Dear all newer members.

[penguinl0v3s]

Couldn't agree more with this statement. Hard research dissuades impulsivity and encourages informed decisions, something children are heavily susceptible to the opposite of. The more available we make information and methods (basically spoon feeding them when they can't even be arsed to look up a thread), we become responsible for their deaths. I also worry that people are "testing" us, seeing how easy it is to get advice, and then vilifying us for it elsewhere, or to themselves. I try and make sure the information I provide is very general but I'm sure I fuck up at points.

Not to mention that assisting suicide is illegal, and members should be aware of that and not get comfortable and bold with their supposed anonymity.

 

[Abyssal]

Gatekeeping, yay! You know that I already feel suicidal every time I do my research on AI services - which everyone seems to know, and I don't? That I already feel suicidal and inadequate when I see a stream of anime gifs in Discord chats - because I will never have the slightest idea how or why people save and then pick them just in time for the appropriate context?

And here, people are gatekeeping suicide methods! Which cannot be googled. And although this forum has the resources, they are utterly useless for my country because I live in the fucking Ukraine.

Yep, I gatekeep. Not afraid to admit it. If someone can't do the bare minimum of their research on their method I dislike helping them. I still help if I think they will hurt trying to ctb, but I'm not a fan.

This isn't a video game forum where I'm keeping secrets on how to level up, this is about life and death! Dare I say I have the right to gatekeep information if I deem the person is too young or impulsive.

So yeah. I gatekeep and I am proud to admit that.

 

[hi-okbye]

Yes you can find information on your own, but there are some things that are too specific that you may need to ask someone, and honesty just help them if you can.

none of us want to be here. We all want the same thing. Taking the time out of your day to give someone some advice or insight can make a huge difference.

For example, I have learned so much from people helping me, along with me doing my own research as well. The closer to death the better because that's ultimately the end goal.

I totally get this, it was more so about simple questions I keep seeing that say "can I OD on these otc med", or "how can I do partial hanging". they also croud and burry important threads which is sad too see as well.

It's absurd that he hasn't taken it down yet even though it's really clear that he didn't properly censor his video and is doing something counterproductive to his goals... so idiotic.

this! how doesn't he realize he's doing so much more harm than good at this point. he has a big following of so many kids, a nice clickbait title right on top as well.

This is probably not going to be a well-received opinion I straight up think that people who don't do their own research don't deserve to be helped in ctbing. It reads as impulsive and uninformed, which automatically makes it a bad decision. Something that shouldn't be enabled. Some questions are a Google search away too (not the 999th person asking if their overdose on totally harmless drugs is going to work), and it's annoying that the forum is being used like a search engine when it's not.

I agree to be honest. I'm not saying every single person has to stop, because there are some people (adults I'm saying), that have a harder time understanding certain things. asking specific questions after doing as much research as possible is okay. It's just important to actually do it first instead of trying to be lazy and just post a thread. that's what I notice from a lot of people, them just being lazy and trying to get people to do research for them.

Couldn't agree more with this statement. Hard research dissuades impulsivity and encourages informed decisions, something children are heavily susceptible to the opposite of. The more available we make information and methods (basically spoon feeding them when they can't even be arsed to look up a thread), we become responsible for their deaths. I also worry that people are "testing" us, seeing how easy it is to get advice, and then vilifying us for it elsewhere, or to themselves. I try and make sure the information I provide is very general but I'm sure I fuck up at points.

exactly, I try to be helpful when I can, but most of the time I'll direct them to a thread that relates to what they were asking about. (99% it was easily found guess where. In the resource compilation).

Is there a search function on this forum at all? This setup (shared by the incels forum, too) seems to lack it completely? When I wanted to search the incels forum, I just used <site:santioned-suicide.net> (or its equivalent) in Google.

yes there is, on the top right of your screen you should see a search bar. there you can look stuff up. maybe the device your using effects it though?
but great example of how you don't even need to wait for the search bar to come up.

I don't think the OP is referring to people asking very specific questions but rather to the people (usually brand new members) who ask the same basic general questions like how do I ctb with SN, what methods are there etc, things where the answer is read the suicide resource compilation because that holds the information. The OP's thread is aimed at new members who are likely confused by the site and if the forum is filled with basic questions like that it means people's threads who are looking for something very specific just get buried and are less likely to receive an answer.

I just meant to say that what you wrote in your original post in my opinion should be put at the top of the suicide discussion as a sticky thread as it may make new members less confused with the site and reduce basic questions being asked. I've seen so many new members ask about methods unaware of the resource compilation until someone mentions it. This thread title might grab people's attention.

yes that's exactly what I ment. thanks for clarifying it FuneralCry


@Myforevercharlie I was wondering, like FuneralCry said, is it possible to get this pinned at the top of new members to see? I know there's the introduction but I feel like some people don't bother to read it because it's long, or they might not even noticed it. this is short and sweet and basically explains it. I could make a new thread to be locked without replies or basically whatever changes you want. thanks!

Yep, I gatekeep. Not afraid to admit it. If someone can't do the bare minimum of their research on their method I dislike helping them. I still help if I think they will hurt trying to ctb, but I'm not a fan.

This isn't a video game forum where I'm keeping secrets on how to level up, this is about life and death! Dare I say I have the right to gatekeep information if I deem the person is too young or impulsive.

So yeah. I gatekeep and I am proud to admit that.

death is a very big choice to make, especially choosing to actively commit suicide. so yes answers on exactly what to do shouldn't just be given out free handed to everyone. this site is wonderful as it is, allowing for thousands of answers to thousands of questions. research and commitment is the only thing you need to put into it. and if your not willing to do that (not saying unable to, not willing), then in my opinion, you shouldn't be committing suicide.

 

[Aim]

Could you post this thread once a week u think?
Anyways! I agree 100% with what your saying. At the same time, and this is only my perspective on it. But it's become a community for most ages seems like and new people arrives all the time. Hard to control it!

 

[Little_Suzy]

An 18-year-old is an adult!

(1) To suicide prevention activists, just one voice matters: that of an 18-year-old with a promising future.

(2) On SaSu, we can hear straight from the horse's mouth why an 18-year-old would sooner die than live a long and prosperous life.

(3) Narcissistic parents, don't want their daughters and sons discussing sexual, emotional, financial, physical, and verbal abuse they suffered as children, as well as any thoughts of suicide, online.

(4) Narcissistic parents, seeking sympathy rather than the truth, will name Suicide Awareness Foundations and Stop Suicide Facebook Groups after their sons and daughters and blame "depression."

(5) Narcissistic parents, don't want to accept the truth and instead blame SaSu, its members, and want to shut down the site. If they want to help people like their children, why are they trying to ban SaSu?

 

[Rhizomorph1]

Realistically a real age verification via ID card / passport / Credit Card is a big threat to the anonymity here. It is used for KYC in financial related accounts. I don't see any other real option to veryify whether a user is real and 18+ or not.

Does the value of anonymity supercede the value of preventing underage access? I'm not sure that it does especially considering that orgs like exit international and similar orgs have age verification and someone like Rain – who could be the only person to access ID materials – certainly has the best intentions and privacy of users in mind.

There wouldn't be any legal issues assuming the information was immediately deleted and wasn't stored anywhere after verification.

Remaining anonymous to someone like Rain doesn't seem to have any major ethical or material benefits as far as I can see. Am I missing something?

 

[hi-okbye]

Could you post this thread once a week u think?
Anyways! I agree 100% with what your saying. At the same time, and this is only my perspective on it. But it's become a community for most ages seems like and new people arrives all the time. Hard to control it!

I'm trying to see if it can get pinned at the top, so people can just see it when they come
and I agree, but we all try our best to keep it safe.

Does the value of anonymity supercede the value of preventing underage access? I'm not sure that it does especially considering that orgs like exit international and similar orgs have age verification and someone like Rain – who could be the only person to access ID materials – certainly has the best intentions and privacy of users in mind.

There wouldn't be any legal issues assuming the information was immediately deleted and wasn't stored anywhere after verification.

Remaining anonymous to someone like Rain doesn't seem to have any major ethical or material benefits as far as I can see. Am I missing something?

the only issue with that is the amount of people that join this site, so many people join every day, and to have one person verify every single person could just be very hard.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I'm trying to see if it can get pinned at the top, so people can just see it when they come
and I agree, but we all try our best to keep it safe.

the only issue with that is the amount of people that join this site, so many people join every day, and to have one person verify every single person could just be very hard.

I suppose this is a barrier... I hope this site can find a creative solution though because I think youth accessing the site is a serious problem.

I don't have the energy atm to brainstorm a solution but I'm going to sit on it and hopefully return to this problem.

The anonymity problem could be substantial if multiple mods had access as mods likely filter through every so often and it would be challenging to ensure the trust of every mod; it would only take one to break confidentiality and accidentally doxx someone...

 

[ForeverBroken]

Yeah, for sure. I think that infamous video on YouTube has a lot to do with it. Which is ironic considering the content and message of said video.

I'm an idiot.... what video are you guys talking about?

 

[Little_Suzy]

Does the value of anonymity supercede the value of preventing underage access? I'm not sure that it does especially considering that orgs like exit international and similar orgs have age verification and someone like Rain – who could be the only person to access ID materials – certainly has the best intentions and privacy of users in mind.

There wouldn't be any legal issues assuming the information was immediately deleted and wasn't stored anywhere after verification.

Remaining anonymous to someone like Rain doesn't seem to have any major ethical or material benefits as far as I can see. Am I missing something?

We can use the internet without providing ID, so why should this site be any different? The internet has been around for 30 years!

Parents should monitor their children's internet activities, even if it involves tracking their tech.

Exit International is a paid membership service for people over the age of 50, and SaSu is a free research website like Wikipedia.

 

[edu0z]

This is probably not going to be a well-received opinion I straight up think that people who don't do their own research don't deserve to be helped in ctbing. It reads as impulsive and uninformed, which automatically makes it a bad decision. Something that shouldn't be enabled. Some questions are a Google search away too (not the 999th person asking if their overdose on totally harmless drugs is going to work), and it's annoying that the forum is being used like a search engine when it's not.

strongly agree

I always thought that the few responses in the posts requesting information for CTB were because that can be considered assisted suicide.

now it does say this in the introduction when you join this site but I've been questioning if some even read that now.

I've noticed SO many people asking for help with basic things. things that could easily be found with the slightest amount of research. I'm aware people don't have access to the search bar right away, but you always have the resource compilation, it's right on the top pinned.
I'll even link it here:

Suicide Resource Compilation

All the links to threads, videos, audio, downloads, and information found here are being made available only for educational purposes, and have been shared by users; we cannot assure the accuracy of the data. This means the way you use this data is fully your responsibility, that you need to...

sanctioned-suicide.net

I understand your tired, but it doesn't take much, even before the search function you can always look up on the "thread titles" search function:
"painless methods"
"easy methods"
Or literally whatever you want.

Choosing and exicuting a good method takes wok and planning. If you don't you're setting yourself up for failure. Not every method is as easy as it seems. Just do research. I've read the resource compilation up and down left and right, it's one of the most useful sources on here.
For heavens sake it probably has the answers of what you came here for.

So just please stop asking the same questions over and over again. Don't be lazy, do your research.

I understand how much you all want freedom, and I want you to get it. I'm saying this for your sake too. A stranger who took 30 seconds to answer your question isn't the holy grail. Only you can decide what will work best for you after doing proper research.

much love to you all <3

If what you want is to get rid of stupid questions, the best thing would be to create a blog with the resources so that access to information is more optimal. After all, most of the people who find the forum looking for information on methods do not even create an account, those who do create an account are mostly to vent.


I honestly don't know why there are so many complications with the children in the forum... it only occurs to me that it is due to legal and image problems of the forum. Because if there are children actively looking for this type of information, sooner or later they will find the forum and it doesn't matter how many KYC restrictions you put in place, they will end up being here. If it is due to moral problems, I think that not allowing them to enter the forum is probably one of the actions that will have the least impact on child suicide. There are other better actions with consequences that are not being adopted in society, but who am I to judge?

Good to know this is how you regard women.

This is childish behavior for example... if we start judging everyone this way and pointing fingers then there will be no one left in this forum.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Does the value of anonymity supercede the value of preventing underage access? I'm not sure that it does especially considering that orgs like exit international and similar orgs have age verification and someone like Rain – who could be the only person to access ID materials – certainly has the best intentions and privacy of users in mind.

There wouldn't be any legal issues assuming the information was immediately deleted and wasn't stored anywhere after verification.

Remaining anonymous to someone like Rain doesn't seem to have any major ethical or material benefits as far as I can see. Am I missing something?

It's still a lot of effort to guarantee data safety (if information is stored), if only one person has access to the ID information then only 1 person can verify. I think there are companies who do that verification stuff for clients and comply with all data security stuff but I'm pretty sure that costs money.

It'd be much better if children wouldn't become suicidal at all then they wouldn't feel the need to search for information. The roots of this problem are located far deeper in society.

 

[Aim]

I'm trying to see if it can get pinned at the top, so people can just see it when they come
and I agree, but we all try our best to keep it safe.

the only issue with that is the amount of people that join this site, so many people join every day, and to have one person verify every single person could just be very hard.

We all need to try to do our best to try contribute and to prevent this for happened I think

 

[Rhizomorph1]

We can use the internet without providing ID, so why should this site be any different? The internet has been around for 30 years!

Parents should monitor their children's internet activities, even if it involves tracking their tech.

Exit International is a paid membership service for people over the age of 50, and SaSu is a free research website like Wikipedia.

Ermm... Parents should do a lot of things that many just don't do. It's why theres an existing mental health epidemic. Although I agree with advising parents to regulate their own children, it's unrealistic to think they all will and in the meantime we can and should put safeguards in place is they're demonstrably effective.

It's like saying we shouldn't offer STI medication because "people should just practice safe sex"; but they won't always heed advice which is why risk-reduction efforts are multifaceted and intersectional with multiple points of contact across the continuum of care (prevention & aftercare AKA before, during, and after).

Unfortunately the Internet has only been around for a little over 2 decades and the problems from youth exposure to adult websites is rearing its head as those children now enter adulthood. I personally have PTSD from gore websites. Many children have warped and unrealistic expectations and communication around sex due to exposure. Kids are getting drugs off their friends' or library computers and permanently altering brain development

There's a whole host of problems with the lack of regulations. Just because it is one way doesn't mean it should be that way, as your comment insinuates. The issue is twofold, from both a lack of parental regulation (avoidant parenting; occasionally bordering on neglect), AND systematic regulation from domain hosts, indexes, policymakers, and technology producers.

Perhaps there are unstated premises in your logic (in which case be explicit), but assuming it for face value it would suggest that anything including child porn should be free to access. As such, it is not sufficient reasoning to say that "anyone can access the Internet without ID", as there are already regulations in place controlling some content.

It's still a lot of effort to guarantee data safety (if information is stored), if only one person has access to the ID information then only 1 person can verify. I think there are companies who do that verification stuff for clients and comply with all data security stuff but I'm pretty sure that costs money.

It'd be much better if children wouldn't become suicidal at all then they wouldn't feel the need to search for information. The roots of this problem are located far deeper in society.

How much does it cost? I would happily donate some of my savings for this purpose as a parting gift before I ctb. I'm sure the site could rely on donations as I doubt it costs more than a few dollars a year and most of us don't have much to lose anyways by donating a bit to protect children. I think it's feasible.

I agree that the problem is societal but as I mentioned to @Little_Suzy it is unrealistic to think the problem of suicide among children is going away anytime soon. In the meantime we can put harm reductive safeguards in place while we work towards the overarching goal of a world where children are not suicidal. We all share a responsibility, even if the cause is not our own. I really hate this type of reasoning which thwarts efforts to reduce harm because the cause is "over there". It is not useful or realistic and a lot of suffering that is currently prevented in the world would persist if this logic were ubiquitous.

It reminds me of the Davis Moore hypothesis of social inequality, which suggests social inequality is functional and benefits production chains. Unfortunately this "functionalist" perspective doesn't do anything to reduce inequality, hunger, etc. so is pretty useless at solving problems, even if it has merit as being realistically true in some sense. The same goes for the logics that parents or society should hold sole responsibility for reducing harm.

I'm not annoyed with any user directly, but I'm admittedly frustrated with a lot of society's dominant narratives and our tendencies to individualize problems. "The personal is political" -Shulamith Firestone. The solution is always collective, even if the cause was from the individual. We have a choice how to respond to the outcome.

Anyways, I digress.

 

[FlyAwayHoney]

I'm an idiot.... what video are you guys talking about?

This YouTuber, Tantacrul, made a video on this website 10 months ago. It has over 5 million views now.

 

[ropearoundatree]

I'm sorry it took so long to get in, but I'm glad you did your research!

exactly! it just really saddens me to see that kind of stuff. I wish they didnt have to feel like that :(

I"m sorry for attacking you unfairly the other day, @hi-okbye ! I truly am. I was having an exceptionally bad day, and my tolerance for stressors was not at an all time high (not that-that forgives anything...) / And so, if I were to post something instead, again - I'd only suggest that it "might," be beneficial for you to simply take into consideration, that there were perhaps others, who'd felt the same way about you - when you'd first joined (though probably about a different matter). And even if they didn't, just to keep in mind that we all have our own levels of forgiveness when it comes to 'grace-periods,' of new members. And as well as, the fact that the tastes of what bothers or in some cases, triggers us, can vary widely. :) Season to taste~ as they say! ;) And so anyway, once again, hopefully you can better understand where I was coming from as it was not my intent to blindside you like that. That was not right (by me). So I do apologize, for being (so) wrong. Take care!

P. S. I do understand however, that this may have been done in an attempt to alleviate whatever stressor was bothering you about said topic. And also, to educate & to inform. So I don't fault you for it (the post, in the first place_). . .

 

[dizzdesi]

Yes I think that newer members have trouble navigating in general. I mean--so many posts in the suicide forum don't pertain to suicide whatsoever. Many of them belong in the offtopic forum

 

[ForeverBroken]

This YouTuber, Tantacrul, made a video on this website 10 months ago. It has over 5 million views now.