Discussion current or former sex workers

[Smilla]

At what point do the responses of members who choose not to indulge in this subversive, twisted effort become valid?

Yet, there is nothing beyond anecdotal reports to support your claim. I'd appreciate some well published, repeated scientific studies that in any way support your claim. I have found none that are based in science, which from my perspective, is what I am willing to put my faith in here. History, is also not being accurately stated in your comment. Facts, data, would be helpful here, please. Thank you.

Study after study after study has shown that kids raised by single moms due to death or divorce of bio father have significantly far worse outcomes in adulthood.

Not sure about "single by choice Moms" but it's been shown again and again and again that childhood separation of bio parents is harmful to children—and it's NOT normal at all to raise children without both parents—there is always a loss there, whether socioeconomic or emotional or both.

 

[Smilla]

Society has not been patriarchal since the state stepped in and created matriarchal policies. Patriarchy still exists, but it's becoming wiped out especially in the lower socioeconomic classes. These days in the US, women have rights over men. Families led by women are not patriarchy. Kids become more at risk of abuse when they have no bio dad living with them.

Amen

 

[Threads]

Study after study after study has shown that kids raised by single moms due to death or divorce of bio father have significantly far worse outcomes in adulthood.

I will start posting studies backing this upon request.

 

[Johnnythefox]

Study after study after study has shown that kids raised by single moms due to death or divorce of bio father have significantly far worse outcomes in adulthood.

Not sure about "single by choice Moms" but it's been shown again and again and again that childhood separation of bio parents is harmful to children—and it's NOT normal at all to raise children without both parents—there is always a loss there, whether socioeconomic or emotional or both.

Thanks for saying that, as my ex always said, the kids are fine! It's just reinforced my own belief that it has damage far beyond childhood..

 

[Smilla]

I will start posting studies backing this upon request.

Awesome. Requested—as time allows!

 

[Threads]

I am not posting these studies to create an environment which attacks single mothers. Being a single parent is a brutal process, and is equivalent to playing life on 'Nightmare Mode.' These studies exist to reflect that reality. Not to paint a negative picture on the brave and courageous women who raise their children without the help of a father.


https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2000.00533.x

Compared with children raised in single‐mother families created by the death of the father, children raised in divorced single‐mother families have significantly lower levels of education, occupational status, and happiness in adulthood. Yet divorced single mothers are not significantly different than their widowed counterparts in child rearing, gender role, and family values and in religiosity, health‐related behaviors, and other dimensions of lifestyle. However, relative to widowed single mothers, divorced single mothers hold lower occupational positions, are more financially stressed, and have a higher rate of participation in the paid labor force. We speculate that the contrasting positions in the social structure of different types of single‐mother families may account for observed differences in child outcomes

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1353/dem.2004.0033

In this article, I argue that the trends associated with the second demographic transition are following two trajectories and leading to greater disparities in children's resources. Whereas children who were born to the most-educated women are gaining resources, in terms of parents' time and money, those who were born to the least-educated women are losing resources. The forces behind these changes include feminism, new birth control technologies, changes in labor market opportunities, and welfare-state policies. I contend that Americans should be concerned about the growing disparity in parental resources and that the government can do more to close the gap between rich and poor children.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953607001542

We examined the association between parenting young children and smoking among US single women compared with married women, and whether this effect is moderated by socioeconomic status and race/ethnicity. Our main finding is that having children reduces smoking except among single white women, and women with low income. We used the Tobacco Use Supplement of the Current Population Survey, a nationally representative dataset (1995–96, n=70,019). Log-binomial regression analysis was used to estimate the association between parenting responsibility (i.e., presence of children aged 0–4 and 5–17) and daily smoking status, after taking into consideration marital status, income, and race/ethnicity. Single women faced a higher risk of smoking than married women. Parenting was protective against smoking among married women but not among single women. Additionally, among single women, the associations between parenting and smoking varied by income and race/ethnicity. Parenting increased the risk of smoking among single women in the lowest income quartile. Single black and Hispanic women with children had a risk of smoking similar to that of their childless counterparts. However, single white women with children were more likely to smoke than their childless counterparts. Smoking cessation interventions and programs to reduce environmental tobacco smoke should recognize that the co-occurrence of single motherhood, parenting responsibility and low-income may increase the risk of smoking. This is particularly significant given the rapid growth of the single women population, and their concentration in poverty in the USA. The finding that parenting is protective against smoking among single minority women, who presumably experience significant stressors, calls for a more thorough investigation of smoking behavior among minority women, and suggests the importance of stress buffers such as social support.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J134v06n02_04

U.S. women have higher poverty rates than women in other affluent nations. In this paper I attempt to explain this disparity by examining the effect of single motherhood, employment, and social assistance on women's poverty. With cross-national comparisons of quantitative data, I find that the relatively high rate of single motherhood among U.S. women is not a main cause of their high poverty rates. Compared to their counterparts in other Western nations, U.S. women, mothers and single mothers are among the most likely to earn poverty wages. In addition, U.S. social assistance programs are the least effective in reducing poverty. I conclude with the policy implications of my findings, focusing on strategies to ameliorate the high poverty rates of U.S. women and mothers.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2003.00876.x

Cohabitation is a family form that increasingly includes children. We use the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health to assess the well‐being of adolescents in cohabiting parent stepfamilies (N= 13,231). Teens living with cohabiting stepparents often fare worse than teens living with two biological married parents. Adolescents living in cohabiting stepfamilies experience greater disadvantage than teens living in married stepfamilies. Most of these differences, however, are explained by socioeconomic circumstances. Teenagers living with single unmarried mothers are similar to teens living with cohabiting stepparents; exceptions include greater delinquency and lower grade point averages experienced by teens living with cohabiting stepparents. Yet mother's marital history explains these differences. Our results contribute to our understanding of cohabitation and debates about the importance of marriage for children.

 

[Smilla]

Oh, yes...all the ways to earn a living. Those who earn a living in an "illegal" or otherwise stigmatized manner, still pay a tax of sorts. We all do in one way or another. Everyone has to eat...

Curious why you keep hanging out on this thread?

Do you have something against sex workers, because your tone is dismissive and aggressive.

 

[Smilla]

Let's not get too sentimental, though.

Brave and courageous are not adjectives I would apply to single parents who knowingly raised kids without a father via intentional pregnancy or divorce. Nothing to applaud there.

And it's rather sick that divorced Moms are put into the same basket with widowed Moms...

If Dad is still around to pay bills and parent then you aren't a single Mom.

Tired of this, but good articles (have to get through them tonight).

 

[Threads]

More studies

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673603123240

Growing up in a single-parent family has disadvantages to the health of the child. Lack of household resources plays a major part in increased risks. However, even when a wide range of demographic and socioeconomic circumstances are included in multivariate models, children of single parents still have increased risks of mortality, severe morbidity, and injury.

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/24/2/234.short

This study suggests that children from single-mother families are at risk of poorer metabolic control and that these families have more challenges to face when raising a child with a chronic illness. Implications point to a need for developing strategies sensitive to the challenges of single mothers

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10964-006-9137-3

Youth from single-parent families report lower educational aspirations than those from two-parent families. This study explored the influence of background factors (gender, grade, parental education and SES), parental involvement with education, academic self-concept, and peer influences on educational aspirations. The participants were Canadian adolescents; 2751 from two parent and 681 from single-parent families. ANOVA results showed that adolescents from single-parent families scored significantly lower than adolescents from intact families on educational aspirations, and other predictor variables. Hierarchical regression analysis showed that the pattern of relationships between educational aspirations and other factors was very similar for adolescents from both types of families; namely academic self-concept significantly predicted educational aspirations. The family involvement and background factors predicted educational aspirations via academic self-concept. Having academically oriented peers was especially beneficial to adolescents from single-parent families. Implications for intervention programs are discussed.

https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/e/9781351513319/chapters/10.4324/9780203789001-8

This chapter focuses on the behavioral and emotional reactions of children during paternal incarceration, emphasizing particularly the effects on boys. It considers both sons' and daughters' reactions while emphasizing, when possible, the specific effects of paternal incarceration on boys. Friedman and Esselstyn studied teacher ratings of children in California whose fathers had been incarcerated. M. Rutter evaluated the effects of long-term separation on children who had been involved in two epidemiological studies. One group consisted of children in small towns on the Isle of Wight; the second group consisted of children living in an urban setting in London. J. S. Wallerstein has reviewed an extensive body of literature related to the effects of divorce on children. The chapter presents a complex challenge to clinicians, researchers, and social policy planners. Family attitudes, financial problems, social isolation, and social stigma were major problems confronting the families of the imprisoned parents

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00148-018-0704-1

Between 1950 and 1970, the number of public housing units in the United States grew nearly sixfold, and the percentage of births to unmarried women almost tripled. We provide the first estimates of the effect of public housing on single motherhood, using individual-level data to assess whether young women living near higher concentrations of public housing were more likely to have children out of wedlock. We find a strong and positive relationship between public housing and single motherhood for black high school dropouts. This link is larger when we use lagged measures of public housing, which suggests that exposure during childhood may be driving the result.

 

[Threads]

Let's not get too sentimental, though.

Brave and courageous are not adjectives I would apply to single parents who knowingly raised kids without a father via intentional pregnancy or divorce. Nothing to applaud there.

And it's rather sick that divorced Moms are put into the same basket with widowed Moms...

If Dad is still around to pay bills and parent then you aren't a single Mom.

Tired of this, but good articles (have to get through them tonight).

It's interesting how this thread naturally transitioned from sex work to the discussion of matriarchy and eventually to single mothers.

This is indeed a thread, I will be actively monitoring.

 

[Smilla]

More studies

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673603123240


http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/24/2/234.short



https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10964-006-9137-3



https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/e/9781351513319/chapters/10.4324/9780203789001-8



https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00148-018-0704-1

All bad. Single families are NOT a good idea, and even worse if it's the result of divorce of death.

Thanks for posting these. Much respect.

 

[FrannyZoe18]

Don't get me started on taxes Threads lol.

ReadyasEver - you read my mind. Thanks for the perspective!

 

[DeletedUser4739]

Curious why you keep hanging out on this thread?

Do you have something against sex workers, because your tone is dismissive and aggressive.

Still waiting for the above stated resources.

Nope. I apologize that my tone is being received by you as dismissive and aggressive. I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[longingforrelease]

Yes I struggle bad with the shame and it can get lonely. What websites could u recommend? Can I process shame without a therapist? I've struggled with toxic shame all my life starting with the effects of my narcissistic mother and probably the sexual abuse at age 10 didn't help.

Hi, I'm really sorry for the delayed reply. I've been taking something of a break from SS and this thread in particular. But I've just done a little searching and I've found some things that might be of interest to you. Unfortunately, what I most wanted to find for you was a really great blog written by a sex worker in Minneapolis who talked a lot about how to cope with the many challenges of sex work. That blog is now gone but someone posted one of her entries here. I've found several pro-sex work activist sites too, but from different parts of the world, so they may not all be focused on the issues that matter to you. This one SWEAT is based in South Africa and mainly seems to emphasize decriminalization. But it's my view that decriminalization is only one step to improving the conditions for sex workers (safety, ,etc.) but a second and perhaps even more important issue is de-stigmatization, for it is stigma that is the source of shame you carry around. I have also found research reports on stigma and there does does seem to be a bias toward working with a therapist, I'm afraid. As one report put it, "Problems such as stigma, work-related stress, and financial concerns often result in an increasing need for competent mental health services. The need for such services is made more complex because sex workers are stigmatized, discriminated against, prosecuted, and harassed, often resulting in traumatic experiences based on their identities as sex workers. " BUT, the critical issue is that it's got to be a therapist who has training in this specific area! The same report goes on to say, "From a practice-focused standpoint, psychologists must be competent and knowledgeable about sex workers before treating them. Such knowledge should include language and hierarchies used to refer to sex worker communities, ... psychological symptoms presented by sex workers, and strengths and resilience qualities of sex workers. Psychologists engaged in the provision of mental health services should continually engage in self-education, self-reflection, overall self-knowledge of attitudes, knowledge, and skills surrounding sex work." If you would like, I'd be happy to post some of those reports here if you think they'd be helpful. And if I find more activist sites that do offer specific information or managing the problems associated with sex work, like shame, I'm be sure to make them available. I wish you nothing but peace .

 

[azucaramargo]

thank you for sharing your experience and feelings about them. One thing I learned during my 2-year period of involvement with escorts, including one that you could say evolved into more of a SD/SB thing, is that women (and of course some men too) enter the industry for a wide variety of reasons. But one of the most common, no, I'd say emphatically the most common reason, is economic need. Young people facing a tight labor market with no job experience, few marketable skills, and often with strained or no relationship with family are confronted with choices that people not in their shoes simply can't comprehend. I'm so sorry that you have to carry the weight of shame from your experience, but if it's any consolation, the SD/SB phenomenon is exploding so you are soooo not alone in having made the choices you made And I'd also add - and this is not in any way meant as a way for me to lessen my own burden of guilt, shame and remorse for my experience -- there is a growing number of people (sex workers, activists, lawyers who specialize in cases related to the sex industry, and even politicians in some countries (Canada comes to mind because my SB was a Canadian escort and they have been in the process of decriminalizing escorting) who are working not only to make conditions of sex work safer but to reduce the stigma attached to sex work. I came to believe, in fact, that mere decriminalization of sex work will fail to improve the conditions in which sex workers operate, nor do anything to lessen the emotional impact on sex workers in terms of shame.

Case in point: my escort/sb in Canada texted me one day to tell me she had just been beaten up by a client. A client she had been seeing for sometime. Being in the US at the time, I wasn't there to offer her much in the way of comfort or support. But I did ask if she called the police - after all, Canada had just decriminalized escorting (well sort of, actually, escorts are legally allowed to offer their services for pay, but the "John" can still be arrested for soliciting those services.). Anyway, she told me that no, she wasn't going to call the police. I asked why not, since according to Canadian law she hadn't done anything illegal, and she was clearly a victim of a violent assault. Her reply taught me an important lesson. She wasn't going to contact the police, she explained, because even though the law had changed, she knew that as soon as she told the police that the assault was perpetrated by a client (i.e., that she is an escort) they were going to do nothing about it, and implicitly or even explicitly, blame her for the assault because she is an escort. A version of the "she asked for it" or "she knew what she was getting into" shaming game played against sex workers all over the world. This is all to say that in my view, the shame you carry around with you is in great measure not actually the result of choices you made about what to do with your body and how and with whom your will express your sexuality, and under what terms, but rather the way our societies have so terribly stigmatized sex work of any kind, including legal SB/SD relationships. I do really hope that you find a way to come to better terms with yourself and your experience and thus relieve yourself of the shame you continue to experience. If you want or think it might might, I can recommend some readings and websites that might help you process your emotions. Either way, I wish for you all the peace you so deserve. And I thank you again for sharing your experience and feelings. blessings to you...

That was SO kind of you, LFR--to make me feel better about having sought out sugar daddies. You said it about the economic need. Just out of curiosity, did the fact that your SB was doing what she did because she needed money, did that lessen the enjoyment of the "rendevous" for you? My two SB/SD relationships were contingent upon my pretending that I loved both of the guys. Both guys were obese, btw. Just FYI. That was really kind of you to assuage my guilt, LFR. Also, you're very kind to keep in touch with your SB out of concern. Very kind of you to consider the plight of the sex worker, I think. Thank you again.

 

[longingforrelease]

That was SO kind of you, LFR--to make me feel better about having sought out sugar daddies. You said it about the economic need. Just out of curiosity, did the fact that your SB was doing what she did because she needed money, did that lessen the enjoyment of the "rendevous" for you? My two SB/SD relationships were contingent upon my pretending that I loved both of the guys. Both guys were obese, btw. Just FYI. That was really kind of you to assuage my guilt, LFR. Also, you're very kind to keep in touch with your SB out of concern. Very kind of you to consider the plight of the sex worker, I think. Thank you again.

I'm so pleased what I said may have helped you feel better in some small way! As for my my relationship with my SB, there could be no real belief on my part that this was anything other than what it was. She was an escort in Canada and I lived in the US. I do believe that she came to have strong feelings for me, and at times, I believed I was falling in love with her. But that was just the foolishness of an older man who was, at th time, actually rather seriously mentally ill -- a major manic phase characterized by hypersexuality (I'm bipolar). But despite those conflicted feelings, I knew in my heart where things stood. And in fact, she continued as an escort and that didn't bother me at all. Through my experience with her, learning her story (it's got some dark chapters) I came to have a better understanding of her world and the challenges that world poses for her and so many like her. Again, I'm so pleased what I happened to say helped you in some way. That's really great and I appreciate you sharing that with me .
peace to you,
b

 

[azucaramargo]

You're a good dude, LFR. My diagnosis is borderline personality disorder. At one point, they thought I had bipolar II, but I don't can't go without sleep for several days, so that ruled me out, or something. But, I do take a mood stabilizer, and when I get off that, the hypersexuality is a real b$tch. Really happy that you have addressed that issue in the forum. So hard to talk about. I remember you said you usually took Abilify, but couldn't get it in the small town where you are now. How are you able to function without it? That's cool that you CAN, but I'm just curious. I think I'm going back Asia, too, as well. So hard to get along in the U.S. after 7 years away. I really wish your ex would give you another a chance. You seem so clued-in to your illness, if I may. Anyway, I really appreciate your writing to me. Hope everything is going well. Do you like your students there?

 

[longingforrelease]

You're a good dude, LFR. My diagnosis is borderline personality disorder. At one point, they thought I had bipolar II, but I don't can't go without sleep for several days, so that ruled me out, or something. But, I do take a mood stabilizer, and when I get off that, the hypersexuality is a real b$tch. Really happy that you have addressed that issue in the forum. So hard to talk about. I remember you said you usually took Abilify, but couldn't get it in the small town where you are now. How are you able to function without it? That's cool that you CAN, but I'm just curious. I think I'm going back Asia, too, as well. So hard to get along in the U.S. after 7 years away. I really wish your ex would give you another a chance. You seem so clued-in to your illness, if I may. Anyway, I really appreciate your writing to me. Hope everything is going well. Do you like your students there?

Wow, that's really an especially welcome reply. THANK YOU! I had never heard of hypersexuality until my world crashed, started to come out of my manic phase and began to take stock of all the damage I had done to my life. I don't recall where I first came across the concept but I remember reading that it's even a fairly taboo subject (perhaps that's too strong a word) in the therapeutic community. Certainly there's not enough public knowledge about it. But the more I read, the more I realized what I had just been through. And it made sense of so much. And it was for me, as I've heard from a few others here, fucking devastating to my life. So I'm glad to see that others are talking about it here.

As for abilify here in Thailand, I'm doing ok without it. I'm just trying to stay vigilant, ,try as best I can to regulate my sleep, which is hard with my work -- I often have to stay up late preparing for lectures, etc. Always a last minute guy! And as for my students, I do like them. I love teaching and working with young adults -- except when they plagiarize their essays as a student did this week -- for the second time this semester in my class. That kid must think I'm a total moron! Other than that kind of shit, it's a great gig. Wouldn't want to do anything else. I tried, when I got fired from my last university, and it only proved to me that this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

So you are from Asia and maybe coming back? Did I get that right? What part? No doubt Asia will welcome you back with open arms, especially this Land of a Thousand Smiles!

blessings to you,
b

 

[azucaramargo]

Thank you for another thoroughly entertaining post. In the bipolar community, hypersexuality is oft addressed becaused it's a reality for those folks. That was funny about your Thai student trying to get away with his plagiarized essay. 7 years in Asia, and I remember well that phenomenon. Sometimes it really annoyed me. You know, as a teacher. I'm not Asian. I'm a white American who went to Asia for 7 years to dodge the U.S. financial crisis. 6 of those years were in China, the 7th in Saudi Arabia. Now, I'm living with my folks in South Carolina, trying to start anew in the U.S. Has not been going very well, and especially around these God-forsaken holidays when more successful siblings have come home to roost, I am "dying" (excuse the pun) to ctb. But, don't have cojónes to do it. Do you celebrate Christmas? If so, what's going on for you this holiday?

 

[alwaystired96]

Well before I got pregnant I use to strip at a club. It was easy money and if I was depressed I could just not work for a while and be okay. Men treated me like trash. They would constantly try to touch me in places I did not want to be touched and whip their dick out in vip. They were very forceful and knew we needed money and would offer large amounts of money for extras or would just try to get you as drunk as possible and take advantage of you. I had a guy put his finger in my butthole and one guy choke me. The managers at most of the clubs were male and wouldnt care what happened to you. They just wanted their cut at the end of the night. My uber driver sexually assaulted me because he figured he was picking up a stripper and no one cared. Working in a strip club made me not like men at all.

 

[kkatt]

In answer to the first question,there are a few ways of looking at it. Some will say it is purely Male oppression but there are other factors.
Remember there are many male escorts and not just gay escorts either. Obviously escorts are primarily female,but there is also an element of power to be found in receiving money for sex. Most women I've known (like myself), worked to maintain a drug habit. But I do know of ladies that do it because it's a job where they can earn reasonable money with flexible hours and holidays.
Tax is massively important,especially in the UK right now. The government is trying to close Adultwork.com and Vivastreet.co.uk as they are the two most widely used sites escorts here use for advertising.
Sites like this provide a degree of safeguarding,allowing ladies to work without a pimp and there are sites linked with reports about "dodgy" punters. But the UK government has no concern for their safety and is only worried about the tax money they might be loosing out on. Inevitably, this would lead to assaults, involvement of pimps and perhaps even murders (prostitution has long been a foundation for rapist/murderers to find their victims).
I read this thread a few days ago but didn't want to post. I think most women who've spent time in sex work feel that way. So this is really all I wanted to say.

 

[azucaramargo]

Well before I got pregnant I use to strip at a club. It was easy money and if I was depressed I could just not work for a while and be okay. Men treated me like trash. They would constantly try to touch me in places I did not want to be touched and whip their dick out in vip. They were very forceful and knew we needed money and would offer large amounts of money for extras or would just try to get you as drunk as possible and take advantage of you. I had a guy put his finger in my butthole and one guy choke me. The managers at most of the clubs were male and wouldnt care what happened to you. They just wanted their cut at the end of the night. My uber driver sexually assaulted me because he figured he was picking up a stripper and no one cared. Working in a strip club made me not like men at all.

Dear AlwaysTired96, I don't know how I missed this post before, but I really thought it was brave and well-written. For me, describing a situation "clearly" requires like 8 pages, and I feel so close to the situation that all those pages don't even give an accurate account of what I'm experiencing.

You, on the other hand, managed to paint a raw and vivid portrait of that time of your life--in just a few paragraphs. I am applying sorry the men that you encountered at that club we're so vile.

I never really appreciated how difficult LEAVING the stripping business was until I read the essays of former stripper Elissa Wald.

Here is a link to that essay, which is called "Notes from the Catwalk." She, like you, describes the despicable behavior of customers and bouncers. Please take a look at this essay because I think your writing is on par with hers.

Hope you have a happy new year, and I love you and your contribution to this site.

https://www.creativenonfiction.org/online-reading/notes-catwalk