Swisher

Swisher

Black as coal
Sep 9, 2018
388
Hi,
I've second guessed myself for a while about posting this, but I have come to be comfortable enough here to feel like I can go ahead with this.

I've seen a couple threads titled sex workers and have seen several other posts in other threads from current or former sex workers.

Here's my post/confession/question. As I've posted elsewhere I had a beautiful life that I threw away. I experienced an amphetamine-induced manic phase in which I experienced a serious phase of hypersexuality that included about a year of almost complete addiction to escorts. I got heavy into it. Joined several escort sites even wrote reviews (always with the prior approval of the escort and after giving her a chance to read/edit the review). The short of it is that my life was destroyed when my wife, who I loved and still do, found one of those reviews (for those without experience with this, it's an explicit description of the encounter) online. Around the same time my university found about my drug use (an escort who turned me onto meth later wrote an email to my university VP and they seized my computer and discovered all kinds of shit: porn, explicit sexting with escorts, discussion of drug purchases. I got fired, arrested, my wife left me, yada yada yada.

Here's why I'm posting this. Before all this, I had very strong feelings (mainly moral/ethical and feminist inspired) about prostitution. My view was that sex work was just about the worse form of male domination and exploitation possible. I even taught courses that dealt with gender issues in which I discussed sex work in these terms: patriarchy at its most intimate and oppressive. And then WHAM, I'm cheating on my wife with escorts 2-3 times a month. A complete and total contradiction of my professed beliefs. Now that it's been a couple of years since all that, I live (am dying from) unbearable shame, remorse, regret, you name it. I not only betrayed my wife but everything I stood for.

I guess the reason I'm posting this is that because I'm going to make my death look accidental, I won't have a chance to publicly say goodbye, and try to apologize/explain for the things I did. But before I go I would like to know if those involved in sex work feel that it is in fact all about male domination and exploitation. In short, did I participate in an industry that harmed you? If so, would it make any difference to you if I said I'm sorry for my part in that?

I don't know if this makes any sense. I'm still very confused about that time in my life. I just feel like this site gives me a chance to discuss this issue in a way no other site allows.

Thanks. Sorry this was so long.

btw, if this is too personal for a thread but you care to respond I'd welcome a direct message.
When you feel shame, embarrassment hopelessness, sadness, feel that you can no longer go on, and think you may never see the ones you love again or even wonder what others are thinking as they look at you when your life has been exposed for all to see and have you even chosen this Avenue to either aid in your recovery or decide to ctb, I cannot help but respect your honesty and I am here for you.
 
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longingforrelease

longingforrelease

Specialist
Oct 27, 2018
381
When you feel shame, embarrassment hopelessness, sadness, feel that you can no longer go on, and think you may never see the ones you love again or even wonder what others are thinking as they look at you when your life has been exposed for all to see and have you even chosen this Avenue to either aid in your recovery or decide to ctb, I cannot help but respect your honesty and I am here for you.
Oh Swisher, I can't tell you how much that means to me. Thank you for kind and supportive remarks. As you can see above, I have been accused of just about the worst thing one can be accused of here - a fraud, a predator, whatever. I don't and won't ever understand what I could have said in any of my posts here to lead to those suspicions and accusations, but they're out there now for anyone to see. So this place may never again be for me the place it was - one where I could to tell my story openly and honestly (with all the ugly details of my infidelity, etc.). I'll never know how many here will read those accusations and conclude that indeed I am some kind of predator, or perhaps merely just entertain the suspicion that I might be - either way, I'll never feel quite as at home here as I did before this happened. So it means a lot that you reached out. I mean that. And likewise, if you ever need anything, I'll be here to listen. blessings to you. b
 
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WayOut

WayOut

Experienced
Oct 26, 2018
281
I don't and won't ever understand what I could have said in any of my posts here to lead to those suspicions and accusations, but they're out there now for anyone to see. So this place may never again be for me the place it was - one where I could to tell my story openly and honestly (with all the ugly details of my infidelity, etc.).
Easy to explain, buddy. You objectified sex workers in that self aggrandizing, tsunami like outpouring your "shame". You ostensibly were making some kind of confession, as if, like, seriously? Then you shift to soliciting sex workers to talk to you about the alleged harm they may have experienced in the patriarchal society.

How about this? Many sex workers are strong, independent women, including those who work to pay for tuition fees for college educations. Others work to support their kids after loser guys piss off. Some work to support their kids after they escape abusive partners, often in fear for their lives.

There are other sex workers who have been harmed, of course. These are women and guys who have adverse life circumstances such as poverty, mind fucking abusive backgrounds etc. The sex work doesn't harm them. The other shit did.

There are sex workers who are drug addicts. Druggies? Seriously, how's that label helping them, but that's what they get called, on top of whore, prostitute etc. Yes, some people turn to sex work to support habits, but I look to the dealers as the scum in these situations.

You present yourself as an educated, intelligent person. Yet here you are on a site largely dominated by vulnerable young people. You're trawling around, feeding your ego, and basically fucking with people. Dude. Seriously?
 
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DeletedUser4739

Guest
Easy to explain, buddy. You objectified sex workers in that self aggrandizing, tsunami like outpouring your "shame". You ostensibly were making some kind of confession, as if, like, seriously? Then you shift to soliciting sex workers to talk to you about the alleged harm they may have experienced in the patriarchal society.

How about this? Many sex workers are strong, independent women, including those who work to pay for tuition fees for college educations. Others work to support their kids after loser guys piss off. Some work to support their kids after they escape abusive partners, often in fear for their lives.

There are other sex workers who have been harmed, of course. These are women and guys who have adverse life circumstances such as poverty, mind fucking abusive backgrounds etc. The sex work doesn't harm them. The other shit did.

There are sex workers who are drug addicts. Druggies? Seriously, how's that label helping them, but that's what they get called, on top of whore, prostitute etc. Yes, some people turn to sex work to support habits, but I look to the dealers as the scum in these situations.

You present yourself as an educated, intelligent person. Yet here you are on a site largely dominated by vulnerable young people. You're trawling around, feeding your ego, and basically fucking with people. Dude. Seriously?
Well said.

In other words, enough with the bullshit, dude.
 
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T

TooLate2582

Experienced
May 6, 2018
268
Cheese and rice, can someone give me a Tl;dr
 
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longingforrelease

longingforrelease

Specialist
Oct 27, 2018
381
Ok, Life? good. Then did bad things. Now life? not good. want die.
 
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F

Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
4,348
Easy to explain, buddy. You objectified sex workers in that self aggrandizing, tsunami like outpouring your "shame". You ostensibly were making some kind of confession, as if, like, seriously? Then you shift to soliciting sex workers to talk to you about the alleged harm they may have experienced in the patriarchal society.

How about this? Many sex workers are strong, independent women, including those who work to pay for tuition fees for college educations. Others work to support their kids after loser guys piss off. Some work to support their kids after they escape abusive partners, often in fear for their lives.

There are other sex workers who have been harmed, of course. These are women and guys who have adverse life circumstances such as poverty, mind fucking abusive backgrounds etc. The sex work doesn't harm them. The other shit did.

There are sex workers who are drug addicts. Druggies? Seriously, how's that label helping them, but that's what they get called, on top of whore, prostitute etc. Yes, some people turn to sex work to support habits, but I look to the dealers as the scum in these situations.

You present yourself as an educated, intelligent person. Yet here you are on a site largely dominated by vulnerable young people. You're trawling around, feeding your ego, and basically fucking with people. Dude. Seriously?
Society has not been patriarchal since the state stepped in and created matriarchal policies. Patriarchy still exists, but it's becoming wiped out especially in the lower socioeconomic classes. These days in the US, women have rights over men. Families led by women are not patriarchy. Kids become more at risk of abuse when they have no bio dad living with them.
 
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NotRelevant

New Member
Nov 30, 2018
3
A lot of sex workers have options of working regular jobs with lower income but weighs the ups and downs and choose the fast income source. I dont see why it would be shameful to go to them or why these sex workers should feel any shame or why society should look down on this. If I were a woman, I would consider sex work myself, if it could be set up in a safe way. Since I am not gay it would unfortunately be too mentally taxing for me to do as a male. Obviously some sex workers are trafficked and it is damaging enabling this industry. I have never went to a sex worker myself so I am not positively biased towards the industry because of coping.
 
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Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
4,348
I wouldn't say sex workers are strong independent women. Prostitution is where the independent woman thing falls down lol! Who is paying your bills through sex work? You guessed it, it's men. Sex work in many ways is the alternative when you failed to find a good husband who was willing, able, responsible enough to provide for u and any kids you would have. Men pay the majority of all income taxes. Men still earn more than women but it's not because of women not being paid the same for the same work. Men are often willing to prioritize long hours at work to provide especially when they have a family. Men take on certain difficult, often more dangerous, and higher paying jobs than women do. Because we aren't told the truth about gender differences, many people now make unwise partner choices. There's no oversight to ensure that a young woman doesn't choose a bad guy and ends up pregnant and alone. That's where the welfare state which is largely paid for by men steps in. I'm not saying sex work doesn't take some toughness, but I need drugs to increase my toughness to cope lol!
 
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Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
4,348
A lot of sex workers have options of working regular jobs with lower income but weighs the ups and downs and choose the fast income source. I dont see why it would be shameful to go to them or why these sex workers should feel any shame or why society should look down on this. If I were a woman, I would consider sex work myself, if it could be set up in a safe way. Since I am not gay it would unfortunately be too mentally taxing for me to do as a male. Obviously some sex workers are trafficked and it is damaging enabling this industry. I have never went to a sex worker myself so I am not positively biased towards the industry because of coping.
The reason that sex work is shamed is because women have a lot more power in the sexual arena especially when we are young. We are the gate keepers of sexual access and carry the power to decide what genes make it to the next generation. Women are supposed to be extremely discriminate in choosing a man because if we get pregnant it's a much higher cost to us and any kids that may result vs the consequences for a man. Casual sex for men is much more enjoyable and less risky than it is for women even now with access to good birth control. Women value security over casual sex because of the potential risk of pregnancy. Casual sex also breaks down a woman's ability to pair bond, which hurts you if u had many sexual partners and then at some point u decide to marry. It raises risk of divorce for women when we have lots of sexual partners. If too many women start to lower the standards for men to gain easy access sexually things actually get harder for men and women in society. Fewer men are willing to commit if they can get easy access to sex without the exchange of commitment and providing resources to the woman. It gradually breaks down society and fewer people can marry because the gender relations change. Only the very top percentage of attractive men get sexual access to the majority of women. Which is not good for society. Basically as a result of the sexual liberation of women, it destroys prosperity, more children grow up in poverty. It creates a lot of social ills.
 
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Johnnythefox

Johnnythefox

Que sera sera
Nov 11, 2018
3,129
I've encountered sex workers in Edinburgh and I've asked why they do it, one answer was "do you know the price of property in Edinburgh?"
I'm not going to pretend trafficking doesn't exist but if I was female I could see the attraction of tax free earnings.
Then there are sex workers who do not offer nor want intercourse, and who operate within the fetish circle.
I never deride or judge sex workers, they are people like like everyone else..
 
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Threads

Threads

Warlock
Jul 13, 2018
721
I've encountered sex workers in Edinburgh and I've asked why they do it, one answer was "do you know the price of property in Edinburgh?"
I'm not going to pretend trafficking doesn't exist but if I was female I could see the attraction of tax free earnings.
Then there are sex workers who do not offer nor want intercourse, and who operate within the fetish circle.
I never deride or judge sex workers, they are people like like everyone else..

But many legitimate sex workers do pay taxes. They pay as independent contractors. There are a select few that do not, and those who don't should be held accountable for it. There is a false notion that sex workers don't pay taxes. Many of them do.
 
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Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
4,348
But many legitimate sex workers do pay taxes. They pay as independent contractors. There are a select few that do not, and those who don't should be held accountable for it. There is a false notion that sex workers don't pay taxes. Many of them do.
I'm willing to bet the majority do not. Some do but it's so expensive and complicated to even file as an independent contractor. Many sex workers have mental health issues and dependent on some drugs to deal with the job which makes it difficult to be that organized. I'm sure some of them are higher functioning than others but I doubt the majority are that responsible lol! You should be happy they don't pay taxes. Taxation is theft anyway. A lot of your taxes do not go to your benefit, they go towards harming the citizenry. There's no transparency where that money goes and u have no choice about where it goes. Not paying taxes which I don't recommend but it does lessen the power of the state so in that respect it's positive.
 
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Johnnythefox

Johnnythefox

Que sera sera
Nov 11, 2018
3,129
Fair play to them if they don't pay taxes and get away with it, anyone who fucks the government gets my vote.
 
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N

NotRelevant

New Member
Nov 30, 2018
3
The reason that sex work is shamed is because women have a lot more power in the sexual arena especially when we are young. We are the gate keepers of sexual access and carry the power to decide what genes make it to the next generation. Women are supposed to be extremely discriminate in choosing a man because if we get pregnant it's a much higher cost to us and any kids that may result vs the consequences for a man. Casual sex for men is much more enjoyable and less risky than it is for women even now with access to good birth control. Women value security over casual sex because of the potential risk of pregnancy. Casual sex also breaks down a woman's ability to pair bond, which hurts you if u had many sexual partners and then at some point u decide to marry. It raises risk of divorce for women when we have lots of sexual partners. If too many women start to lower the standards for men to gain easy access sexually things actually get harder for men and women in society. Fewer men are willing to commit if they can get easy access to sex without the exchange of commitment and providing resources to the woman. It gradually breaks down society and fewer people can marry because the gender relations change. Only the very top percentage of attractive men get sexual access to the majority of women. Which is not good for society. Basically as a result of the sexual liberation of women, it destroys prosperity, more children grow up in poverty. It creates a lot of social ills.
I can certainly see many young women might choose sex work without knowing the true consequences. I come from a country that scores high on sexual liberation. I do think most of what you describe is true around most of the world but I havent observed this phenomena with woman with many sexual partners struggling to bond later in life. I dont know if you are from USA but I think this country is still placing a lot of subconscious sin on sex even in secular left wing circles because of remains from their religion and culture. Without sex workers I am afraid there will be some very negative consequences. I think it is very hard to judge the sex working industry and its ramification on the individuals and society based on an utillitarian model.
 
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Severen

Severen

Enlightened
Jun 30, 2018
1,819
I'm willing to bet the majority do not. Some do but it's so expensive and complicated to even file as an independent contractor. Many sex workers have mental health issues and dependent on some drugs to deal with the job which makes it difficult to be that organized. I'm sure some of them are higher functioning than others but I doubt the majority are that responsible lol! You should be happy they don't pay taxes. Taxation is theft anyway. A lot of your taxes do not go to your benefit, they go towards harming the citizenry. There's no transparency where that money goes and u have no choice about where it goes. Not paying taxes which I don't recommend but it does lessen the power of the state so in that respect it's positive.

If you are talking about the USA, the majority of taxes go to the military so they can kill innocent and decent people so some corporations can make a lot of $$$.
 
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Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
4,348
I can certainly see many young women might choose sex work without knowing the true consequences. I come from a country that scores high on sexual liberation. I do think most of what you describe is true around most of the world but I havent observed this phenomena with woman with many sexual partners struggling to bond later in life. I dont know if you are from USA but I think this country is still placing a lot of subconscious sin on sex even in secular left wing circles because of remains from their religion and culture. Without sex workers I am afraid there will be some very negative consequences. I think it is very hard to judge the sex working industry and its ramification on the individuals and society based on an utillitarian model.
I'm sure there would be some sex workers who might choose this knowing all the consequences in a completely free society. I just don't think it would as common as it is now that the nuclear family has been broken down and feminist ideology got pushed on us. Many women do it now because they realize they can't make it on their low wage jobs, or they experience a lot of stress at a typical job. Men generally handle being in employment better than women because women less emotionally stable because of biology. Prostitution although can be dangerous, is lower stress, and more flexible than most jobs for women. This is probably the biggest reason women get into it. You get paid a liveable wage, no write up for a sick day, you can work the hours that work for you, no waiting on a paycheck, and you don't have to deal with office politics, evil female coworkers or bosses lol! The safest place for women has always been in a stable marriage. Once that got altered, it really messed things up. I'm not saying women not at fault for some of this stuff but it's also just not being educated properly about these things too. We are brainwashed to prioritize the wrong things while young to our detriment.
 
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Smilla

Smilla

Visionary
Apr 30, 2018
2,549
The vast majority of sex workers come from broken families and experienced abuse of some form during their childhoods—sexual, or emotional, etc, resulting in massive feelings of alienation and low self esteem, and a fuck you attitude to the society and families that let them down.
 
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Severen

Severen

Enlightened
Jun 30, 2018
1,819
The vast majority of sex workers come from broken families and experienced abuse of some form during their childhoods—sexual, or emotional, etc, resulting in massive feelings of alienation and low self esteem, and a fuck you attitude to the society and families that let them down.

Poverty combined with the greed of the rich and the wealthy, as well. It's common for a lot of young women to prostitute themselves just to pay for university or college...
 
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Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
4,348
The vast majority of sex workers come from broken families and experienced abuse of some form during their childhoods—sexual, or emotional, etc, resulting in massive feelings of alienation and low self esteem, and a fuck you attitude to the society and families that let them down.
Yes :( this is what happened to me. I'd like to fix my life though.
 
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Smilla

Smilla

Visionary
Apr 30, 2018
2,549
Poverty combined with the greed of the rich and the wealthy, as well. It's common for a lot of young women to prostitute themselves just to pay for university or college...

Yes, that's what I did. Also worked regular retail jobs.
 
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Threads

Threads

Warlock
Jul 13, 2018
721
I'm willing to bet the majority do not. Some do but it's so expensive and complicated to even file as an independent contractor. Many sex workers have mental health issues and dependent on some drugs to deal with the job which makes it difficult to be that organized. I'm sure some of them are higher functioning than others but I doubt the majority are that responsible lol! You should be happy they don't pay taxes. Taxation is theft anyway. A lot of your taxes do not go to your benefit, they go towards harming the citizenry. There's no transparency where that money goes and u have no choice about where it goes. Not paying taxes which I don't recommend but it does lessen the power of the state so in that respect it's positive.

When I speak of sex workers paying taxes, I mean those who are doing legitimate cam work, running patreons, etc are paying taxes. One of the common arguments I hear is that sex work is not legitimate work because many of the people in that industry do not pay taxes. I always try to stomp that notion out whenever it comes up. Sex work is legitimate work.

I think when it comes down to the more underground type of sex work (And you'll have to forgive me, I'm not greatly familiar with sex work as I am to many other topics, I go on what I know from watching documentaries and reading the news) such as those who use Tinder or other online platforms, they likely do not pay taxes, but that doesn't make the work itself illegitimate. I am familiar with sex trafficking and have knowledge and understanding of it, and how it does branch off into the sex work industry, but outside of that, I don't have the same basis of knowledge when it comes to sex work.

I'm more sitting in the stands in this thread reading, but trying to jump in where I can.

As for taxes, well. That's an entirely different conversation. I should make a thread about it.
 
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ReadyasEver

ReadyasEver

Elementalist
Dec 6, 2018
828
Don't get me started on taxes Threads lol.
 
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Smilla

Smilla

Visionary
Apr 30, 2018
2,549
When I speak of sex workers paying taxes, I mean those who are doing legitimate cam work, running patreons, etc are paying taxes. One of the common arguments I hear is that sex work is not legitimate work because many of the people in that industry do not pay taxes. I always try to stomp that notion out whenever it comes up. Sex work is legitimate work.

I think when it comes down to the more underground type of sex work (And you'll have to forgive me, I'm not greatly familiar with sex work as I am to many other topics, I go on what I know from watching documentaries and reading the news) such as those who use Tinder or other online platforms, they likely do not pay taxes, but that doesn't make the work itself illegitimate. I am familiar with sex trafficking and have knowledge and understanding of it, and how it does branch off into the sex work industry, but outside of that, I don't have the same basis of knowledge when it comes to sex work.

I'm more sitting in the stands in this thread reading, but trying to jump in where I can.

As for taxes, well. That's an entirely different conversation. I should make a thread about it.

I paid taxes in my last couple years before I quit but before that I didn't, and felt no guilt about it.

Society does not view this work as legitimate (speaking specifically about actual prostitution)—I narrowly escaped being arrested and know several workers who were. There are stings happening all the time (people LOVE reading about successful stings in the local paper with the names and photos of the women and clients on the front page).

As an industry veteran I know what I am talking about (sadly); although I will say I was lucky in the sense that I 1). Never got beat up 2). Escaped drug addiction and 3). Met some really wonderful men who became actual friends.
 
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Smilla

Smilla

Visionary
Apr 30, 2018
2,549
I'll have much more to say about this but I don't know how comfortable I feel—I guess I will chime in if I perceive a mistruth being spread or something.

Anyway, it sounds like everyone so far has been incredibly respectful of sex workers, and for that I thank you.
 
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Johnnythefox

Johnnythefox

Que sera sera
Nov 11, 2018
3,129
I became particularly close to one in Edinburgh, I even bought her perfume one time. She had my phone number and contacted me a couple of times when I wasn't about for a while.
She worked in a sauna, Edinburgh has quite a number of saunas, strip bars and lap dancing venues.
I was leaving to go abroad owing to the credit card soiree and asked her join me!
I was hoping we could maybe have done a Bonnie and Clyde or Thelma and Louise routine, but she declined.
I've often thought about her and whatever became of her.
 
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D

DeletedUser4739

Guest
At what point do the responses of members who choose not to indulge in this subversive, twisted effort become valid?
Society has not been patriarchal since the state stepped in and created matriarchal policies. Patriarchy still exists, but it's becoming wiped out especially in the lower socioeconomic classes. These days in the US, women have rights over men. Families led by women are not patriarchy. Kids become more at risk of abuse when they have no bio dad living with them.
Yet, there is nothing beyond anecdotal reports to support your claim. I'd appreciate some well published, repeated scientific studies that in any way support your claim. I have found none that are based in science, which from my perspective, is what I am willing to put my faith in here. History, is also not being accurately stated in your comment. Facts, data, would be helpful here, please. Thank you.
 
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DeletedUser4739

Guest
I wouldn't say sex workers are strong independent women. Prostitution is where the independent woman thing falls down lol! Who is paying your bills through sex work? You guessed it, it's men. Sex work in many ways is the alternative when you failed to find a good husband who was willing, able, responsible enough to provide for u and any kids you would have. Men pay the majority of all income taxes. Men still earn more than women but it's not because of women not being paid the same for the same work. Men are often willing to prioritize long hours at work to provide especially when they have a family. Men take on certain difficult, often more dangerous, and higher paying jobs than women do. Because we aren't told the truth about gender differences, many people now make unwise partner choices. There's no oversight to ensure that a young woman doesn't choose a bad guy and ends up pregnant and alone. That's where the welfare state which is largely paid for by men steps in. I'm not saying sex work doesn't take some toughness, but I need drugs to increase my toughness to cope lol!
Here, you have put the egg before the chicken. And that is putting it mildly. I highly recommend you research the factual information as to why women earn less income, and therefore, pay less income tax. You may find you're lead to a different conclusion.
 
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D

DeletedUser4739

Guest
I've encountered sex workers in Edinburgh and I've asked why they do it, one answer was "do you know the price of property in Edinburgh?"
I'm not going to pretend trafficking doesn't exist but if I was female I could see the attraction of tax free earnings.
Then there are sex workers who do not offer nor want intercourse, and who operate within the fetish circle.
I never deride or judge sex workers, they are people like like everyone else..
Oh, yes...all the ways to earn a living. Those who earn a living in an "illegal" or otherwise stigmatized manner, still pay a tax of sorts. We all do in one way or another. Everyone has to eat...
 
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L

Lefty

Mage
Dec 7, 2018
530
I'd just like to say that Final Escape hit the nail on the head in all of her posts on this topic.
 
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