Soul

Soul

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Apr 12, 2019
4,704
Not a better afterlife. The afterlife could be ordinary for both and the male porn star would still be ahead. I don't know about you, but I like sex. I want a lot of it with very attractive women. Books, movies, etc don't compare.

But ... how will the porn star "be ahead" when the porn star doesn't exist and neither does the other person? And "ahead" at what?? It makes no sense. ...
Oh wait ... You're not really contemplating the afterlife, are you. You're saying you suspect a male porn star has a better life than a virgin, because you think what they do is enjoyable sex with women you consider very attractive.

Have you talked with a lot of male porn stars about their lives?
 
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Kramer

Kramer

Nervous wreck
Oct 27, 2020
1,398
But ... how will the porn star "be ahead" when the porn star doesn't exist and neither does the other person? And "ahead" at what?? It makes no sense. ...
Oh wait ... You're not really contemplating the afterlife, are you. You're saying you suspect a male porn star has a better life than a virgin, because you think what they do is enjoyable sex with women you consider very attractive.

Have you talked with a lot of male porn stars about their lives?
No I was talking about an actual afterlife. A world similar to our own. Ahead in the sense that he's had the experience our very genes crave many times. Deny your sexuality all you want, but there's a reason nothing comes close to mind-blowing sex. I'm sure after awhile the sex feels like a chore, but that's because they've had their fill just like a person who's gorged themself at a buffet.
 
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Soul

Soul

gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha
Apr 12, 2019
4,704
No I was talking about an actual afterlife. A world similar to our own. Ahead in the sense that he's had the experience our very genes crave many times. Deny your sexuality all you want, but there's a reason nothing comes close to mind-blowing sex. I'm sure after awhile the sex feels like a chore, but that's because they've had their fill just like a person who's gorged themself at a buffet.

Sweetie, I'm not denying my sexuality; I'm questioning your familiarity with how porn films are made, what "very attractive women" are like, and why you imagine either of those things is crucial to a worthwhile existence. It's quite sad. If I thought that way I'd join a gym or volunteer at an animal shelter or go to the YMCA. 8]
 
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Weary Soul

Weary Soul

Soon I will be free
Nov 13, 2019
1,156
Inevitable, whether it be at my hands or not.
 
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Kramer

Kramer

Nervous wreck
Oct 27, 2020
1,398
Sweetie, I'm not denying my sexuality; I'm questioning your familiarity with how porn films are made, what "very attractive women" are like, and why you imagine either of those things is crucial to a worthwhile existence. It's quite sad. If I thought that way I'd join a gym or volunteer at an animal shelter or go to the YMCA. 8]
Being condescending isn't the right approach. I didn't get past "sweetie." Don't make the same mistake when replying to others or else no one will read what you write.
 
Jumper Geo

Jumper Geo

Life's a bitch and then you die.
Feb 23, 2020
2,910
First your Heart dies followed by your Brain then all them hard lessons you've learned in this life time to create the person and personality you are today, have gone back to the spirit world.

I hope you've checked out the afterlife thread.

Cheers

Geo
 
Wayfaerer

Wayfaerer

JFMSUF
Aug 21, 2019
1,938
Imagine not thinking. That's death.
 
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E

esse_est_percipi

Enlightened
Jul 14, 2020
1,747
No, it's nothing
giphy.gif
There is no such thing as nothing.
 
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Wayfaerer

Wayfaerer

JFMSUF
Aug 21, 2019
1,938
It's weird. What's the point of this life when we won't even know we were ever alive? At the end, a male porn star will be no different from a male virgin who couldn't get a single woman.

Exactly. It makes no difference in the end and the universe is more fair than we give it credit for... Provided that the universe dies and does not come back.

... I find this extremely odd. Have you truly been contemplating a porn-star having a better afterlife than a virgin? Why, because of bragging rights?

I think he means in terms of quality of life.
 
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esse_est_percipi

Enlightened
Jul 14, 2020
1,747
It makes no difference in the end and the universe is more fair than we give it credit for... Provided that the universe dies and does not come back
:heart:
 
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SmellyRat

SmellyRat

Arcanist
Nov 5, 2018
479
Exactly. It makes no difference in the end and the universe is more fair than we give it credit for... Provided that the universe dies and does not come back.

There is the loop theory which is like Nietzsches eternal return which to me is the most terrifying thing ever.

It means i have to relive this shit again over and over:haha:
giphy.gif
 
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Kramer

Kramer

Nervous wreck
Oct 27, 2020
1,398
First your Heart dies followed by your Brain then all them hard lessons you've learned in this life time to create the person and personality you are today, have gone back to the spirit world.

I hope you've checked out the afterlife thread.

Cheers

Geo
Afterlife stuff is just speculation. Spirits, etc is nonsense without verifiable evidence. Personal experience is not evidence.
 
Jumper Geo

Jumper Geo

Life's a bitch and then you die.
Feb 23, 2020
2,910
Afterlife stuff is just speculation. Spirits, etc is nonsense without verifiable evidence. Personal experience is not evidence.

There are millions of sighting of ghosts and haunting going back 100's of years. There are 1000's of cases of rebirths


Cheers

Geo
 
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E

esse_est_percipi

Enlightened
Jul 14, 2020
1,747
It is very weird, the only reason we know anything exists is because we are alive right now, a weird biological, electrical and chemical combination that lasts for a short time before ending.

What's the point and how does it happen?

We didn't exist at all and didn't know this universe or planet etc existed at all until we were born and alive, and when we leave we cease and won't even know we were here or what we experienced.

It won't exist again and neither will we.

Makes you wonder if anything actually really exists at all, a bit like if a tree falls in a forest...
The most inexplicable and mysterious thing, and which will probably never be answered by science, is why we ever became conscious and aware at all as a particular organism at a point in time and space, rather than as any other organism at any other point in spacetime, or rather than just never existing ay all in an eternal state of non-awareness.

Apparently, there is no sufficient reason for it, and the prior probability of ever becoming conscious at all is at least sextillion googolplexes to one, if not infinity to one.

However, if you plug in certain assumptions and hypotheses, such as the possibility of reincarnation, or the continuation of some form subjective awareness after death, or the idea that matter/energy is fundamentally something spiritual/idealistic rather than dead inert stuff, then the posterior probability of becoming conscious at a point in time as a particular thing increases dramatically.
There is the loop theory which is like Nietzsches eternal return which to me is the most terrifying thing ever.
Oh shit, not this again.
Even if the universe repeats itself, I see no reason why we would have to experience it again as us, as the particles and chemicals which make us up now wouldn't be identical in future universes. As far as I know, and just going by the one example of our own universe, big bangs create new matter and energy, it's not a recycling of the 'old' matter/energy of previous universes. The thermonuclear conflagration of the singularity is too intense for previous particles to survive.
 
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Kramer

Kramer

Nervous wreck
Oct 27, 2020
1,398
There are millions of sighting of ghosts and haunting going back 100's of years. There are 1000's of cases of rebirths


Cheers

Geo
Throwing out "millions" to boost the credibility of what you're saying won't work. It reminds me of that passage in the New Testament where it says 500 people saw the risen Christ. Who were these 500? No one knows. It's just a made up number and people eat it up. I'll look at the article.
 
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Jumper Geo

Jumper Geo

Life's a bitch and then you die.
Feb 23, 2020
2,910
Throwing out "millions" to boost the credibility of what you're saying won't work. It reminds me of that passage in the New Testament where it says 500 people saw the risen Christ. Who were these 500? No one knows. It's just a made up number and people eat it up. I'll look at the article.

Sorry the bible is written by people in powerful positions who use it to control there people, Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker travelled around the World and conducted proper investigations into rebirths.



Cheers

Geo
 
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AbsoluteNothingness

AbsoluteNothingness

permanent eternal absoluteNONexistenceNOTHINGness
Dec 17, 2019
86
Death is eternal absolute nothingness, just nothing, oblivion, non-existence. When 'I' die, 'I' go back to the void for all eternity. (This is all my personal opinion, this isn't a "fact" [for me I wish it is lol] and it's not 'objective' because there are people who believe many different things and it is not proven "scientifically" or whatever that means lol. There are 'people' who want to go to 'heaven', others want some type of 'afterlife' starting "another life" in another "world"/"planet" or whatever other type of 'afterlife', there are some who think there must be 'something' after 'something' and that 'nothing' "doesn't exist" because it isn't "measurable" so they believe that 'consciousness' will continue in some other 'form', others believe in 'reincarnation' and blab blah, and I want nothingness. As i said this is something 'personal' and 'subjective', Im not saying that death is eternal nothingness as a "fact", it's just what I want/wish/hope it is. There are people who want some kind of 'afterlife' and that in general they don't want death to be the end and they want some another form of 'consciousness' after this one and blah blah but I don't want anything, Im just saying what I want death to be and what I hope it'll be: eternal nothingness.)
There was nothing before 'i' was born/'brought' 'here' and 'became' 'something'/'someone', 'I' was nothing before I was born so ill go back to that nothing when I die. And if 'I' was 'something'/if there was 'something' before "this existence" I dont remember at all, I don't have any 'memories' of that lol. Im speaking from my own perspective and preference, you all don't have to agree with me as this is a very 'subjective' topic.
 
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Shiv15

Shiv15

Student
Sep 3, 2020
196
Well, there is afterlife. The human brain does not create consciousness. I have had many spiritual encounters and I know what I am talking about though i know for a fact most won't believe me. Though if you do have any questions, I won't mind answering them.

But yeah, there is an afterlife. And yes you could potentially be destroyed to the point of you won't even exist but that only happens if you or someone else calls upon the beings that have the power to destroy you. Such beings/spirits do exist.

This is a nasty world we live in.
 
Gerard de Nerval

Gerard de Nerval

Ontologist
Oct 5, 2020
145
"I have no relationship with it [death], it is that toward which I cannot go, for in it I do not die, I have fallen from the power to die. In it they die; they do not cease, and they do not finish dying" -- Maurice Blanchot
 
Wayfaerer

Wayfaerer

JFMSUF
Aug 21, 2019
1,938
Oh shit, not this again.
Even if the universe repeats itself, I see no reason why we would have to experience it again as us, as the particles and chemicals which make us up now wouldn't be identical in future universes. As far as I know, and just going by the one example of our own universe, big bangs create new matter and energy, it's not a recycling of the 'old' matter/energy of previous universes. The thermonuclear conflagration of the singularity is too intense for previous particles to survive.

Just playing the devil's advocate here, but you cannot differentiate carbon atoms from other carbon atoms for instance. They all have exactly identical components (excl. isotopes): 6 protons and 6 electrons. It's not the exact matter that is relevant but the configuration. As far as continuity is concerned, we make the assumption that our consciousness is even a property of our own individual "identity," which I'd argue doesn't even exist.
 
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M

MyStateKilledMe

Arcanist
Apr 23, 2020
463
Allow me!

The Old Testament has a brief reference to the Sheol, rendered as "sheh-KHOL" in Hebrew, the Old Testatement's original language. It means "a place where nothing happens". It's exactly what the wording says: a dark place of nothingness, neither pleasant nor unpleasant. It was where all the dead people went, not just the sinners. When the New Testament was written in Greek, "Sheol" was translated as "Gehenna". Gehenna was originally a real physical location, where fiery human sacrifices took place, which was therefore cursed. The word was later reinterpreted by Peter and Paul as an anti-divine lake of fire where sinners went, thus becoming what we now know as "hell". (Jesus, on the other hand, stayed true to the Old Testament's "mission statement", and focused strictly on saving the righteous, since Judaism, with Jesus being Jewish, has no concept of hell.)

So, even as an atheist, I follow the Jewish concept of the afterlife: it's nothing. It's neither joy nor misery, at least from our human point of view. If afterlife does exist, we have no way of verifying it, since nobody ever came back from there. Well, Christians can say that Jesus did, but he never talked about what it was like. So, since we can never find out what the afterlife is like, the least uncomfortable assumption is that nothing happens there, at least when it comes to our own afterlife, and not that of our loved ones.
 
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E

esse_est_percipi

Enlightened
Jul 14, 2020
1,747
but you cannot differentiate carbon atoms from other carbon atoms for instance
Are you saying that the carbon atoms that make up e.g. yourself are identical to the carbon atoms that make up e.g. a tree in the amazon?
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Carbon atoms may be 'identical' to other carbon atoms in the sense that they are interchangeable and not distinguishable from one another, but not 'identical' in the sense that that all carbon atoms are just one and the same carbon atom.
They are type identical but not token identical. This is a crucial distinction if you wanted to use their 'identity' to argue for the continuity of the 'identity' of some entity x. But maybe I misunderstood you.
It's not the exact matter that is relevant but the configuration
That is a matter of contention if you are talking about the continuation of consciousness/subjectivity in the form of personal identity. The position you are advocating here seems to be functionalism, and it is a philosophical position which needs to be argued for. I would agree that function/configuration is important, but to what extent it is implicated in the question of personal continuity over vast periods of time is not clear.
that our consciousness is even a property of our own individual "identity," which I'd argue doesn't even exist
this is interesting. Sounds like empty individualism or even mereological nihilism. I think that there's a good case to be made that metaphysically speaking, there are no real objects with proper parts, and the only thing(s) that really exist are simple indivisibles (quarks/Planck lengths/whatever energy is at the most fundamental level).
I've also thought that individual 'identity' may be no more than an illusion, since the only thing that holds the whole thing together appears to be memories, which are (a) imperfect (b) partial and arbitrary (we only remember very specific things and not others) (c) fragile and ephemeral.

That being said, memories are still mysterious in the sense that they don't seem to be 'located' in any specific place in the brain. There are certainly parts of the brain involved with memories, but empirically, no neuroscientist has yet located the exact position of a particular memory.

There was actually a really interesting experiment done on worms to see how their memories functioned by Shomrat and Levin:

They "developed automated systems to train and test the worms, which would enable standardized and rigorous measures of how the organisms acquired and retained memories over time. And though memory RNA is still believed to be a myth, their recent research has confirmed that these worms' memories do work in astoundingly bizarre ways.

The researchers' automated system eliminated bias inherent in human observers by tracking the worms' movement across the plate by cameras and encoding their locations by computer.

The researchers' computerized system dealt with the worms, from the species Dugesia Japonica, in two groups of 72 each. One group was conditioned to live in a rough-bottomed petri dish, with the other in a smooth-bottomed one, for ten days. Both dishes were stocked with ample worm food (small pieces of beef liver), so each group was conditioned to learn that their particular surface meant "food is nearby."

Next, each group was separately put into a rough-bottomed petri dish with food located only in one quadrant, along with a bright blue LED. Flatworms typically avoid light, so spending time in that quadrant meant that their expectation of food nearby trumped their aversion to light.

As a result of their conditioning, the worms who'd lived in rough containers were much quicker to flock to the lit quadrant. The researchers had the automated system's video cameras track how long it took for the worms to spend three straight minutes under the lights, and those reared in the rough dishes took an average of six minutes to pass this number, compared to about seven and a half minutes for the other group. This difference showed that the former group had been conditioned to associate rough surfaces with food, and explored these surfaces more readily.

Afterward, all worms were fully decapitated (every bit of brain was removed) and left alone to regrow their heads over the course of the next two weeks. When they were put back in the chamber with the rough surface, the group that had previously lived in the rough dishes—that is, their previous heads had lived in the rough dishes—were still willing to venture into the lit quadrant of the rough dish and spend an extended period of time there more than a minute faster than the other group.

Incredible as it seems, some lingering memories of the rough-surface conditioning seem to have lived on in the bodies of these worms, even after their heads were chopped off. The biological explanation for this is unclear, as The Verge blog notes. Previous research confirmed that the worms' behavior is controlled by their brains, but it's possible that some of their memories may have been stored in their bodies, or that the training given to their initial heads somehow modified other parts of their nervous systems, which then altered how their new brains grew.

There's also another sort of explanation. The researchers speculate that epigenetics—changes to an organism's DNA structure that alter the expression of genes—could play a role, perhaps encoding the memory ("rough floors = food") permanently in the worms' DNA.

In that case, this strange experiment would provide yet another surprising outcome. There may not be such a thing as "memory RNA" per se, but in speculating on the role of genetic material in the retention of these worms' memories, McConnell may have been on the right track after all.
"

(quoted from an article by Joseph Stromberg)
 
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esse_est_percipi

Enlightened
Jul 14, 2020
1,747
It's not the exact matter that is relevant but the configuration
another thing; if it was theoretically possible to artificially create an identical copy of your brain, with the same configurations of atoms and neurons, would you then be two conscious beings at once?
 
J

Jean Améry

Enlightened
Mar 17, 2019
1,098
The end of existence for living beings.

You'll very likely not experience this 'eternal nothingness' as that would imply survival of consciousness after physical death which seems rather impossible.
 
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Wayfaerer

Wayfaerer

JFMSUF
Aug 21, 2019
1,938
Are you saying that the carbon atoms that make up e.g. yourself are identical to the carbon atoms that make up e.g. a tree in the amazon?
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Carbon atoms may be 'identical' to other carbon atoms in the sense that they are interchangeable and not distinguishable from one another, but not 'identical' in the sense that that all carbon atoms are just one and the same carbon atom.
They are type identical but not token identical. This is a crucial distinction if you wanted to use their 'identity' to argue for the continuity of the 'identity' of some entity x. But maybe I misunderstood you.

What I am saying is that on an atomic level, there is no detail that separates atoms but quantitatively i.e. number of protons, number of electons, and number of neutrons. As far as your example goes, yes, that is what I am saying. We are merely the sum of our parts. As far as individualism goes, I strongly lean towards empty individualism as it is the most logically consistent imo. I just can't see how it could be different. Possibly open individualism is true but that is horrifying as well because it is not only eternal but most living organisms suffer terribly. OI isn't as terrifying as ER but it's up there, at least a minority of our lives would be good or great. That's interesting about the worms. Sometimes I don't even know what to think anymore. Science hasn't progressed far enough for me to be able to CTB in peace.
 
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Werewolf

Werewolf

Without shelter
May 12, 2020
114
Death is entropy. The chemical process defined as life stops and the perceived "you" cease to exist. What happens after? There is no after.
 
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