness. Freedom from the chains of mortality.

 

[eclipse]

I was under general anaesthetic when my wisdom teeth were removed. It was just a place of total nonexistence, no dreams, thoughts, anything at all, I was just gone completely. It was no bad experience in any way and if anything that makes me feel that death is nothing to be afraid of.

 

[avoid_slow_death]

Death: noun The reward you get at the end of living a pointless life just like every other living thing. Life is the chore, death is the reward.

 

[Green Destiny]

You simply didn't exist before you were born. And when you die you're going back into not existing. That's my take on it at least.

 

[motel rooms]

I see philosophy more as a way of life than as a discipline that generates truths (which nowadays is the business of science anyway) or leads to any solid conclusions or concrete findings. Being rational in general certainly is useful: it engenders scepticism so we are not easily fooled, it allows us to contemplate things that are bigger than us thereby reducing foolish attachment to our own precious ego, it allows us to examine our own opinions and those of others (the amount of foolishness in the world is staggering) and it's a skill that has many obvious practical uses. It's also a way of keeping emotions in check and avoiding many misfortunes that regularly befall those who never truly think.

Let me resort to yet another cliché - all I know is that I actually know next to nothing about the truly important matters. I have no idea why I'm on this planet, I don't have a clue what this universe, life & death really are. The only thing I am certain of is that my brain is experiencing intolerable amounts of pain & that I want to kill it.
Btw, how would you describe death?

 

[Adamsnolife]

FFFFRRRREEEEEDDDOOOMMMM

 

[Jean Améry]

Let me resort to yet another cliché - all I know is that I actually know next to nothing about the truly important matters. I have no idea why I'm on this planet, I don't have a clue what this universe, life & death really are. The only thing I am certain of is that my brain is experiencing intolerable amounts of pain & that I want to kill it.
Btw, how would you describe death?

That is actually a rather profound philosophical statement in itself and an admission of intellectual honesty as well as deep suffering. I'm genuinly sorry about that last bit (I am no stranger to the experience although I obviously can't possibly know what it is like for you) although I am a perfect stranger so nothing I say should mean much to you or anyone else.

Pain does tend to penetrate one's consciousness like nothing else, doesn't it? Which is why Schopenhauer called it the ultimate reality: contentment or pleasure being nothing more than an absence of pain including painful longing.

How would I describe death? Given that I haven't experienced it yet I can't. We can only speculate really. The only thing we know is that at death consciousness seems to dissapear for good, all bodily functions cease and the body begins to break down.

The major question then becomes whether this is the end of us or does our consciousness survive our physical death? Given that that implies that we are more than material beings and I don't see any evidence for this (which isn't to say it'd be impossible: absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence) I'd say the most reasonable assumption is probably that death is what it seems to be: the permanent end of the individual. Lets just say that if were to wake up so to speak after I died I'd be mightily surprised.

As to why we are on this planet: I do not believe there is a purpose as this would imply a supernatural and incredibly powerful intelligence at work. As Hume said we owe our existence to an incredibly complex chain of causality going all the way back to the beginning, of which we know nothing really. In a way it's just dumb luck (bad luck if we're suffering): things could have easily gone completely different and we wouldn't even exist. Existence is contingent and in a way absurd.

Do you require a definite answer to these questions purely out of intellectual curiosity or do you think it is the fact that you're suffering that is driving you to seek answers that would somehow justify it? Most people are perfectly content with their little plans and aspirations, fulfillment of wants and needs, staving off boredom and pain and so on. They don't wonder about the ultimate meaning of it all.

As to wanting to end pain through suicide: I'd think that's the whole point of it. Whether it is possible to accomplish that goal (permanent cessation of pain, obviously humans can kill themselves) depends on the above mentioned question. That being said it's probably a good idea to try other ways of alleviating pain than the ultimate cure so to speak. If you haven't already of course. I hate to presume let alone preach in any way.

What exactly is causing you pain or this also an unknown? I'd imagine not knowing why one is suffering (no external cause or causes) must be even worse than the opposite.

 

[motel rooms]

Pain does tend to penetrate one's consciousness like nothing else, doesn't it? Which is why Schopenhauer called it the ultimate reality: contentment or pleasure being nothing more than an absence of pain including painful longing.
...
The major question then becomes whether this is the end of us or does our consciousness survive our physical death? Given that that implies that we are more than material beings and I don't see any evidence for this (which isn't to say it'd be impossible: absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence)
...
Do you require a definite answer to these questions purely out of intellectual curiosity or do you think it is the fact that you're suffering that is driving you to seek answers that would somehow justify it? Most people are perfectly content with their little plans and aspirations, fulfillment of wants and needs, staving off boredom and pain and so on. They don't wonder about the ultimate meaning of it all.
...
What exactly is causing you pain or this also an unknown? I'd imagine not knowing why one is suffering (no external cause or causes) must be even worse than the opposite.

1) Schopenhauer speaks to me. Also, he was kinda hot when he was young & he looked like a koala bear from hell as an old man, which is kinda cool
2) I hate Plato & his fancy crap about the soul being immortal & separate from the body, but I can't disprove his extraordinary claims, so I'm an agnostic
3) I suppose I'm driven both by suffering & intellectual curiosity
4) I'm all kinds of traumatized. Very ugly childhood & adolescence & then I caused the suicide of my abusive, manipulative married lover by outing him

 

[Jean Améry]

1) Schopenhauer speaks to me. Also, he was kinda hot when he was young & he looked like a koala bear from hell as an old man, which is kinda cool
2) I hate Plato & his fancy crap about the soul being immortal & separate from the body, but I can't disprove his extraordinary claims, so I'm an agnostic
3) I suppose I'm driven both by suffering & intellectual curiosity
4) I'm all kinds of traumatized. Very ugly childhood & adolescence & then I caused the suicide of my abusive, manipulative married lover by outing him

Given that good old Schopenhauer is pretty much considered the patriarch of pessimism in European philosophy that does not surprise me. I'm a big fan too if that is the correct term in a philosophical context although his metaphysics do seem to ultimately rest more on eastern mysticism than western empiricism. Can't comment on his looks as I simply have no opinion as to how other men look. Dead or alive, lol.

From what I read Plato is still quite popular in the philosophy of mathematics but otherwise his metaphysics suffer from the problem of all metaphysics: it's speculation about the nature of reality which is probably beyond our grasp. His philosophy of the Ideas or rather Socrates' is basically making the world more complex without adding anything explanation wise. It's also contra Ockham's razor.

As to whether or not 'souls' exist: it's a widely held belief by pretty much all of humanity for the larger part of history but a) there's no evidence to support it and b) it seems to be intimately tied to our fears and hopes (wishful thinking) making it even more suspect. I can't disprove it either but I don't have to: given that it's impossible to prove a negative (except in concreto) it's up to those who posit the claim of a soul or any supernatural mumbo-jumbo to prove it. As a matter of course I simply deny those claims until I see credible evidence to the contrary.

Since you're a fan of Schopenhauer perhaps you should read up on his theory of how to lessen suffering: ironically by contemplating existence (philosophy) and objects of art and beauty since in this way the individual will transcends its own egotism and thus gains peace.

You can't 'cause' someone's suicide unless you physically or mentally torture them to the point of wanting to do anything to escape it and even then it still requires a decision on the part of that person. Or drug them to the point they no longer have a clue about reality to the point where to think they'll be able to fly when they step off a rooftop.

I don't know the particulars of that situation nor do I want to really but given that that man was mean to you and he chose to deceive his spouse I'd say he pretty much brought it upon himself and he made the decision to die over other possibilities. Him not you. Perhaps you shouldn't have outed him but I don't see how one can reasonably conclude you're responsible for his suicide.

As to your childhood and youth: sadly parenthood is pretty much seen as sacred in this sick society and there are no real standards people who procreate must adhere to except for the most blatant child abuse which is punishable by law . It's a lottery really with a very real possibility of ending up in a rotten family or situation. I wasn't physical abused or neglected as a child but my parents were pretty much incompetent with twisted personalities who always put themselves before their children. In my view that makes them scum as are all those who harm their children in any way, actively or passively.

 

[blvck]

That's assuming the story of Lazarus and Jesus is true, or accurately reported, or that he explained it well.

I'm sorry but however religious you are it's just down to what you choose to believe. The evidence is that once you're gone, you're gone for good.

We hear people talking about re-incarnation and etc.

Well apart from the fact there are more people alive on Earth right now than have ever existed in all of previous history (using simple exponential growth as the mathematical model), what happens to the creatures from the 99%+ of all creatures that have ever existed that are now extinct?

Do they come back as people, or bacteria, or birds, or snails, or what?

And if they do, since they don't have higher functioning brains, who cares - an ameoba is hardly going to be wondering about life or death, it won't even understand that death is a thing. Or probably life for that matter. It just "is".

And how can a single celled organism come back as a multi celled organism?

So how then can a human with say 50 trillion cells (as an arbitrary figure) come back as a 5 trillion celled animal like a chicken?

Does it not seem more likely in our simple categorically thinking brain, that we equate 1 body and 1 "soul", to 1 body and 1 "soul" (soul could equal mind).

So a microscopic organism is 1 body, 1 soul, which is the same as 1 person 1 soul.

But they can't be, because to be a human or a chicken or a rodent or an elephant or a plant needs a brain or not a brain of varying degrees of ability, and it's that which creates the experience of the world.

A chicken doesn't experience the world in the same way a tree does, and a tree doesn't experience the world in the same way a human does, and a human nothing like a single cell organism.

So at the end is the end. The End.

Well I believe the story is true because it's proven by nonreligious historical records other than the bible that jesus really did exist. On top of the evidence that bible prophecy is real. That's just what has convinced me personally. If you aren't convinced, that's your choice