Dangers of "legalizing" suicide

[Jodes]

I can imagine it turning nasty after 50 years knowing humans. Kill old & disabled people, you name it

 

[therhydler]

I guess a LOT of people would kill themselves if it was easier.

 

[Jodes]

I guess a LOT of people would kill themselves if it was easier.

Exactly. So why would governments spend money helping poeople with their lives when they can just make suicide easy. Especially for whatever minorities or classes of people, or political leanings they'd want gone. E.g. raise racial tensions like Trump. You know he'd do it!!

 

[LiveSlowDieFast]

I also wondered if there would be disabled or especially old people who would feel pressured into it. Taking care of someone who is sick is extremely difficult and exhausting. It'd be extremely sad if there were old people who want to continue to fight, but are treated like a burden by their family or at least feel like they are.

 

[TAW122]

I also wondered if there would be disabled or especially old people who would feel pressured into it. Taking care of someone who is sick is extremely difficult and exhausting. It'd be extremely sad if there were old people who want to continue to fight, but are treated like a burden by their family or at least feel like they are.

I could see that potential problem, so maybe there should be a system in place where the elderly and disabled that WANT to continue living, has the choice to do so and allow the people who (truly) WANT to help them (bathe, clothe, everyday tasks, necessities, feed, nurture, etc.) do so. This way the people who want to go can have their peace, thus freeing up more resources for the people who WANT to stay in this life.

 

[therhydler]

I could see that potential problem, so maybe there should be a system in place where the elderly and disabled that WANT to continue living, has the choice to do so and allow the people who (truly) WANT to help them (bathe, clothe, everyday tasks, necessities, feed, nurture, etc.) do so. This way the people who want to go can have their peace, thus freeing up more resources for the people who WANT to stay in this life.

This is a great idea. There are a lot of people who would be willing to help

 

[LiveSlowDieFast]

I could see that potential problem, so maybe there should be a system in place where the elderly and disabled that WANT to continue living, has the choice to do so and allow the people who (truly) WANT to help them (bathe, clothe, everyday tasks, necessities, feed, nurture, etc.) do so. This way the people who want to go can have their peace, thus freeing up more resources for the people who WANT to stay in this life.

I mean, fair, but at least here in my country the whole nursing system is pretty badly overloaded due to a lack of personell and there is lots of horror stories of old people being mistreated or not receiving proper care because of that. I could see some old people finding themselves in a pretty shitty spot of having to choose between either a really shitty nursing home because they can't afford anything better or being taken care of by a family that doesn't really want to, unfortunately.

 

[Severen]

I can imagine it turning nasty after 50 years knowing humans. Kill old & disabled people, you name it

A small price to pay for all the good it will do.

 

[Jodes]

A small price to pay for all the good it will do.

A bit selfish of us if it turns into mass genocide. Just saying....

 

[Letmego. Please]

As much as i would love to see assisted suicide for everyone, as a humanitarian idea, i really don't trust humanity not to abuse it for their own gain...

 

[Severen]

A bit selfish of us if it turns into mass genocide. Just saying....

But is that suffering from mass genocide greater than the suffering of millions or billions of people who despise their lives but can't CTB or won't CTB because it's not legal? And I'm selfish as fuck so in the end, if I have to, I will put myself, first, no matter the cost. And suicide made legal, would help make life easier for me.

 

[Jodes]

But is that suffering from mass genocide greater than the suffering of millions or billions of people who despise their lives but can't CTB or won't CTB because it's not legal? And I'm selfish as fuck so in the end, if I have to, I will put myself, first, no matter the cost. And suicide made legal, would help make life easier for me.

Its like the question of increasingly more intelligent and dangerously weaponized AI. Hard to forsee. But Im a general cynic

 

[Severen]

I'd rather not have to make that choice but if I'm backed into a corner, I will choose myself, every time.

 

[Severen]

Its like the question of increasingly more intelligent and dangerously weaponized AI. Hard to forsee. But Im a general cynic and pain in the bum

Well A.I. past a certain point really doesn't benefit anyone on this planet except the bourgeoisie but it will only benefit them temporarily because eventually it will lead to humans destroying all A.I. along with killing all the bourgeoisie or A.I. enslaving or wiping out humanity.

 

[[NoName]]

This is one of the few pro-life arguments I agree with, people in power will always find ways to either exploit or get rid of those not in power.

In the US during the eugenics movement, people deemed "undesirable" were sterilized to prevent them from having children.

The US also funded the Tuskegee experiments on poor African Americans. They purposefully prevented those men who had syphilis from getting help even when penicillin was found to work against it. They actually told doctors ahead of time to not give them any treatment. Why? So they could see the full effects of the disease in order to help future, more "desirable" patients.

At the same time, even if the government or others abuse a system where suicide can be done in a clinic or something we still have a right over our own bodies.

 

[Jiva]

It isn't important a suicide is "legal" or "illegal". It will be a tabu always. And who wants really die, he/she will die. Nothing can stop him/her.

 

[Anima]

A lot of people against suicide talk about the "slippery slope" argument. Once you legalise it there is not turning back and it will inevitably lead to some form of abuse. I do understand that there are dangers to setting up a system which allows people to die willingly. The documentary "How to die in Oregon" is quite an interesting documentary about assisted suicide. It shows both the good and the bad sides. Setting up a huge machinery deciding on individual cases might not be the way. I know that it works well in some countries and that the overall number of people getting cleareance is moderate. Of course certain things always need to be taken into account: who benefits? What might be the reasons people come to the decision of wanting to end their lives (elderly, not wanting to burden family members) etc.. In my opinion it should always be something between patient and doctor. Not every doctor agrees with it and that's fine. However, those who do should be able to support there patients. Dementia and psychiatric disorders are more difficult to discuss, so they should first and foremost concentrate on those people with incurable diseases, because there is scientific proof that even palliative care does not help in 10% of cases. That's where they should start - not clinging to silly religious values that have no place in today's world.

 

[Zzzzz]

It isn't important a suicide is "legal" or "illegal". It will be a tabu always. And who wants really die, he/she will die. Nothing can stop him/her.

I disagree. If suicide was legal, it would be a lot easier to do. A lot of the people on this site would already be gone .

 

[Zzzzz]

What about the dangers of not legalizing suicide? Millions of people suffering under unbearable circumstances that they cannot escape . And it's happening right now. Legalizing suicide would be the most humane choice for the current state of humanity, incredible suffering everywhere. It would cause very few problems. Now assisted suicide is a different story. That is when someone else performs the act on behalf of the person who wants to die, such as injecting the individual with a lethal injection. This would require many safeguards in order to protect the vulnerable, but it can be done. Legalizing suicide would not be a danger to humanity at all.

 

[ReadyasEver]

There was a time, occasionally, when people in governmental power could have a reasonable discussion that led to centric and humane decisions. I feel that time has past us in most of the world. Resources are becoming scarce for many counties of the world, especially Europe and the Pacific rim. The US, Canada, Australia, and possibly Russia are just a few that could sustain themselves with little help from the rest of world, especially pertaining to energy, water, food, minerals, and timber. People are either going to be viewed as a positive to garner resources, or as a consumer of resources that could be used elsewhere. Knowing a little about history, I do not like the analysis I'm coming up with in my head concerning life decisions. My hunch, they will initially try to make assisted suicide a reasonable and fair process. Over time, as someone mentioned, I feel it will become an instrument to eliminate the undesirables. Just keep it the way it is, to remove the stigma and legality of it.

 

[Final Escape]

Exactly. So why would governments spend money helping poeople with their lives when they can just make suicide easy. Especially for whatever minorities or classes of people, or political leanings they'd want gone. E.g. raise racial tensions like Trump. You know he'd do it!!

Governments love creating suffering and making it difficult for u to escape the slavery system. You make corporations money just by being alive, even if u do nothing to contribute. You still have to eat, basic medical care, or somebody has to support u in some way if u aren't able to do it yourself. I'm not sure what government thinks of homeless people, it does surprise me that they don't give homeless destitute people a humane way out. Again it would be much too kind and humane lol! Can't have that. I'm not implying homeless destitute people should be killed, but if you're goin to allow people to slip through the cracks at least give them some humane options.

 

[Life sucks]

The thing is political and nothing more. Who "legalize"?

Killing, wars and atrocities were legal so the pro-life argument is wrong. They don't want you to control your life and choose life or death. They want to control it, they'll kill you or let you live depending on their needing. Fuck this life and fuck their systems

 

[Jiva]

I disagree. If suicide was legal, it would be a lot easier to do. A lot of the people on this site would already be gone .

I disagree. Overcome this law isn't too difficult, overcome the survival instinct is more difficult. I know it. Sorry.

 

[FrannyZoe18]

Exactly. So why would governments spend money helping poeople with their lives when they can just make suicide easy. Especially for whatever minorities or classes of people, or political leanings they'd want gone. E.g. raise racial tensions like Trump. You know he'd do it!!

Jodes - I was thinking the same thing but was afraid to say it.

 

[TAW122]

Upon further thought, I was thinking that a small compromise would probably be better for both parties, society's majority (pro-lifers) and the suicidal people (us). If pro-lifers fear that outright legalization would allow rampant abuse (even with many screenings, safeties, checks in place), then perhaps destigmatization and doing away with involuntary commitment (unless the person is a direct danger to others like threats to grievously harm others or death -- in which case, it would be a criminal matter rather than a public health matter). This way, not only would people be more open and likely to seek help (if it's not forced or mandated) and the amounts of suicides would go down. Also, if someone fails a suicide attempt but did not put others' at risk or in danger, then he/she would just be sent on his/her merry way, no forced hospitalization and what not.

Some examples:
Scenario #1
Suicidal person tries to hang him/herself, but failed and is interrupted and discovered by a loved one. The loved one calls medical personnel, and law enforcement. They investigate the person and the claim, but after a brief interaction, they tell the loved one not to call them anymore and maybe just encourages the suicidal person to seek help (but never forcing him/her into an ambulance or psych ward against his/her will). Also, no litigation against law enforcement or medical personnel as they are obligated to respect one's free will and are protected by such a new law.

Scenario #2.1
Suicidal person calls suicide prevention hotline. The hotline tries to talk down the suicidal person, but doesn't trace the phone call, nor sends authorities to the person's place (unless the person was directly threatening to harm other people - which would then be a criminal matter). The hotline fails to talk the person down and instead decides just to let the suicidal person to his/her own business. Also, no litigation against the hotline as they are obligated to respect the free will of the suicidal caller.

Scenario #2.2
Similar to #2.1, but in a clinical setting with a psychiatrist, counselor, therapist, psychologist, mental health professional, etc.. The patient talks about wanting to commit suicide. The mental health professional (MHP) listens and discourages said patient. However, at no point does the MHP threaten to call, section, or force the patient into hospitalization against his/her will unless said patient has a clear and present danger towards others (threatening to harm others and what not - which again, would become a criminal matter instead of a mental health issue). Finally, no litigation as MHP are protected by a special law that guarantees immunity and demands respect of the patient's free will.

Now I know all of these would not happen because there has to be a change in law, policy, as well as the societal values and view on suicide itself. These are just hypothetical scenarios of what I can see that can happen if destigmatization and abolishment of involuntary commitment or forced treatment will do. I wish that someday society will reach that point, but in 2018 almost fucking 2019, I don't see this happening in my lifetime (if it does happen ever). Therefore, people will continue to hide and lie, and ultimately someday they ctb. Society is just too fucked beyond reasoning, logic, and sense to admit their faults since it's easier to sweep it under the rug, bandwagon, and believe in lies without question.

 

[Zzzzz]

I disagree. Overcome this law isn't too difficult, overcome the survival instinct is more difficult. I know it. Sorry.

Survival instinct will always be difficult to overcome, but it certainly would most likely be easier to overcome if suicide was fully condoned and permitted. Suicidal people wouldn't have to worry about a painful or violent method. They wouldn't have to worry about being resuscitated either. Two things that prevent a lot of people from CTB.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

A bit selfish of us if it turns into mass genocide. Just saying....

That is only a good thing, humanity is a decease and is a threat to all life on this planet both nature and animals.

 

[Jodes]

That is only a good thing, humanity is a decease and is a threat to all life on this planet both nature and animals.

There are a couple of books about that on Amazon, was planning on giving one a go. It obviously completely assumes humanity doesn't change balance for the better. I think its just that a lot of the worst of humanity spread. No different to animals or bacteria, it's just about blind competition to survive, so why be scornful about that. But we're showing piss poor ability to apply our best of humanity globally and universally. It sucks

 

[azucaramargo]

rather be dead by assisted suicide (which is painless) than not be offered a job due to racism

That is a sad state of affairs, R. I was reading that that place in Switzerland, Dignitas, that does the assisted suicide, that they charge like $7k USD. I think if I had that much dough I would not want to ctb.

 

[Severen]

That is a sad state of affairs, R. I was reading that that place in Switzerland, Dignitas, that does the assisted suicide, that they charge like $7k USD. I think if I had that much dough I would not want to ctb.

And they don't just help anyone CTB. You have to meet all these requirements.