Discussion Conversation with a friend

[lament.]

This is also kind of a vent but I couldn't put 2 tags onto it, and if I can then I just can't figure out how. I really needed to share this somewhere cause while it might not seem like a big thing to others what was being said hurt me a lot, even though I know he didn't mean to.


So, I was having a conversation with my best best friend and the topic went to suicide (of another, not myself), to preface, I believe his mother committed suicide a few years ago so I understand why he would have strong opinions on the subject but he said something that really stood out to me. He said "People have it so much worse in other places, he's privileged and just wants to die anyway" - "Suicide is VERY selfish, people need to wake up and realize they can do anything with their lives as long as they have all their limbs" - "nothing holding anyone back, your life is yours to live, people like that are just so weak mentally".
He doesn't know I'm suicidal - I've told nobody other than my parents who believe I'm feeling better now (that's farthest from the truth.) I won't go into my reasons for why I'm suicidal in this post but I'm definitely a very privileged person and while I do suffer from chronic pain I could go out and do what I want like I said, so everything he said in relation to the topic could easily be applied to my situation and my life, but something about the way he mentions that suicide is very selfish and acts like everyone WANTS to go out and do things really hurt me. Personally I don't have any desire to do anything with my life and it's been that way for years, I feel like I'm just living for the sake of living and hearing him say all this made me think about how different he sees suicide compared to me which would be fine, but the fact that he sees it in the most negative and derogatory way possible is understandable but depressing at the same time.

Something I think about often is how my grandmother signed something that said if she were to have a heart attack or something like that, the doctors would just let it happen and allow her to die instead of providing medical attention. At first I was obviously distraught over her death but I quickly realized that for her to have done such a thing she must have been in constant pain and sick of life, so I respect her decision and believe that if that is what she wanted it is for the best, how is this different to a suicidal persons thoughts?

I'm too much of a coward to say any of this to him and I don't want to admit to him that I'm suicidal. So I want to hear what people here think about this, it's obvious and understandable that people will grieve when they lose their loved ones, but if I were to commit suicide it pains me to think that my family would see it as me betraying them and being selfish, when all I want is to be free.


Sorry if the format of this post is horrible, I've never posted a thread before. I'd love to hear other peoples thoughts on the situation or how maybe people are in a similar situation to me, or anything like that. Thank you.

 

[FuneralCry]

That person just sounds so incredibly insensitive, I think it's best to just take no notice of people like that as the reality is that wanting suicide is always a perfectly valid way to feel and none of us are obligated to continue existing here, I could personally never wish to endure something so dreadful and futile as existing and it will always be a personal decision deciding when to leave.

We are all just destined to die anyway so to me it's perfectly logical for someone to want to take control over their inevitable fate and avoid unnecessary suffering, I cannot stand anti-suicide people, just because they want to stay here doesn't mean that other people should have to.

 

[Goodgirlryeo101]

The whole notion that someone is so weak for wanting to commit suicide is very untrue as some people just don't enjoy living at all. Suicide is one of the top causes of death so by saying that it means that a lot of people are weak (what an ingorant thing to say).

Having or not having limbs is not the reason why people commit suicide and also why is it that a lot of rich and famous people who seem to have it all are still committing suicide. The thing is your life is your life alone and it's not anyone's and if you choose not to commit suicide because of how others might view it then you will not be living for yourself but others approval and validation.

Suicide is not selfish at all and to me it is selfish when anyone or others wants someone to continue living when the person just doesn't want to live anymore. Also not mentioning that you want to commit suicide is not a cowardice act as it as a very personal decision and there is no need for anyone to mention it unless if you want to try things like therapy and medication.

You have also to remember that there are people who are very anti-suicide and that think that committing suicide is wrong and I can never understand that way of thinking because you know what dying is so natural and we are all going to die anyway just on different dates and at different ages. For those who enjoy life and want to live their life until their day comes the j good for them. I will however, would want to be left alone as well with my decision to commit suicide.

OP do what's best for you and not what's best for others, I will never encourage you or anyone to commit suicide and it is very personal and life is a journey for everyone and it's not something that I have a right to approve or disapprove on.

All the best with whatever decision you end up taking.

 

[kogareta]

Hey, here's some ideas.
Theme of this reply is the song "Fool" by Bôa.

About the worse of worse.
Yes, it's so much worse in other places and we may be privileged and also want to die. But is this even a problem? I mean, why do people keep telling that there are so much worse in world, thus we should be happy? What about the ones that are luckier than us? Are we allowed to grieve over what has given to us at birth? I see people from other countries everyday and I say, wish I was in their place. I see girls and say, wish I was a girl as well. I see little spoiled boys who were born into rich families and say, wish my father was rich as well: it causes me physical pain to see my father fighting with all of the debt. If you can look at the worse and be happy, this means you can look at the better ones and think about things you've missed out on. If only one is allowed and the other one is not, it's an obvious hypocrisy meant to promote death or life.

About suicide being selfish.
It may or may not be. I will never be sure if something exists other than my consciousness. If it is real, it is so selfish that you kill yourself because of some stressful thing or some strong emotion or pain or whatever; but you leave your loved ones in pain. Maybe your father will feel that shitty feeling you have now till the end of his life. Maybe your mother will feel guilty because she'll think that she couldn't do what she was supposed to/she could. Your best friend will think that he wasn't a good friend for you and couldn't help you so he'll always have issues with people, he'll always think he is sufficient for people and maybe he'll get under a blanket of pain and loneliness until the end of his life. This is what is keeping me here. I don't think that there is an afterlife but my family and my only friend is still alive and I don't wanna risk it. They may *really* exist in the outside world and they may suffer because of me which is something I don't wanna cause.

About realizing the control over life and "low mental strength".
I can't say anything about this, we mostly do have control over our lives. We can do anything as long as we have our limbs in place and sometimes even when they're not. But there are some points in this thought: (I) we have control over it so we may end it as well. (II) people who wanna commit suicide often has some mental problems as well which means brain is not functioning as it should in a biological sense. For me, I think that my brain suffers from my thought pattern. When anything harsh happens, all I think is not getting over it but to kill myself asap so I can be free of the fact that I did something wrong. This shows that I am weak mentally which is a fact that I should admit. (III) a person may not want to keep on going. Life is theirs and do whatever. Maybe they don't enjoy the life, or maybe they don't wanna suffer bad things for the sake of finding good things.

 

[Fulminare]

Every time I hear the statement "You're weak if you resort to suicide" I let out a big sigh. Catching the bus is the toughest and bravest thing one could do.

OP, a lot of people are pro-life and anti-suicide. There's no way around the fact that some of your family and friends will turn to such thoughts. Whether you do it or not, try to make it easy on them by leaving behind a few words. I think people who really know you will show an understanding with time.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think a lot of us are selfish at the end of the day- including your friend. He doesn't want to lose the people he loves in life. None of us do. Sadly- he's known the pain first hand and he (understandably) doesn't want to experience it again. His sympathies also clearly lie with others who have or may in the future, experience loss. He clearly can't envisage how things can be SO bad for someone that they would choose to inflict that pain on others.

It's got to hurt for him deeply. His mother chose to end her suffering rather than to stay and support him. That's bound to hurt. I imagine it feels like she chose herself over him. Of course- everyone has the right to do that but it's bound to hurt when it's a parent and you (clearly) don't understand the depths of their unhappiness.

But that's just it- he DOESN'T understand. He likely can't imagine what it's like to get to the point where you're living ONLY for the sake of others until you just can't anymore. He clearly has a strong feeling of obligation towards living and others. Likely BECAUSE of what he's gone through. Yet- he likely hasn't experienced enough of life to know how he might act/ feel in the future.

I can in part relate. My Mum died (of natural causes) when I was 3. For me- it's a tetchy subject when parents are considering leaving their children. Because I know about the pain and the aftermath first hand- I find it more difficult to sympathise. I have this idea that if I had children, I'd never leave them. Of course- I have no idea. (I've ended up with an anti-natilist perspective. Seems safer not to have children to begin with- if there's a chance they will be unhappy.) I have a biased view on things because of my own experience and history.

I don't think your friend meant to upset you and you can kind of see why he has the bias he has. I expect a lot of people do view it as selfish though- because they're likely looking at it from the perspective of the people left behind with the grief.

It's sad that more people don't stop to REALLY think about what it takes for someone to end their own life. It's far from cowardly to go through with the act itself. Most people are frightened. We're not designed to make it easy to kill ourselves. Things have to be bad for people to get to that point. It's sad. It seems so rare to have people who REALLY think about just how alone and desperate that person felt.

Plus- it's a different kind of selfishness to theirs. They want their loved one to still be alive- basically because of what they could 'get' from them. People who kill themselves aren't trying to 'gain' anything. They are just so desperate for their pain to end. They don't actually WANT to hurt the people they leave behind either. Many will have been holding on just for them for years- even decades. It's just sad really that our psychological/ emotional struggles don't show physically- if our loved ones saw us bed ridden and debhilitated by disease- how much could they justify keeping us alive then? For their sake.