Discussion Clarification of "Stop Online Suicide Assistance Forums Act" - Please read this and quit panicking.

[damaged_soul]

In the early days of the internet, I was involved in the drafting of Section 230 back in the 90s. It started with CompuServe and Prodigy, early online networks with message forums, and dealt with liability for messages posted on the network. Without being indemnified, every single message would have to be reviewed and that would be nearly impossible. Most of the screamers calling for changes to 230 have no idea what they're talking about. If 230 were repealed, there would be chaos and less free speech because insurance premiums (Errors and Omissions, Directors and Officers, Liability) would become prohibitively expensive and all messages would have to be screened for liability before posting, which would require at least thousands of reviewers. That's what China does and it's a nightmare (and not allowed under our 1st Amendment). Here's history and background about Section 230 and why it was, and is, vital to free speech interests: https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/21/...t-created-the-internet-jeff-kosseff-interview

Cathy's done a great job explaining the draft of the bill. It's at a very early stage. Note at the top it's just called a DISCUSSION DRAFT. It's far from legislative language. And now, Congress is in it's lame duck session until January when the GOP will gain a very slim House majority. So far they've expressed no interest in governing or helping people; they're back to irrelevant investigations and culture wars. The GOP is also (somewhat hypocritically) pushing their "absolute free speech" positions, so the chance of movement on this seem slim. Cathy's also right about the forum itself vs. individual messages (in the three page Discussion Draft, the individual message criteria are very unclearly drafted). As Cathy said, please read the three-page Discussion Draft, it does have some general thoughts on things to consider commenting on or not. But knowing the slow wheels of government and the massive changes that are about to happen on Capitol Hill, it would be remarkable to see something like this make it out of committee, let alone make it to the House floor for a vote then proceed onward (see Schoolhouse Rock's "I'm Just A Bill" :).

It seems really premature to begin lobbying members of Congress about this. Can't imagine very many Members even know about it. Constituents bringing it up might backfire and attract more interest. If it moves forward, there will be key times to lobby. I believe this forum has every right to exist under 230, 1st Amendment free speech is being exercised, and almost all messages I've seen posted haven't been close to their standard of "material support". Just wanted to affirm Cathy's excellent posts and join in to encourage peace and calm.

Hey, you seem to know a lot about the legislative process! (Well a lot more than me at least lol) I was wondering you have any estimate about how long we will have safe access to this site? Do you think it will still be up and running throughout December and early January at least? I'm trying to figure out how much time I'll need to devote to copying down info from this site into my personal suicide research notes (as a backup in case the site gets taken down) during the holiday season. I made a post about this a couple days ago but people aren't giving me a timeframe, they're just saying that the forum will find a way to prevail, which I think is overly confident of an assertion to make.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

The thing about this is, if some form of this bill should pass and become law in the future, whether it is as narrow as this bill or more broad in nature, who exactly comes to bat to try and fight the new law in the courts? It's not like we have a lobby who fights on our behalf.

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

The thing about this is, if some form of this bill should pass and become law in the future, whether it is as narrow as this bill or more broad in nature, who exactly comes to bat to try and fight the new law in the courts? It's not like we have a lobby who fights on our behalf.

I've had dreams of going to law school and making this my work for the rest of my life. It would be worth sticking around for — fighting for other people's right to choose their end. No money, though.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I've had dreams of going to law school and making this my work for the rest of my life. It would be worth sticking around for — fighting for other people's right to choose their end. No money, though.

You're certainly right about the no money in it. It would have to be for principle.

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

You're certainly right about the no money in it. It would have to be for principle.

That is an excellent point, though not the one I was trying to make. I simply meant I have no money to go to law school. (I'm still paying off student loans from the previous degrees!) I'd love to be a human rights lawyer and work on this cause, even without the promise of compensation. I figure, to stop working and go to law school, I'd need a huge amount of money. I guess I figure this is only possible if I had a suddenly large influx of income, like a lottery jackpot or something. If that was the case, wouldn't really need to worry about making money!

Wouldn't it be great to have one of our own, who understands our situation, fighting the legal battles for us? That's the dream.

 

[nolifer]

Maybe things are different in USA but over here lawyers don't make the laws. I think it's a politician you should want to become if you want to create laws, or a lobbyist.

 

[Wisdom3_1-9]

Maybe things are different in USA but over here lawyers don't make the laws. I think it's a politician you should want to become if you want to create laws, or a lobbyist.

In the U.S., matters like this almost always end up before the Supreme Court. They have the final say on whether a law in unconstitutional or not.

 

[Rocket]

Hey, you seem to know a lot about the legislative process! (Well a lot more than me at least lol) I was wondering you have any estimate about how long we will have safe access to this site? Do you think it will still be up and running throughout December and early January at least? I'm trying to figure out how much time I'll need to devote to copying down info from this site into my personal suicide research notes (as a backup in case the site gets taken down) during the holiday season. I made a post about this a couple days ago but people aren't giving me a timeframe, they're just saying that the forum will find a way to prevail, which I think is overly confident of an assertion to make.

It will take far longer than the holidays. After the November Midterm Election, Republicans won a very small majority in the House of Representatives, and Democrats retained the Senate; so it's divided government, which usually means gridlock on everything. This period now until January when the new Congress convenes is called the "lame duck session". There are very few days they are actually in session, and the top priority is they need to fund the government, then possibly deal with the debt limit and other crucial things. All that's been published is a Discussion Draft. That's basically nothing. It would need to be reduced to legislative language, sent to committee, passed there, moved to the floor of the House, passed, then the Senate, then the President... you get the idea.

The possibility of anything happening on this before the new Congress convenes at noon on January 3 is virtually zero. Then the new Congress will have a ton of must-pass issues, that will take a few months at least. For something like this, maybe Fall 2023? Spring 2024? Or later. Unless there's some major, dramatic news event... but even then, remember how all the mass shootings happened and how long it took to get any gun safety measures passed? It's like that. These politicians write Discussion Drafts to satisfy some constituency, but the number of bills written vs. what passes is really low.

So a long answer to your good question -- you have plenty of time, SaSu isn't going anywhere.

This is "I'm Just A Bill" from Schoolhouse Rock -- this is what this will need to go through to become law (and its really cute).

 

[Teddybear]

The abillity to talk *openly* about suicide and the methods involved is what has kept me going up until now.

In the past I tried to talk my problems through with a psychologist: Instead of answering my questions she recommended "Eye Movement Theraphy" just to get me off her back. And I told that woman that I was going to kill myself, if I didn't get any better.

"Just learn to look the other way, when those bad memories reappear" was her suggestion. WTF?!!

I do disgusting things to myself when I am depressed and right now I am depri 24/7 four times a month. Society doesn't care about that - they just snub their noses at the likes of us. If you're not cool & hipp & trendy but "yucky", then they leave you rotting by the side of the road.

If I go living in agony until I kill someone for all that rage & hatred boiling inside me, "society" gets very upset and insists on punishing me harshly.

But if I want to kill myself, they change the law trying to stop me???

What insane mind makes up these rules? Function or be doomed. You either consume happily or we'll "make you be happy" by force.

And some people still wonder about the sky rocketing drug abuse all over the Western world.

But in practical terms: Anyone talking to someone who announces they are planning to "CTB tonight" and not trying to hold him or her off, might already be in violation of that law, if it passes.

Because you are leaving a person in distress and in imminent danger of dying w/o calling for help. How are we supposed to still openly communicate under such circumstances?

Nothing feeds depression more than loneliness. And if people in here have to start censoring themselves, it will not reduce suicide rates, but the opposite.

Parents and relatives need someone other than themselves to blame, so they come after forums such as this one.

What's next? We outlaw porn to combat rape or censor crime novels to restrain gang violence?
That bill got introduced by a Democrat from Massachusetts. White, liberal, affluent, do-gooder.

I met her kind during my f*cked up childhood: Always trying to smile in your face, while they tell you its really your problem.

 

[damaged_soul]

It will take far longer than the holidays. After the November Midterm Election, Republicans won a very small majority in the House of Representatives, and Democrats retained the Senate; so it's divided government, which usually means gridlock on everything. This period now until January when the new Congress convenes is called the "lame duck session". There are very few days they are actually in session, and the top priority is they need to fund the government, then possibly deal with the debt limit and other crucial things. All that's been published is a Discussion Draft. That's basically nothing. It would need to be reduced to legislative language, sent to committee, passed there, moved to the floor of the House, passed, then the Senate, then the President... you get the idea.

The possibility of anything happening on this before the new Congress convenes at noon on January 3 is virtually zero. Then the new Congress will have a ton of must-pass issues, that will take a few months at least. For something like this, maybe Fall 2023? Spring 2024? Or later. Unless there's some major, dramatic news event... but even then, remember how all the mass shootings happened and how long it took to get any gun safety measures passed? It's like that. These politicians write Discussion Drafts to satisfy some constituency, but the number of bills written vs. what passes is really low.

So a long answer to your good question -- you have plenty of time, SaSu isn't going anywhere.

This is "I'm Just A Bill" from Schoolhouse Rock -- this is what this will need to go through to become law (and its really cute).

Thank you so much for your detailed response!!!! I'm much less stressed and panicked now. I feel so happy that I won't have to spend my holidays toiling away compiling suicide research.

 

[BipolarExpress]

I'm still paying off student loans from the previous degrees

My student loans are one of many reasons why I want to catch the bus.

The abillity to talk *openly* about suicide and the methods involved is what has kept me going up until now.

In the past I tried to talk my problems through with a psychologist: Instead of answering my questions she recommended "Eye Movement Theraphy" just to get me off her back. And I told that woman that I was going to kill myself, if I didn't get any better.

"Just learn to look the other way, when those bad memories reappear" was her suggestion. WTF?!!

A lot of therapists just DO NOT GET IT, and yet people will say, "See a therapist" or "Have you talked to your therapist about this?" every time someone wants to talk about their suicidal ideations or depression.

 

[Teddybear]

My student loans are one of many reasons why I want to catch the bus.

A lot of therapists just DO NOT GET IT, and yet people will say, "See a therapist" or "Have you talked to your therapist about this?" every time someone wants to talk about their suicidal ideations or depression.

I told that damn woman in very drastic terms how messed up I feel unside and how f*cked up my childhood was. I told her I needed real answers to real questions that had been weighing me down all my life. And that my time was running out.

And to all that her reply was, that I should sign up to an online platform, where I should learn how to "look the other way" if haunting images reappear before my inner eye. Its called "Eye Movement Theraphy" and even sounds like a crook.

I don't suffer from faulty eyesight - I want to fucking kill myself!!
After I killed myself there surely will be some "expert" giving his high minded oppinion on what went wrong with me and maybe they'll even manage to blame it on SanSu.

But to give me a direct answer to a direct question of mine while I am still struggling to stay alive? No way José!

 

[sufferingextremely]

And to all that her reply was, that I should sign up to an online platform, where I should learn how to "look the other way" if haunting images reappear before my inner eye. Its called "Eye Movement Theraphy" and even sounds like a crook.

I don't suffer from faulty eyesight - I want to fucking kill myself!!

I fully support your right to choose and also your autonomy. I will also offer you some personal experience.

You seem to suffer from severe PTSD. That's what the things you describe sound like. I too suffer from severe PTSD that is extreme. What this therapist is talking about is called EMDR. It has nothing to do with fixing your eyesight, and "looking the other way" is also a strange and inaccurate way for that therapist to describe it.

EMDR is a therapeutic modality that has been proven to be very effective for PTSD (and other things). It is a fairly simple process and the main component involves moving your eyes back and forth as you follow a visual aid (like a little ball that moves back and forth). I have done this and it is like magic for eliminating or greatly reducing intrusive memories and flashbacks.

This may not make sense to a lot of people, but you have to remember that your eyes are a part of your brain. They are the only part of your brain that is visible. Somehow, thinking of these intrusive memories while moving your eyes in a pattern will cause them to go away. It may take a number of sessions per intrusive memory, but you can eventually get rid of them all.

The online portal she is talking about is probably the website called virtualEMDR. It costs $30 a month. I used it for a long time and it works very well. I may start using it again. It's been about 20 months and some of my stuff has came back. This is a condition that never gets fully better.

In my case, having these go away isn't enough on its own, and that's what has me feeling like I want to CTB. I am a ruined human being. My brain injury is so extreme as to render me unfit for life. I am handicapped and I live in constant torment as a result of my handicap.

I am also given to extreme hostility that makes me unfit to be around people. The business as usual thing to do with someone like me is to permanently institutionalize them. That's what they will do if this hostility ever gets the best of me. I play it safe as best I can and do everything that I can to avoid being around people.

But back to you, I hope the experience that I shared helps you in some way. EMDR was so effective for me that I noticed immediate results after the first session. My experience is typical too, not an exception at all. I have also done some progressive relaxation exercises that worked extremely well for my PTSD.

 

[Cathy Ames]

I will also offer you some personal experience.

Thank you for sharing!

EMDR is a therapeutic modality that has been proven to be very effective for PTSD (and other things). It is a fairly simple process and the main component involves moving your eyes back and forth as you follow a visual aid (like a little ball that moves back and forth). I have done this and it is like magic for eliminating or greatly reducing intrusive memories and flashbacks.
[...]
The online portal she is talking about is probably the website called virtualEMDR. It costs $30 a month. I used it for a long time and it works very well. I may start using it again.

I've never seen this before, and I think I will try it. It would be a real blessing for me to get rid of some of this crap I am carrying. It appears that maybe you get a cost savings by doing it through your therapist because the site currently says that it costs $69 for a month with cost savings for multiple month packages (goes down to about $50 per month).

For anyone interested, there is a 3-day free trial.

Thanks again, @sufferingextremely .

Edit: The cost goes down to ~$42 per month if you pay for a whole year at once. Sorry to be inaccurate. I wasn't considering that one.

 

[sufferingextremely]

Thank you for sharing!

I've never seen this before, and I think I will try it. It would be a real blessing for me to get rid of some of this crap I am carrying. It appears that maybe you get a cost savings by doing it through your therapist because the site currently says that it costs $69 for a month with cost savings for multiple month packages (goes down to about $50 per month).

For anyone interested, there is a 3-day free trial.

Thanks again, @sufferingextremely .

Edit: The cost goes down to ~$42 per month if you pay for a whole year at once. Sorry to be inaccurate. I wasn't considering that one.

Sounds like supply and demand + inflation. It's been almost 2 years. When I joined you could pay $30 a month, 1 month at a time or $75 a quarter. You are quite welcome. Glad to be able to help. If you'd like to learn about my progressive relaxation exercise that I developed, IM me. It is also very effective (although expensive up front).

 

[Teddybear]

I fully support your right to choose and also your autonomy. I will also offer you some personal experience.

You seem to suffer from severe PTSD. That's what the things you describe sound like. I too suffer from severe PTSD that is extreme. What this therapist is talking about is called EMDR. It has nothing to do with fixing your eyesight, and "looking the other way" is also a strange and inaccurate way for that therapist to describe it.

EMDR is a therapeutic modality that has been proven to be very effective for PTSD (and other things). It is a fairly simple process and the main component involves moving your eyes back and forth as you follow a visual aid (like a little ball that moves back and forth). I have done this and it is like magic for eliminating or greatly reducing intrusive memories and flashbacks.

This may not make sense to a lot of people, but you have to remember that your eyes are a part of your brain. They are the only part of your brain that is visible. Somehow, thinking of these intrusive memories while moving your eyes in a pattern will cause them to go away. It may take a number of sessions per intrusive memory, but you can eventually get rid of them all.

The online portal she is talking about is probably the website called virtualEMDR. It costs $30 a month. I used it for a long time and it works very well. I may start using it again. It's been about 20 months and some of my stuff has came back. This is a condition that never gets fully better.

In my case, having these go away isn't enough on its own, and that's what has me feeling like I want to CTB. I am a ruined human being. My brain injury is so extreme as to render me unfit for life. I am handicapped and I live in constant torment as a result of my handicap.

I am also given to extreme hostility that makes me unfit to be around people. The business as usual thing to do with someone like me is to permanently institutionalize them. That's what they will do if this hostility ever gets the best of me. I play it safe as best I can and do everything that I can to avoid being around people.

But back to you, I hope the experience that I shared helps you in some way. EMDR was so effective for me that I noticed immediate results after the first session. My experience is typical too, not an exception at all. I have also done some progressive relaxation exercises that worked extremely well for my PTSD.

There is gonna be a lot of venting in this reply, so reader beware, I warn in advance:

For as long as I can remember people in my immediate surroundings have been telling me "you are just imagining things! Go work on yourself and it will all go away. The problem is with you - not us!"

The beatings, the racism, the drug abuse - neither my mother, nor her abusive brother or any of my cowardly teachers would admit that there was something wrong with me being called "Nigger", "Son of the Monkeyman" and worse.

It took strangers - the parents of other schools children in my class or my deceased cousin - to tell me that the way they treated me was neither normal nor acceptable.

But by that time my childhood was over and done with and our past defines our presence and NONE OF THAT SHIT WILL GO AWAY JUST BECAUSE I LEARN TO JIGGLE MY EYEBALLS!!

I have white "liberals" lecture me on Facebook how I am supposed to call myself and the same whiteys who cry for the world look the other side when I'll get pulled out of the queue for a "random inspection" - yet none of the whites are "randomly chosen".

After 9/11 I couldn't check into any Motel w/o a "concerned citizen" calling the cops on me.

THIS SHEYIT IS REAL AND NO F*CKING PSYCHOLOGIST IS GONNA TELL ME TO JIGGLE MY EYES TO MAKE IT GO AWAY!!

I want the people - specially those from the do-gooder faction - to finally talk *honestly* about their own racism.

I wanted to get *practical* advise on how to have a final clearing conversation with my dying mom - instead I was told to learn to look the other way.

WHAT I EXPERIENCED WAS REAL AND I REFUSE BEING TAUGHT THAT I ONLY IMAGINED IT!!!

None of that was my fault - so why don't they teach my racist, violent, abusive Uncle how to look the other way?

The guy who kicked me out of his house, where I went to tell him how his sister died - just because I tried to talk with him about the night he beat up my mother in front of me for having "gotten herself impregnated by a nigger!"

I was barely sixteen years old at the time and only now * after she died - did I find out that he beat my mom regularly over the years.

And then the guy who didn't even show up for my mom's wake or funeral has the guts to act insulted.

Fuck EMDR!!! I want someone to take me serious, specially if I pay him or her for it!

Complete strangers and my kid cousin could do it, but not a woman who claims to be a professional psychologist?

I spend weeks alone in the appartment - with my mother gone to work - alone with my dying, moaning father next door. They cut him limb from limb and all that was left were his crutches leaning on the wall.

Weeks got damn it - HOW THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO WIGGLE THAT AWAY WITH MY EYEBALLS?!!"

My fellow classmates tried to shuff me off the school roof, to see if "the nigger makes a brown spot when he hits the pavement"

And my respectful teachers told me: "Don't be upset if they call you a nigger - you are one!"

My whole life have I been denied by people whose job it would have been to take me serious. Would they also send a white traumatized rape victim away to Eyeball Theraphy, just to get rid of her?!
On second thought: Are you just trying to make a sale's pitch here?

 

[sufferingextremely]

There is gonna be a lot of venting in this reply, so reader beware, I warn in advance:

For as long as I can remember people in my immediate surroundings have been telling me "you are just imagining things! Go work on yourself and it will all go away. The problem is with you - not us!"

The beatings, the racism, the drug abuse - neither my mother, nor her abusive brother or any of my cowardly teachers would admit that there was something wrong with me being called "Nigger", "Son of the Monkeyman" and worse.

It took strangers - the parents of other schools children in my class or my deceased cousin - to tell me that the way they treated me was neither normal nor acceptable.

But by that time my childhood was over and done with and our past defines our presence and NONE OF THAT SHIT WILL GO AWAY JUST BECAUSE I LEARN TO JIGGLE MY EYEBALLS!!

I have white "liberals" lecture me on Facebook how I am supposed to call myself and the same whiteys who cry for the world look the other side when I'll get pulled out of the queue for a "random inspection" - yet none of the whites are "randomly chosen".

After 9/11 I couldn't check into any Motel w/o a "concerned citizen" calling the cops on me.

THIS SHEYIT IS REAL AND NO F*CKING PSYCHOLOGIST IS GONNA TELL ME TO JIGGLE MY EYES TO MAKE IT GO AWAY!!

I want the people - specially those from the do-gooder faction - to finally talk *honestly* about their own racism.

I wanted to get *practical* advise on how to have a final clearing conversation with my dying mom - instead I was told to learn to look the other way.

WHAT I EXPERIENCED WAS REAL AND I REFUSE BEING TAUGHT THAT I ONLY IMAGINED IT!!!

None of that was my fault - so why don't they teach my racist, violent, abusive Uncle how to look the other way?

The guy who kicked me out of his house, where I went to tell him how his sister died - just because I tried to talk with him about the night he beat up my mother in front of me for having "gotten herself impregnated by a nigger!"

I was barely sixteen years old at the time and only now * after she died - did I find out that he beat my mom regularly over the years.

And then the guy who didn't even show up for my mom's wake or funeral has the guts to act insulted.

Fuck EMDR!!! I want someone to take me serious, specially if I pay him or her for it!

Complete strangers and my kid cousin could do it, but not a woman who claims to be a professional psychologist?

I spend weeks alone in the appartment - with my mother gone to work - alone with my dying, moaning father next door. They cut him limb from limb and all that was left were his crutches leaning on the wall.

Weeks got damn it - HOW THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO WIGGLE THAT AWAY WITH MY EYEBALLS?!!"

My fellow classmates tried to shuff me off the school roof, to see if "the nigger makes a brown spot when he hits the pavement"

And my respectful teachers told me: "Don't be upset if they call you a nigger - you are one!"

My whole life have I been denied by people whose job it would have been to take me serious. Would they also send a white traumatized rape victim away to Eyeball Theraphy, just to get rid of her?!

I am very sorry for all that you have been through. I'm also very sorry that you had an incompetent, lazy therapist. I didn't know much about the details of your suffering. I will read your posts to find out more about you.

Every last thing you described that happened to you is horribly wrong and I understand your pain. I can feel the horror of what you've been through just by reading about it, although what I feel as I read it will never come remotely close to what you go through over this.

I'm sorry my friend. I'm sorry for it all. If I could take it all away for you, believe me, I would. I know that you didn't imagine anything. Your lived experience is real and the problem is them and not you.

I had just read your post in this thread and it sounded like you had PTSD. That's why I gave you the details about EMDR. It was in no way an attempt to minimize what you've been through, but it seems to have had that effect and I am again very sorry.

 

[Teddybear]

I saw my black dad beat up my white mom, before she locked me up in the halway all night w/o food, before I saw her getting beat up by her racist brother.

I had NeoNazis tell me in boarding school - in front of the collectivly passive audience - how they planned to shuff my colored ass into the gas chamber.

That was after they made me crawl on all fours across the school floor because "Niggers are tough, but they don't fight. Niggers are cowards!"

How long should I wiggle my eyes to erase a lifetime full of fucked up memories?

1 hour of talk with the mother of my early deceased schooltime girlfriend is more wholesome to me than the almost three weeks I went back and forth with that useless theraphist.

 

[sufferingextremely]

My whole life have I been denied by people whose job it would have been to take me serious. Would they also send a white traumatized rape victim away to Eyeball Theraphy, just to get rid of her?!
On second thought: Are you just trying to make a sale's pitch here?

I am not making a sales pitch at all. I don't make any money from virtualEMDR or from the progressive relaxation exercise that I devised. I'm not selling anything. The reason that the exercise is expensive is because it uses a hypnosis machine and a hypnosis audio program. I have nothing to do with either, but they cost money. I give away the steps to the exercise I devised (and that my psychologist agreed with after the fact) for free to anyone who needs it. I'm just trying to help people (and I did help at least one person on this thread). I am disabled and on SSDI. That's where my money comes from.

 

[Teddybear]

I am not making a sales pitch at all. I don't make any money from virtualEMDR or from the progressive relaxation exercise that I devised. I'm not selling anything. The reason that the exercise is expensive is because it uses a hypnosis machine and a hypnosis audio program. I have nothing to do with either, but they cost money. I give away the steps to the exercise I devised (and that my psychologist agreed with after the fact) for free to anyone who needs it. I'm just trying to help people (and I did help at least one person on this thread). I am disabled and on SSDI. That's where my money comes from.

Hypnosis? Why not electroshocks or the pink pill?

If it helps you fine, but I am suffering from a lack of social justice. I am trying to get my immediate surroundings - the people who were supposed to care - to admit I was wronged.

And that gets more and more impossible, as they keep dying all before me.

W/o my memories I am just another loser who didn't cut it in life. With them at least I can explain how I got where I am.

I know I will fail in my quest, for time is not on my side. But no one will ever be allowed to suggest to me "just don't get so upset about it and they will stop tormenting you, for they will lose their fun w/o you crying"

Try to stop crying if they spit on you all the way.

I don't want to block or erase my memories, I want(ed) to find a way to live with them.

OK, that didn't work out. So now I need to find a way to die with them.

 

[sufferingextremely]

I saw my black dad beat up my white mom, before she locked me up in the halway all night w/o food, before I saw her getting beat up by her racist brother.

I had NeoNazis tell me in boarding school - in front of the collectivly passive audience - how they planned to shuff my colored ass into the gas chamber.

That was after they made me crawl on all fours across the school floor because "Niggers are tough, but they don't fight. Niggers are cowards!"

How long should I wiggle my eyes to erase a lifetime full of fucked up memories?

1 hour of talk with the mother of my early deceased schooltime girlfriend is more wholesome to me than the almost three weeks I went back and forth with that useless theraphist.

Every last bit of this is horrible. I can't imagine what it has to have been like to live through this. You have been belittled, abused, and treated as a 5th class citizen your whole life, from what this sounds like.

I haven't lived through what you've experienced, but I know what it is like to be treated as a man with no dignity for years at a time. That part I can identify with and it is also part of why I want to CTB.

I will tell you that every last bit of this that has happened to you is horribly wrong. It sounds like you need to hear that and it's baffling that you have such trouble getting others to acknowledge this. What has happened to you is horrific and an example of just how cruel this world can be.

I will not give you any more advice/information. I was trying to help you but made things worse.

Hypnosis? Why not electroshocks or the pink pill?

If it helps you fine, but I am suffering from a lack of social justice. I am trying to get my immediate surroundings - the people who were supposed to care - to admit I was wronged.

And that gets more and more impossible, as they keep dying all before me.

W/o my memories I am just another loser who didn't cut it in life. With them at least I can explain how I got where I am.

I know I will fail in my quest, for time is not on my side. But no one will ever be allowed to suggest to me "just don't get so upset about it and they will stop tormenting you, for they will lose their fun w/o you crying"

Try to stop crying if they spit on you all the way.

I don't want to block or erase my memories, I want(ed) to find a way to live with them.

In retrospect my advice most likely wasn't applicable to your situation. You said that you were haunted by memories and it sounded like they were intrusive memories of the kind that happen with PTSD. EMDR doesn't erase your memories, it just allows you think of them without reliving the trauma of the experience.

I'm not sure what the pink pill is but my hypnosis machine has helped me tremendously. I understand that it is offensive that your therapist deflected helping you. That's not where I was coming from at all. I was just providing information

 

[Teddybear]

I am not angry at yiu

Every last bit of this is horrible. I can't imagine what it has to have been like to live through this. You have been belittled, abused, and treated as a 5th class citizen your whole life, from what this sounds like.

I haven't lived through what you've experienced, but I know what it is like to be treated as a man with no dignity for years at a time. That part I can identify with and it is also part of why I want to CTB.

I will tell you that every last bit of this that has happened to you is horribly wrong. It sounds like you need to hear that and it's baffling that you have such trouble getting others to acknowledge this. What has happened to you is horrific and an example of just how cruel this world can be.

I will not give you any more advice/information. I was trying to help you but made things worse.

I am not angry at you, but the very concept of EMDR makes me fuming. And I accept no excuse for a theraphist who wouldn't even entertain an alternative treatment.

I literary begged her to sit down with me and talk about these things and find me a way how I could at least clear things up between me and my mom.

How was I supposed to eyeball whiggle my mom out of denial? How should I deal with my abusive uncle? Should I learn to accept his violence and racism?

How the heck should EMDR help me with *any* of that?!!

 

[sufferingextremely]

I am not angry at yiu


I am not angry at you, but the very concept of EMDR makes me fuming. And I accept no excuse for a theraphist who wouldn't even entertain an alternative treatment.

I literary begged her to sit down with me and talk about these things and find me a way how I could at least clear things up between me and my mom.

How was I supposed to eyeball whiggle my mom out of denial? How should I deal with my abusive uncle? Should I learn to accept his violence and racism?

How the heck should EMDR help me with *any* of that?!!

You are exactly right. This therapist is incompetent. I did therapy for 10 years and I was lucky to have very good and skilled therapists. I also read a lot of recovery books. I'm again sorry that you've had such a bad experience and your pain resonates with me, although I arrived where I am in a different way.

 

[Teddybear]

You are exactly right. This therapist is incompetent. I did therapy for 10 years and I was lucky to have very good and skilled therapists. I also read a lot of recovery books. I'm again sorry that you've had such a bad experience and your pain resonates with me, although I arrived where I am in a different way.

I was *desperate* for advise on "confronting" my dying mother about our messed up past. I didn't want to risk the fragile relationship I had built up with her since her incapacitation. But on the other hand I *needed* that emotional clearance from her: "Whatever went wrong in my own life, its not your fault as a son"

I wanted, I begged for practical advise how to go about it. But all I got was a "go somewhere else with your problems" speech.

And now my mother is dead and burried and all I am left with is her drunkard brother who kicked me out the house when I just mentioned 1 of the many beatings he gave to my mom.

I'll never get another chance to clean that up and now I'll have to carry all this nasty with me until the day I die.

No Eye Movement exercise will give me my childhood back. The one and only schooltime girlfriend I had died of blood cancer, my mom was on psych meds most of her life, my first fiance was the bi-polar drug-addicted daughter of a gun running black-phanter activist and my second the result of a rape.

My relationship to women has been messed up from day one. The first words I can remember my mom saying to me were: "Now I am stuck with you you black ..."

That was after my dad had left her ... or she left him?
Then she moved back in with him when he fell ill, for love as she claimed. But the nasty, ugly things she later said about my father whenever she got mad at me "...and you are just like him!" make me question that a lot.

I could *never* talk with anyone from my family about it, and I had few friends from my childhood left. So I wanted a self-prescribed expert to help me make sense out of this mess.

Not to teach me, how to look the other way.
. . .

Frankly speaking, just talking openly about it here helps me more than the 2 1/2 weeks I wasted on that theraphist. So where should the lost ones like me go, if they shut down SancSu??

 

[sufferingextremely]

I was *desperate* for advise on "confronting" my dying mother about our messed up past. I didn't want to risk the fragile relationship I had built up with her since her incapacitation. But on the other hand I *needed* that emotional clearance from her: "Whatever went wrong in my own life, its not your fault as a son"

I wanted, I begged for practical advise how to go about it. But all I got was a "go somewhere else with your problems" speech.

And now my mother is dead and burried and all I am left with is her drunkard brother who kicked me out the house when I just mentioned 1 of the many beatings he gave to my mom.

I'll never get another chance to clean that up and now I'll have to carry all this nasty with me until the day I die.

No Eye Movement exercise will give me my childhood back. The one and only schooltime girlfriend I had died of blood cancer, my mom was on psych meds most of her life, my first fiance was the bi-polar drug-addicted daughter of a gun running black-phanter activist and my second the result of a rape.

My relationship to women has been messed up from day one. The first words I can remember my mom saying to me were: "Now I am stuck with you you black ..."

That was after my dad had left her ... or she left him?
Then she moved back in with him when he fell ill, for love as she claimed. But the nasty, ugly things she later said about my father whenever she got mad at me "...and you are just like him!" make me question that a lot.

I could *never* talk with anyone from my family about it, and I had few friends from my childhood left. So I wanted a self-prescribed expert to help me make sense out of this mess.

Not to teach me, how to look the other way.
. . .

Frankly speaking, just talking openly about it here helps me more than the 2 1/2 weeks I wasted on that theraphist. So where should the lost ones like me go, if they shut down SancSu??

I'm very glad that this forum helps you and I wholeheartedly agree that the people who want to shut it down can go to hell. I don't know who they think they are, to lord over peoples' lives so intimately and to try to make the decisions of people they know nothing about for them. I live in the U.S. where this law has been introduced (sounds like you do too) and it is such a joke when you look at how this country is run and how life here works.

Most states here have the death penalty. I'm not aware of any law, federal or state, that prohibits executing the mentally ill, yet our rotten government claims to support this bill out of a desire to protect the mentally ill. The state can kill you but you can't end your own life. This is not pro-life is is pro the government owning your life.

I was *desperate* for advise on "confronting" my dying mother about our messed up past. I didn't want to risk the fragile relationship I had built up with her since her incapacitation. But on the other hand I *needed* that emotional clearance from her: "Whatever went wrong in my own life, its not your fault as a son"

I wanted, I begged for practical advise how to go about it. But all I got was a "go somewhere else with your problems" speech.

And now my mother is dead and burried and all I am left with is her drunkard brother who kicked me out the house when I just mentioned 1 of the many beatings he gave to my mom.

I'll never get another chance to clean that up and now I'll have to carry all this nasty with me until the day I die.

No Eye Movement exercise will give me my childhood back. The one and only schooltime girlfriend I had died of blood cancer, my mom was on psych meds most of her life, my first fiance was the bi-polar drug-addicted daughter of a gun running black-phanter activist and my second the result of a rape.

My relationship to women has been messed up from day one. The first words I can remember my mom saying to me were: "Now I am stuck with you you black ..."

That was after my dad had left her ... or she left him?
Then she moved back in with him when he fell ill, for love as she claimed. But the nasty, ugly things she later said about my father whenever she got mad at me "...and you are just like him!" make me question that a lot.

I could *never* talk with anyone from my family about it, and I had few friends from my childhood left. So I wanted a self-prescribed expert to help me make sense out of this mess.

Not to teach me, how to look the other way.
. . .

Frankly speaking, just talking openly about it here helps me more than the 2 1/2 weeks I wasted on that theraphist. So where should the lost ones like me go, if they shut down SancSu??

My heart breaks for you my friend.

 

[ClownW0rld]

More bullshit laws designed to restrict our freedom. Another classic example of the government using the law to tackle the symptom of the problem, rather than addressing the underlying issue.

 

[Teddybear]

I'm very glad that this forum helps you and I wholeheartedly agree that the people who want to shut it down can go to hell. I don't know who they think they are, to lord over peoples' lives so intimately and to try to make the decisions of people they know nothing about for them. I live in the U.S. where this law has been introduced (sounds like you do too) and it is such a joke when you look at how this country is run and how life here works

I used to live in the States for almost twenty years. The last ten of them I spend on the rez in the four corner's area.

The summers were smeltering hot, the winters bonebreakingly cold yet those were the happiest years of my life.

I had my own land, I pumped my own water and made my own electricity from wind and solar. I lived wild and free and felt like nothing could put me back in the land of hurt and pain.

And then came 9/11: First my GC sponsor abandoned all his candidates - me just weeks away from the final filing - and then I ran out of money to extend my investor's visa.

Suddenly I had become an "undesierable" alien. I tried my luck a few more times, but US immigration laws got more hostile with each passing year.

Now I am stuck back in the country that gave me all my childhood nightmares, freezing my ass off for white blonde Ukrainians who are welcomed as heroes - while colored refuges are treated like something the cat dragged in.

I hate my life and I hate myself for being unable to change anything about it.

 

[wait.what]

Shit, there's some gold in this thread. First of all, thank you to @Rocket for your perspective. It's really helpful to get information from someone who helped develop Section 230.

Second, there actually are lobbyists out there defending that little paragraph of law. The Electronic Frontier Foundation is one I know of. They probably don't want to get caught defending this site, but they do good work.
Here's a link to their infographic on the importance of Section 230.

It's true nobody likes us, and nobody's ever going to. Weakening Section 230 is a terrible idea that would negatively effect some powerful industries, however. You know where else "children" can get suicide method information? Fucking Amazon. Final Exit and the Peaceful Pill Handbook are both on there. How do you decide that a once-obscure internet forum has provided "material support" to someone's suicide, but Jeff Bezos hasn't when he sells the same information? At least we're not making money out of the deal.

There's also almost no original methods content on here, except for commonly-known information like how to tie a noose. Well, and weird, desperate stuff on the order of "could I garrote myself with dental floss…?" Probably 80% of methods threads are about either SN or N, and that information is sourced directly from Philip Nitschke. I'm not sure how the U.S. Congress plans on chasing him around, since he doesn't live here. Australia would have to agree to extradite him, which I doubt they would do. The proposed law is idiotic, so why would they agree to comply with that?

I met her kind during my f*cked up childhood: Always trying to smile in your face, while they tell you its really your problem.

Ugh, I hate that shit. I didn't really realize how disgustingly bigoted my country is until the anti-police brutality protests of 2020, and of course what happened to Breonna Taylor. Openly racist people (and there are a lot) are just like, "Screw the n———s." Then there's the closet racists who are "helping" by doing exactly what you said. Telling disenfranchised people they need to shape up and act better so the openly-racist people don't pick on them. Do the openly racist people have to change? Why, no! Do the closet racists intend to change anything about themselves, or alter any of the institutions that favor them? Oh, hell no! And they don't even know they're racists.

That shit made me so angry in 2020 that I almost entirely quit social media. The news, too. I couldn't even go out to the store for a while because just seeing fucking people made me furious. I'm mostly dealing right now, but I'm much more isolated than before. I know as little as I can get away with about anything that happens outside my house.

Most states here have the death penalty. I'm not aware of any law, federal or state, that prohibits executing the mentally ill, yet our rotten government claims to support this bill out of a desire to protect the mentally ill. The state can kill you but you can't end your own life. This is not pro-life is is pro the government owning your life.

That is a brilliant fucking point. Can I quote you? If so, do you want to be anonymous? It might be a good idea.

 

[ayb]

This site desperately needs a Tor backup

 

[Teddybear]

This site desperately needs a Tor backup

Don't put too much trust in Tor. The FBI, the CIA and many others host their own Tor servers and if they truly want to locate you they eventually will. That is why darknet platforms limit their customer base and/or keep relocating their equipment.

It takes a lot(!) of tech know how to be able to take on the bloodhounds of the US government. And the EU IT do-gooders have by now also learned to distinguish a bit from a baud.