Curious about people's experiences with weed/shrooms to treat depression

[iw2live_idkhow]

I saw that there's been studies on using these to treat depression and it seems somewhat promising, can anyone share their experiences and if it helped even a little bit?

I have some people I could potentially contact about getting access to these and so I'm curious about them.

 

[J&L383]

interested in this as well. Psylocibin is sort of legal now in this state, where you can have an "experience" at a treatment center. But I haven't tried it yet because I've heard of mixed results.

 

[de_cache]

interested in this as well. Psylocibin is sort of legal now in this state, where you can have an "experience" at a treatment center. But I haven't tried it yet because I've heard of mixed results.

Colorado?

 

[divinemistress36]

Weed never helped. Microdosing shrooms hasnt helped. But Id like to go to a legal state like Colorado Or Oregon and do a big heroic dose with a therapist. On my bucket list

 

[EvisceratedJester]

A lot of those findings are largely from clinical settings and may not fully reflect the results seen in non-clinical settings (i.e., there might be more variability when it comes to its effectiveness at treating depression). Shrooms and psychedelics in general are not a magical cure for mental health issues, and, in some cases, they can also worsen them. You shouldn't just start self-medicating, especially on a substance whose effects can vary a lot depending on your environment and headspace.

My first trip on shrooms was actually quite horrible and involved a lot of mood swings and a lot of disorientation. For reference, I'm not even mentally ill, rather, I was just in a rough patch mentally back then. If it weren't for the fact that I was in a self-destructive phase at the time and was looking for things that could cause me pain, I probably would not have done them again. I won't lie and say that they didn't help, because they did once I started to get the hang of tripping, and I haven't really had any bad or rough trips outside of the first two times I tried them. At the same time, I can easily imagine someone who is mentally ill and is currently having a rough time coping with their mental illness finding themselves going through a horrible trip (one worse, my first one) and coming out of it traumatized. That is not even getting into the potential risks that come from psychedelic use for those who have or who have a family history of schizophrenia, or just issues with psychosis in general. Psychedelics can also cause things like thought loops, which can have a detrimental impact on your mental health.

While I don't mind people using them recreationally (hell, that is what I use them for), I wouldn't recommend using them to self-medicate. It's probably better to look into doing psychedelic-assisted therapy instead.

 

[Whole-Ad]

Yeah it helped me kind of. I smoked weed pretty much every day for a year. It allowed me to focus and made me happy when I was high, you know everything was funny, nothing was serious. I found it almost impossible to sit and be alone with my thoughts, but when I smoked weed everything was okay, I could watch a movie, I could play games on my computer.

It was all good when I smoked weed, until it became an issue. If I ran out of weed, I'd be stressing the whole time, even become more suicidal because I had to face the world without it. I tried to stop smoking so often but I couldn't. If I had weed, I would smoke it everyday without fail. I hated it. I started getting paranoid when I was high. I got a new puppy, and I would always get paranoid that she was dying. I know it doesn't make much sense but at the time it felt so real.

I even started to get bad highs. I felt like I was dying. You can't die from weed and I knew that but what I was feeling felt real. There was this one time, I was going abroad the next day and I just thought I was going to die that night, and dying wasn't bothering me it was the fact that I would have ruined the holiday for everyone else lol.

I quit weed last November. It was hard because weed was the best way for me to escape reality. If you gave me weed right now I would still smoke it, I don't want to, but I would. It never cured me. I'm still depressed. I still want to die. It just gave me a way to escape for a couple hours.

 

[J&L383]

A lot of those findings are largely from clinical settings and may not fully reflect the results seen in non-clinical settings (i.e., there might be more variability when it comes to its effectiveness at treating depression). Shrooms and psychedelics in general are not a magical cure for mental health issues, and, in some cases, they can also worsen them. You shouldn't just start self-medicating, especially on a substance whose effects can vary a lot depending on your environment and headspace.

My first trip on shrooms was actually quite horrible and involved a lot of mood swings and a lot of disorientation. For reference, I'm not even mentally ill, rather, I was just in a rough patch mentally back then. If it weren't for the fact that I was in a self-destructive phase at the time and was looking for things that could cause me pain, I probably would not have done them again. I won't lie and say that they didn't help, because they did once I started to get the hang of tripping, and I haven't really had any bad or rough trips outside of the first two times I tried them. At the same time, I can easily imagine someone who is mentally ill and is currently having a rough time coping with their mental illness finding themselves going through a horrible trip (one worse, my first one) and coming out of it traumatized. That is not even getting into the potential risks that come from psychedelic use for those who have or who have a family history of schizophrenia, or just issues with psychosis in general. Psychedelics can also cause things like thought loops, which can have a detrimental impact on your mental health.

While I don't mind people using them recreationally (hell, that is what I use them for), I wouldn't recommend using them to self-medicate. It's probably better to look into doing psychedelic-assisted therapy instead.

Thank you. Very helpful. I think I have "thought loops" already and doubt I need more. Best to wait and see as more data comes in and definitely won't try a heroic dose without a good professional consultion.

 

[SovietSuicide]

It's too subjective, it affects everyone differently.

Something definitely changed my consciousness the first time I took acid.

I think I make a lot more connections between things. Like I'm more aware of patterns of thoughts and phenomena. It sheds a new light on the nature of reality for sure.

If you're depressed because of an internal struggle IG they'd help and if it's because of material conditions they'd make it worse. Idk just my thoughts.

They inflate ego, don't dissolve it. Just be aware of that. When people talk about ego death they're talking about their ego getting so inflated on a high that they start having truly mystical experiences, that takes massive ego inflation because you are experiencing being the absolute centre of the universe and it sticks around.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

They inflate ego, don't dissolve it. Just be aware of that. When people talk about ego death they're talking about their ego getting so inflated on a high that they start having truly mystical experiences, that takes massive ego inflation because you are experiencing being the absolute centre of the universe and it sticks around.

No, they aren't. When people talk about ego death, they are referring to essentially losing their sense of self. Psychedelics tend to act on brain areas involved in different aspects of self, from self-bodily consciousness to self-narrative, basically disrupting them. Ego-death has been found to correlate with decreased levels of activity in the Default Mode Network, a set of brain areas that become active when the brain is at rest (they become more active when we aren't focused on external tasks, especially those requiring higher-order cognition). The DMN plays a role in things, from self-referential thinking to the retrieval of autobiographical memories. Higher levels of DMN activity have also been linked to multiple mental illnesses, such as depression. The DMN is also involved in the construction of self-narrative. It is thought that decreases in DMN activity are what causes ego-death.


Basically, ego-death being caused by an inflation of ego (besides completely going against the definition of that term) also wouldn't make much sense from a neuroscientific perspective, since research shows that ego-death is linked to decreases in brain activity in areas of the brain involved in our sense of self (our "egos", if you will).

 

[iw2live_idkhow]

A lot of those findings are largely from clinical settings and may not fully reflect the results seen in non-clinical settings (i.e., there might be more variability when it comes to its effectiveness at treating depression). Shrooms and psychedelics in general are not a magical cure for mental health issues, and, in some cases, they can also worsen them. You shouldn't just start self-medicating, especially on a substance whose effects can vary a lot depending on your environment and headspace.

Basically, ego-death being caused by an inflation of ego (besides completely going against the definition of that term) also wouldn't make much sense from a neuroscientific perspective, since research shows that ego-death is linked to decreases in brain activity in areas of the brain involved in our sense of self (our "egos", if you will).

Thanks for both these replies, they were really informative and has given me stuff to think about.

It was all good when I smoked weed, until it became an issue. If I ran out of weed, I'd be stressing the whole time, even become more suicidal because I had to face the world without it. I tried to stop smoking so often but I couldn't. If I had weed, I would smoke it everyday without fail. I hated it. I started getting paranoid when I was high. I got a new puppy, and I would always get paranoid that she was dying. I know it doesn't make much sense but at the time it felt so real.

Thanks for sharing your experience, I will definitely keep this in mind going forward.

 

[SovietSuicide]

No, they aren't. When people talk about ego death, they are referring to essentially losing their sense of self. Psychedelics tend to act on brain areas involved in different aspects of self, from self-bodily consciousness to self-narrative, basically disrupting them. Ego-death has been found to correlate with decreased levels of activity in the Default Mode Network, a set of brain areas that become active when the brain is at rest (they become more active when we aren't focused on external tasks, especially those requiring higher-order cognition). The DMN plays a role in things, from self-referential thinking to the retrieval of autobiographical memories. Higher levels of DMN activity have also been linked to multiple mental illnesses, such as depression. The DMN is also involved in the construction of self-narrative. It is thought that decreases in DMN activity are what causes ego-death.


Basically, ego-death being caused by an inflation of ego (besides completely going against the definition of that term) also wouldn't make much sense from a neuroscientific perspective, since research shows that ego-death is linked to decreases in brain activity in areas of the brain involved in our sense of self (our "egos", if you will).

How are you linking DMN activity to the ego? Seems ridiculous since the ego is a concept from theoretical psychology & all you're mentioning is higher & lower activity corresponding with thinking. Neruoscience is nowhere near at the level we can distinguish that kind of detail via activity monitoring & we haven't even established what definition of ego we're using.

Neuroscience can only measure material things, not concepts like id, self & ego. There is no bridge between neuroscience and psychology in that way. You could argue that it's measuring a certain pattern of activity that is associated with ego but that actually doesn't have anything to do with the experience of taking psychedelics which is absolutely stimulating for the ego, that's why it's enjoyable, makes your thoughts race, increases novelty, etc.

I'm basing my position on my experiences, I've been there & done it lol so if you don't believe me then that's fine.

Even pure ego-death experiences are philosophically by nature, ego-inflating. Everyone who experiences it & reflects on it realizes that. Speaking to a higher power directly is the most ego-fueled experience I ever had.

It's why hippies always have that attitude that they're right about everything & they always have some sort of social cause that they can feel good about. They're in the 1-3 year honeymoon phase of psychedelics where ego is inflated, they think they're the center of the universe and they have special knowledge from god/drugs/whatever.

Then they either get themselves together or fall off a cliff. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. People find out a lot of truth about the nature of things when they take those ideas and see which ones hold up when facing resistance from reality. The ones that fall off are unwilling to shed the over-inflated ego that told them they figured everything out about the world.

If you know psychedelic users & you're older than 25 you know what I'm talking about, it's a very common cycle/pattern.

They're talking to the self when they're high & they think it's god. Can't get more ego-inflated than that.

 

[scientificmethid]

I've been told by medical professionals that weed can work but if you are on any antidepressants then shrooms will likely be a lot less effective.

 

[rabidbunny]

honestly its a case by case kinda thing. we are all so different and react differently as well. weed makes me incredibly paranoid now. my best friend and i have been heavy smokers since 16/17 (her more than i) but she never gets scared the way i do. it calms her down and makes her feel happy. i liked shrooms but ive never microdosed them consistently, just individual trips that made me feel more alive (still anxious tbh but nice at the same time?) but only temporarily. wish you luck tho and hope you get to experiment! be safe!!

It was hard because weed was the best way for me to escape reality. If you gave me weed right now I would still smoke it, I don't want to, but I would. It never cured me. I'm still depressed. I still want to die. It just gave me a way to escape for a couple hours.

relate to this so much wow.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

How are you linking DMN activity to the ego? Seems ridiculous since the ego is a concept from theoretical psychology & all you're mentioning is higher & lower activity corresponding with thinking. Neruoscience is nowhere near at the level we can distinguish that kind of detail via activity monitoring & we haven't even established what definition of ego we're using.

Neuroscience can only measure material things, not concepts like id, self & ego. There is no bridge between neuroscience and psychology in that way. You could argue that it's measuring a certain pattern of activity that is associated with ego but that actually doesn't have anything to do with the experience of taking psychedelics which is absolutely stimulating for the ego, that's why it's enjoyable, makes your thoughts race, increases novelty, etc.

I'm basing my position on my experiences, I've been there & done it lol so if you don't believe me then that's fine.

Even pure ego-death experiences are philosophically by nature, ego-inflating. Everyone who experiences it & reflects on it realizes that. Speaking to a higher power directly is the most ego-fueled experience I ever had.

It's why hippies always have that attitude that they're right about everything & they always have some sort of social cause that they can feel good about. They're in the 1-3 year honeymoon phase of psychedelics where ego is inflated, they think they're the center of the universe and they have special knowledge from god/drugs/whatever.

Then they either get themselves together or fall off a cliff. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. People find out a lot of truth about the nature of things when they take those ideas and see which ones hold up when facing resistance from reality. The ones that fall off are unwilling to shed the over-inflated ego that told them they figured everything out about the world.

If you know psychedelic users & you're older than 25 you know what I'm talking about, it's a very common cycle/pattern.

They're talking to the self when they're high & they think it's god. Can't get more ego-inflated than that.

Um, because research has literally shown that there is a link between DMN activity and ego-death. Ego, in the context of ego death, refers to one's sense of self. Also, I feel like you have no understanding of neuroscience, whatsoever. I actually do have some knowledge on the subject since I've taken courses in it and I also study it in my free time. You are talking about Freudian psychology even though this has nothing to do with this ego-death. Your thoughts racing also has nothing to do with an inflated ego and in no way disproves anything that I've said. I feel like you lack any knowledge on this subject, so maybe next time you should do some basic research first before lecturing me on this topic.

 

[SovietSuicide]

Um, because research has literally shown that there is a link between DMN activity and ego-death. Ego, in the context of ego death, refers to one's sense of self. Also, I feel like you have no understanding of neuroscience, whatsoever. I actually do have some knowledge on the subject since I've taken courses in it and I also study it in my free time. You are talking about Freudian psychology even though this has nothing to do with this ego-death. Your thoughts racing also has nothing to do with an inflated ego and in no way disproves anything that I've said. I feel like you lack any knowledge on this subject, so maybe next time you should do some basic research first before lecturing me on this topic.

Lol okay, if you know so much maybe explain the link instead of just saying "research has shown". You're talking about a machine that measures electrical activity in the brain and then somehow concluding that DMN activity = ego-death which is a psychological concept so what you're saying just doesn't make sense bro.

Material sciences can't make metaphysical conclusions.

How would you even be able to verify degrees of activity relate to states of consciousness? You can't. That's why there is no 'brain activity' test for mental health disorders.

Ego-death & states of consciousness are squarely in the realm of qualia. Neruoscience can not currently answer anything to do with qualia, that's just a fact. Ever heard of the hard problem of consciousness? Lol. Conflating qualia & material science is like conflating ontology & phenomenology.

You are talking about Freudian psychology even though this has nothing to do with this ego-death

Oh so now there are 2 types of ego-death?

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Lol okay, if you know so much maybe explain the link instead of just saying "research has shown". You're talking about a machine that measures electrical activity in the brain and then somehow concluding that DMN activity = ego-death which is a psychological concept so what you're saying just doesn't make sense bro.

Aside from changes in cerebral blood flow in these regions, psilocybin, ayahuasca and LSD have also been consistently linked to decreased functional integrity of the DMN ([COLOR=var(--maincolor50)]Carhart-Harris et al., 2012[/COLOR], [COLOR=var(--maincolor50)]2016b[/COLOR]; [COLOR=var(--maincolor50)]Palhano-Fontes et al., 2015[/COLOR]). Moreover, DMN disintegration was correlated with reports of ego dissolution ([COLOR=var(--maincolor50)]Carhart-Harris et al., 2016b[/COLOR]) and decreased mental time travel to the past ([COLOR=var(--maincolor50)]Speth et al., 2016[/COLOR]). These findings are intriguing, because strong DMN connectivity at rest is associated with increased tendency for mental time travel, in particular spontaneous thoughts about the future ([COLOR=var(--maincolor50)]Schacter et al., 2007[/COLOR]; [COLOR=var(--maincolor50)]Godwin et al., 2017[/COLOR]; [COLOR=var(--maincolor50)]Karapanagiotidis et al., 2017[/COLOR]; [COLOR=var(--maincolor50)]Wang et al., 2017[/COLOR]). This suggests that reports of drug-induced ego dissolution may be related to the experience of decreased self-referential thought and mental time travel, which is also fundamental to the practice of meditation.

Frontiers | Psychedelics, Meditation, and Self-Consciousness

In recent years, the scientific study of meditation and psychedelic drugs has seen remarkable developments. The increased focus on meditation in cognitive ne...

www.frontiersin.org

Then we assessed the association between glutamate levels, and key features of the psychedelic state, e.g., the experience of ego dissolution, and disrupted resting state network (RSN) functional connectivity (FC). It has been repeatedly found that LSD, DMT, and psilocybin decrease within-network connectivity in several RSNs while increasing connectivity across such networks [30,31,32,33,34,35,36]. Affected RSNs include the default mode network (DMN), an interconnected group of brain structures including the medial prefrontal cortex (mPFC), posterior cingulate cortex, and inferior parietal lobule [37, 38]. Importantly, the DMN in particular has become closely associated with self-referential mental activity [37, 39], and psychedelic-induced alterations in DMN function have been repeatedly implicated in the experience of ego-dissolution [33, 40,41,42].

Me, myself, bye: regional alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin - Neuropsychopharmacology

There is growing interest in the therapeutic utility of psychedelic substances, like psilocybin, for disorders characterized by distortions of the self-experience, like depression. Accumulating preclinical evidence emphasizes the role of the glutamate system in the acute action of the drug on...

www.nature.com

Acute decrease in DMN connectivity is observed under both psilocybin and LSD (Carhart-Harris et al., 2012b; Müller et al., 2018). Decreased DMN connectivity likely relates to ego dissolution and may involve the dissolution of self-related priors (beliefs) sustained by the DMN. These priors may support a narrative sense of self that disintegrates during ego dissolution.

https://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/article/S0031-6997(24)00739-7/fulltext

^They also reference Freud here, so technically I'm slightly incorrect on that part, but so is the other person.

The DMN's role in directing attention inward—that manifests as self-oriented thoughts—also suggests its relationship to personal identity and the construct of narrative self, which is closely related to the Freudian concept of ego (Buckner et al., 2008; Carhart-Harris and Friston, 2010; Lebedev et al., 2015). In Freud's theory, the ego regulates behavior by suppressing the free energy of underlying subordinate structures, such as the limbic and paralimbic systems (Cieri and Esposito, 2019). The DMN similarly attenuates free energy and regulates behavior by controlling the selection of information channels.

Maybe you should learn to do basic research first before claiming that what I'm saying doesn't make any sense. You clearly don't know shit, tbh. For one, I'm pretty sure that these studies use shit like fMRI, which measure brain activity through showing changes in blood oxygen levels in different regions of the brain. Considering what we know about the DMN currently, what is being said actually makes perfect sense. Two, this research is literally being done by psychologists. Cognitive neuroscience is an interdisciplinary field that falls under biopsychology. In reality, neurobiology is something that is commonly looked at in modern-day psychology and psychology courses today generally require that you have at least a basic understanding of the subject. Hell, even my social psych class involved discussions on the neurobiological basis of certain psychological concepts, such as quickly going over the neurobiological differences between "liking" and "wanting" in order for us to understand why these two concepts are able to occur independently of one another. Just because you don't understand shit doesn't make it nonsense. So far, a lot of researchers believe that decreases in DMN activity play a role in ego-death.

 

[SovietSuicide]

Frontiers | Psychedelics, Meditation, and Self-Consciousness

In recent years, the scientific study of meditation and psychedelic drugs has seen remarkable developments. The increased focus on meditation in cognitive ne...

www.frontiersin.org

Me, myself, bye: regional alterations in glutamate and the experience of ego dissolution with psilocybin - Neuropsychopharmacology

There is growing interest in the therapeutic utility of psychedelic substances, like psilocybin, for disorders characterized by distortions of the self-experience, like depression. Accumulating preclinical evidence emphasizes the role of the glutamate system in the acute action of the drug on...

www.nature.com

https://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/article/S0031-6997(24)00739-7/fulltext

^They also reference Freud here, so technically I'm slightly incorrect on that part, but so is the other person.



Maybe you should learn to do basic research first before claiming that what I'm saying doesn't make any sense. You clearly don't know shit, tbh. For one, I'm pretty sure that these studies use shit like fMRI, which measure brain activity through showing changes in blood oxygen levels in different regions of the brain. Considering what we know about the DMN currently, what is being said actually makes perfect sense. Two, this research is literally being done by psychologists. Cognitive neuroscience is an interdisciplinary field that falls under biopsychology. In reality, neurobiology is something that is commonly looked at in modern-day psychology and psychology courses today generally require that you have at least a basic understanding of the subject. Hell, even my social psych class involved discussions on the neurobiological basis of certain psychological concepts, such as quickly going over the neurobiological differences between "liking" and "wanting" in order for us to understand why these two concepts are able to occur independently of one another. Just because you don't understand shit doesn't make it nonsense. So far, a lot of researchers believe that decreases in DMN activity play a role in ego-death.

You're continuing to ignore my point or just too dense to get it.

Psychedelics might have a repeatable effect on the patterns of activity & networks in the brain, that's not what I'm disputing.

An ego-death is a subjective experience & the idea of an ego itself is just a psychological concept.

fMRI shows changes in blood oxygenation doesn't mean you can read someone's mind. I'm talking about QUALIA motherfucker, do you understand?

HARD PROBLEM OF CONSCIOUSNESS

Please google it before I CTB even earlier, holy shit.

DMN is involved in self-referential processing. That doesn't get you from 'processing self-related information' to 'experiencing being a self', much less to 'experiencing the loss of self'. That's like saying a sound wave explains music.

Neuroscience doesn't touch the ontology of qualia. It just maps things that co-occur. And even if 100% of ego dissolution cases involve disrupted DMN connectivity, all you've proven is a correlation.

You're the one that clearly doesn't know what you're talking about. What kind of idiot comes into a conversation about god & starts talking about how religious thoughts are correlated with an uptick in the abc123 receptors . It's not even relevant, go back to Reddit.

 

[alongertripbackhome]

Ok so it fr depends on you, your brain, and the specific strain of whatever drug you're taking. The strain for weed actually matters. For most people indica just knocks them out a little bit but it makes me feel like I'm being really fucking annoying and makes my suicidality awful. Sativa however makes me feel less depressed. There are also hybrids and live resin/rosin and all this other shit you can look into to decide what you like best. Edibles, joints, carts, and pipes also feel a little different to me at least. It's going to all feel different for you too so don't listen to anyone talking like this is better/worse. it's about what works for you. You might hate drugs lol

Also I don't know shit about shroom strains but I do know they helped me feel okay admitting to myself I was trans. It dropped whatever barrier was in my brain that kept me from thinking about it. And that has probably really helped me long run. But also I've had a couple of bad experiences where I've felt really depressed on them. The advice I would give you before u try to use drugs as a way to help is to know that shrooms and even weed sorta amplify what's already going on in your brain. If you feel like shit and do a bunch a drugs ur probably gonna feel worse.

I won't tell you what to do or anything but I would recommend if you're gonna experiment do it in a place you feel safe with people you are comfortable with. Every bad experience I have had with drugs is from being around the wrong people, being in the wrong place, or taking a strain of something that doesn't work for me.