Discussion Challenging Pro Lifers preaching & What do You think or say?

[lightsoutnow]

Im trapped thou :(

lm really sorry that you are :( I would offer tangible help but am pretty helpless myself. i can only offer my inbox if you want to rant or share funny gifs

 

[MeltingHeart]

I agree. This website SS i s the only place online or irL that I've been able to discuss suicide or ask about methods.

Everywhere else besides SS if i say i want to commit suicide then people tell me stuff like that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" .

And these anti-suicide people won't listen . I can't use logic with them and i've had several debates with people online in various platforms like youtube, internet forums etc. .

Of course i don't dare mention suicide or death in real life or in the real world , in person as i know they would call the police on me and get me put in a mental hospital, get me doxed, fired etc.

i have to remain anonymous and underground to even talk about suicide or else we'll be put in a mental hospital ,doxed etc.

I can't use logic like what does my suicide have to do with anyone else? Why can't i purchase something for personal use that will end my unbearable unending pain ? why must i suffer in pain for what reason?

I have no reason to live anyway. And we all die and age anyway. They can't even admit that some people might have a horrible life. They can't see that my choice to commit suicide is a rational reasoned response to the badness of my life not mental illness.

They can't even see the logic that my suicide will solve all my problems and pain at once and prevent any future , problems, pain, aging and painful death that will happen anyway. To me that's logical . To them i have to suffer and soldier on for what?

They can't even admit that some people might have a horrible life. They can't see that my choice to commit suicide is a rational reasoned response to the badness of my life not mental illness. This bit!! Its so true - that instant response/ reaction is ALWAYS one of mental illness- of course I can in part understand that some people say that if you wish to take your life- that is, in and of itself a kind of mental illess- I'd rather call it a kind of extreme emotional torment despair (with no capacity for hope left) the mental illness tag fails to take into consideration the entire scope of that persons reasons- the life you have lived thus far & the chance of what it could realistically be in the future, the mentally ill thing fails to consider all the aspects of that persons personality in some senses-all their hope and dreams & what the wished there life could have been against what is is the diagnostic manual of psychiatric disorders is purely clinical/ medical failing to be able to cover the' spirit and soul' of a person that can be crushed and destroyed- there is no such diagnois for that and know such 'cure'- I have even said to friends & psyhiatrists - that part of what I have is simply PROFOUND regret- and they even admitted that there is no cure for that & it doest even necessarily indicate a mental illness as such. I wish people could just open their tiny minds and even entertain the idea that is MIGHT sometimes be a rational decision- it actually quite simple-youve stuggled desperately for half your life, its get worse and worse, and now you dont enjoy one minute of your life anymore (for what ever reason that may be-you just dont!) - the conclusion to me if pretty damn rational- and to make that person suffer and 'soilder on' (as you said) well it gets to the point where to continually force someone to do that actually verges on a form of torture-its quite sadistic- to make someone continue to suffer so much - purely for your own moral values and self interest!! Its become the ultimate cruelty to me- on top of all the others I have endured in life.

 

[purplemoon]

I don't know about you all, but this song "It's Too Late to Apologize" expresses it for me...

Too much damage, too little Love in this world...
​

They can't even admit that some people might have a horrible life. They can't see that my choice to commit suicide is a rational reasoned response to the badness of my life not mental illness. This bit!! Its so - that instant response/ reaction is ALWAYS one of mental illness- of course I can in part understand that some people say that if you wish to take your life- that is, in and of itself a kind of mental illess- I'd rather call it a kind of extreme emotional torment despair (with no capacity for hope left) the mental illness tag fails to take into consideration the entire scope of that persons reasons- the life you have lived thus far & the chance of what it could realistically be in the future, the mentally ill thing fails to consider all the aspects of that persons personality in some senses-all their hope and dreams & what the wished there life could have been against what is is the diagnostic manual of psychiatric disorders is purely clinical/ medical failing to be able to cover the' spirit and soul' of a person that can be crushed and destroyed- there is no such diagnois for that and know such 'cure'- I have even said to friends & psyhiatrists - that part of what I have is simply PROFOUND regret- and they even admitted that there is no cure for that & it doest even necessarily indicate a mental illness as such. I wish people could just open their tiny minds and even entertain the idea that is MIGHT sometimes be a rational decision- it actually quite simple-youve stuggled desperately for half your life, its get worse and worse, and now you dont enjoy one minute of your life anymore (for what ever reason that may be-you just dont!) - the conclusion to me if pretty damn rational- and to make that person suffer and 'soilder on' (as you said) well it gets to the point where to continually force someone to do that actually verges on a form of torture-its quite sadistic- to make someone continue to suffer so much - purely for your own moral values and self interest!! Its become the ultimate cruelty to me- on top of all the others I have endured in life.

Absolutely fantastic points, and very succinctly written...

*mentally ill* is a bunch of ridiculous brainwashing...

How about if someone pinched their back continuously for 10 hours, let's say, and then when they finally cried out screaming they just can't take it anymore, that we tell them "they are mentally ill" and "need help"...
Our pain, our suffering is invisible to them, AND their life and resources are likely better than ours... so maybe they just conclude that we are being 'emotional'....

Well, it sure is difficult to not be 'emotional' when you've been traumatized and abandoned, abused, and under continuous stress.... Maybe I should skip down the sidewalk and just smile at everyone so I don't "inconvenience" their happy and easy life?!?

 

[WhiteDespair]

@purplemoon you're a better person than I am.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I don't know about you all, but this song "It's Too Late to Apologize" expresses it for me...

Too much damage, too little Love in this world...
​

Absolutely fantastic points, and very succinctly written...

*mentally ill* is a bunch of ridiculous brainwashing...

How about if someone pinched their back continuously for 10 hours, let's say, and then when they finally cried out screaming they just can't take it anymore, that we tell them "they are mentally ill" and "need help"...
Our pain, our suffering is invisible to them, AND their life and resources are likely better than ours... so maybe they just conclude that we are being 'emotional'....

Well, it sure is difficult to not be 'emotional' when you've been traumatized and abandoned, abused, and under continuous stress.... Maybe I should skip down the sidewalk and just smile at everyone so I don't "inconvenience" their happy and easy life?!?

Yep! why are we meant to pretend that what has effected us hasnt- In fact I have only just been told this - about 20 years too late by a psychiatrist- that this has caused me alot of severe emotional damage in itself!- the fact that I wasnt allowed to talk about my emotions and feelings, I wasnt allowed to be honest about how I felt, i've surpressed ALL these things for SO many years - that now that have come back to haunt me threefold!! If id been permitted to acknowledge & express them sooner (and in turn got the help needed) there is a DAMN good chance I wouldnt have reached this stage. Also even at this stage im being told im exaggerating & just being 'self-pitying' - i want to end my life!- cant help but feel that is slightly past simply 'feeling a bit sorry for yourself' - I mentioned how I had gone part grey (hair) this year (since breakdown) & was told- dont be silly that only happens in real trauma-like if someone dies- as if repeatedly trying to take your own life- and feeling like you want to every single day for nearly a year isnt traumatic!

 

[purplemoon]

While I'm at it, here's a song about family...

Yep! why are we meant to pretend that what has effected us hasnt- In fact I have only just been told this - about 20 years too late by a psychiatrist- that this has caused me alot of severe emotional damage in itself!- the fact that I wasnt allowed to talk about my emotions and feelings, I wasnt allowed to be honest about how I felt, i've surpressed ALL these things for SO many years - that now that have come back to haunt me threefold!! If id been permitted to acknowledge & express them sooner (and in turn got the help needed) there is a DAMN good chance I wouldnt have reached this stage. Also even at this stage im being told im exaggerating & just being 'self-pitying' - i want to end my life!- cant help but feel that is slightly past simply 'feeling a bit sorry for yourself' - I mentioned how I had gone part grey (hair) this year (since breakdown) & was told- dont be silly that only happens in real trauma-like if someone dies- as if repeatedly trying to take your own life- and feeling like you want to every single day for nearly a year isnt traumatic!

Isn't it ludicous? And insulting?

Oh... so he said you're "just feeling sorry for yourself"?! Even if you are/were, how else are you supposed to feel? Elated about it?
So according to his 'theory' then... if he gets traumatized by a mugger who breaks and injures his arm, and he gets upset and stressed, then he is "just feeling sorry for himself" or possibly "mentally ill"...

Wow. I wouldn't even value his opinion after that.








and definitely Wide Awake song (after the awkward start)...

Pretty much sums up how I feel so done with most of the people in this world, except the few kind ones with actual morals, empathy, and goodness...

 

[Thereisalwaysachoice]

That's incredibly brave of you.

For you I would say this...


Those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind...

in this world they have money and material things, but in the afterlife their tiny black dot of a spirit will have just the opposite.

You will have the opposite of what you have here... you will have joy, safety, and peace

One day you will only have goodness and love around you, and we shall be friends in heaven.

Don't let the cold world change who you are,
and this physical realm is not who you are on the inside...

Except there is one problem with this. This is based on the assumption that there is an afterlife. We have no evidence that there is any such afterlife. Evidence seems to point to the idea that our lives here, who and what we have, are all there is. Once we are dead,.it is likely that is it.

 

[BridgeJumper]

You all have good points, but Im too dehydrated and sleep deprived to make a coherent comment.
Ill just say thats what they all do = say a few nice words, pretend they care then dissapear from your life a few days or weeks later, thinkingthey fixed you
Or, even more often, they will tell you to get over it and stop self pitying and attention seeking.
Bonus points if they dont give a single fuck about you all your life and only step in to stop you from ctb because they want their conscience to be clean
The grammy award for the most dystopian society ever.
Im out.

My dad basically paid a hundred bucks to be told to find some hobbys and meet some friends. Yeah, that will totally erase his pain, And my pain. And the pain of everyone else on here.

 

[purplemoon]

@purplemoon you're a better person than I am.

Except there is one problem with this. This is based on the assumption that there is an afterlife. We have no evidence that there is any such afterlife. Evidence seems to point to the idea that our lives here, who and what we have, are all there is. Once we are dead,.it is likely that is it.

I don't need evidence, I have my NDE experience personally and directly.

You are free to think and believe whatever you like.

I am going with my own personal experience, not the bible, not organized religion, not other humans' ideas of evidence. At the time of my overdose in the past I had a direct witness who literally sat next to my bed as my heart stopped, my breathing stopped and she estimated around 4 minutes I was dead. I saw other events out of my body nearby that were later confirmed true.

I don't need to convince anyone, I am here to share my thoughts, feelings, experiences, and opinions just like anyone else of course.

I respect your opinion and of course think as you like.

 

[ThingWithFeathers]

Hi there, @purplemoon, I'm not suicidal. Neither I'm a pro-lifer nor religious. I strongly support euthanasia. I believe there are people who genuinely offer practical, effective, materialistic and meaningful help to suicidals that will make them love their life again. There are such members here in this website too.

Some points, if you wish to consider:

a) Many people on this website have already made up their mind to kill themselves. They are only looking for "how-to" on committing suicide. They are not looking for other options, they have already closed the doors on potential helpers.

b) Many people who are suicidal are severely depressed or have been hurt badly in their life (some PTSD cases) or have issues with self esteem (some NEETs). Sometimes such people are so sensitive that they may perceive even a positive approach of a helper as threatening so they lock themselves in a shell and cut off any possibility of help.

c) Then there are suicidals who are impulsive or who have other mental illness. Their brain doesn't allow them to rationally seek help. "You cannot reason yourself out of a situation you did not reason yourself into."

d) Mental illness/impulsivity makes it daunting for helpers to offer help wholeheartedly because the behaviour of such suicidal people is sometimes unpredictable.

e) Suicidals are sometimes scared of helpers because the helpers might snitch to the Law Enforcement Agencies to sabotage their plans. This fear precludes them from getting help.

f) The potential helpers are sometimes scared of the suicidals because if things go wrong and if the suicidal person blames it on the helper in their suicide note then the helper can get implicated. In some countries, if your name is mentioned in a suicide note as an abettor then you can get jail time.

g) Some suicidals have embarrassing personal reasons to kill themselves. Unless they open up they can't get the right help or get what they really need.

h) Shrinks and therapist have best intentions but their professionalism and their licensing body's code of conduct doesn't allow them to bond with the patient/client at a personal level that the suicidal person wants.

i) It's incorrect to say that the government wants people to stay alive for tax reasons. The monetary savings from non-intervention far outweighs any possible tax revenue. Also, the NEET or unemployed people who are on disability benefits aren't a source of income to the government.

Having said all this, you may ask, so what am I doing here? Well, I'll mention couple of my recent experience:

Last month, I came across a person on this website who happened to be from my city. She had already ordered and was awaiting delivery of the drugs to off herself. In the meantime, we exchanged over 20 long messages and I repeatedly mentioned that I'm willing to offer "any" help that she might need in case she would like to give life a chance. Only in the last message she mentioned some very embarrassing issues that she was going through and couldn't gather herself to share that with me, partially because she was scared of being judged. It was then that her drugs must have been delivered. Then she ghosted on me. I tried a lot to reach out to her but it was in vain. Dozens of hours that I invested in her pro bono seemed futile. I wish she had given me a chance.

Another example, last week, a suicidal person wanted to communicate with me, so we did. I let her know early on that I'm not suicidal. Then she wrote to me, "Actually I don't expected you were "normal", I mean not suicidal...well it's a good thing but what am trying to say is that I don't want to be stopped...so maybe cutting ties is better". I made it clear that I'm not going to stop her from doing what she wants to do but anyhow that was the last time we communicated. She didn't even give me a chance to help her give a chance to her life.

So here is the thing, I'm willing to help in every possible way, I'm willing to be there, I'm willing to be a human to another human, and I try, sometimes I dedicate hours a week to all these beautiful people, sadly, only sometimes I succeed. Can't do every nice thing that you may want, but you'd surely need all the kind things that I can do for you. And yes, that's me irl too.

 

[BridgeJumper]

Can definitely relate to the distrust of normal people and cutting them off constantly in case they decide to ruin my plan.
I could definitelygive talking to you a shot, but the thing is, most of those 'helpful' people only help out of self interest. Its hard to come by someone who genuinely cares. So I have no feelings of attachment to these people whatsoever, even to my closest relatives sometimes, and sooner the world will all crumble down than I will open up to them. Especially after the 35 hospitalizations and all the drugging and ridicule. Fat chance.

 

[purplemoon]

Hi there, @purplemoon, I'm not suicidal. Neither I'm a pro-lifer nor religious. I strongly support euthanasia. I believe there are people who genuinely offer practical, effective, materialistic and meaningful help to suicidals that will make them love their life again. There are such members here in this website too.

Some points, if you wish to consider:

a) Many people on this website have already made up their mind to kill themselves. They are only looking for "how-to" on committing suicide. They are not looking for other options, they have already closed the doors on potential helpers.

b) Many people who are suicidal are severely depressed or have been hurt badly in their life (some PTSD cases) or have issues with self esteem (some NEETs). Sometimes such people are so sensitive that they may perceive even a positive approach of a helper as threatening so they lock themselves in a shell and cut off any possibility of help.

c) Then there are suicidals who are impulsive or who have other mental illness. Their brain doesn't allow them to rationally seek help. "You cannot reason yourself out of a situation you did not reason yourself into."

d) Mental illness/impulsivity makes it daunting for helpers to offer help wholeheartedly because the behaviour of such suicidal people is sometimes unpredictable.

e) Suicidals are sometimes scared of helpers because the helpers might snitch to the Law Enforcement Agencies to sabotage their plans. This fear precludes them from getting help.

f) The potential helpers are sometimes scared of the suicidals because if things go wrong and if the suicidal person blames it on the helper in their suicide note then the helper can get implicated. In some countries, if your name is mentioned in a suicide note as an abettor then you can get jail time.

g) Some suicidals have embarrassing personal reasons to kill themselves. Unless they open up they can't get the right help or get what they really need.

h) Shrinks and therapist have best intentions but their professionalism and their licensing body's code of conduct doesn't allow them to bond with the patient/client at a personal level that the suicidal person wants.

i) It's incorrect to say that the government wants people to stay alive for tax reasons. The monetary savings from non-intervention far outweighs any possible tax revenue. Also, the NEET or unemployed people who are on disability benefits aren't a source of income to the government.

Having said all this, you may ask, so what am I doing here? Well, I'll mention couple of my recent experience:

Last month, I came across a person on this website who happened to be from my city. She had already ordered and was awaiting delivery of the drugs to off herself. In the meantime, we exchanged over 20 long messages and I repeatedly mentioned that I'm willing to offer "any" help that she might need in case she would like to give life a chance. Only in the last message she mentioned some very embarrassing issues that she was going through and couldn't gather herself to share that with me, partially because she was scared of being judged. It was then that her drugs must have been delivered. Then she ghosted on me. I tried a lot to reach out to her but it was in vain. Dozens of hours that I invested in her pro bono seemed futile. I wish she had given me a chance.

Another example, last week, a suicidal person wanted to communicate with me, so we did. I let her know early on that I'm not suicidal. Then she wrote to me, "Actually I don't expected you were "normal", I mean not suicidal...well it's a good thing but what am trying to say is that I don't want to be stopped...so maybe cutting ties is better". I made it clear that I'm not going to stop her from doing what she wants to do but anyhow that was the last time we communicated. She didn't even give me a chance to help her give a chance to her life.

So here is the thing, I'm willing to help in every possible way, I'm willing to be there, I'm willing to be a human to another human, and I try, sometimes I dedicate hours a week to all these beautiful people, sadly, only sometimes I succeed. Can't do every nice thing that you may want, but you'd surely need all the kind things that I can do for you. And yes, that's me irl too.

I appreciate the sentiment and gesture, but it would not be safe for me to interact with you beyond this screen. I have no idea who you are, and for all I know you could be a man that tries to take advantage of vulnerable women. There are all sorts of predators out there.

I am curious though, how exactly would you want to help people then?

You mentioned you 'dedicate many hours a week'... is this volunteer work for an agency? your own personal journey? part of your job? I would need to know more please.

If you just want to refer people to some agency that will give them counseling etc, I'm flat out not interested. I'm usually more intelligent than my own 'counselor', and have volunteered for a variety of agencies, and I know how they think and function. I've already tried those avenues of 'help'. They don't know how to help me. I even had a PhD in psy tell me that my IQ scores were higher than his own, he even searched my purse thinking i had 'cheat' notes LOL for the assessment exams. (i didn't obviously) It was at that point as I witnessed him have a tantrum that I as his patient scored better than him that I decided I've had enough of this illusion of 'help'.

No thanks and God is my counselor now.

 

[I'm exhausted]

I'd say live as me for even a day then come up with a realistic, usable solution, then I'll listen to your "oh you shouldn't kill yourself" speech. That is IF you can give it afterwards.

 

[ThingWithFeathers]

I appreciate the sentiment and gesture, but it would not be safe for me to interact with you beyond this screen. I have no idea who you are, and for all I know you could be a man that tries to take advantage of vulnerable women. There are all sorts of predators out there.

I am curious though, how exactly would you want to help people then?

You mentioned you 'dedicate many hours a week'... is this volunteer work for an agency? your own personal journey? part of your job? I would need to know more please.

If you just want to refer people to some agency that will give them counseling etc, I'm flat out not interested. I'm usually more intelligent than my own 'counselor', and have volunteered for a variety of agencies, and I know how they think and function. I've already tried those avenues of 'help'. They don't know how to help me. I even had a PhD in psy tell me that my IQ scores were higher than his own, he even searched my purse thinking i had 'cheat' notes LOL for the assessment exams. (i didn't obviously) It was at that point as I witnessed him have a tantrum that I as his patient scored better than him that I decided I've had enough of this illusion of 'help'.

No thanks and God is my counselor now.

No, I'm not a member of any organization, not affiliated to any ideology, nor do I provide any referral service and certainly not religious as previously mentioned. I just do it because it's a human thing to do. It's not like a specific task for me, not like a mission with an objective goal. There isn't a reason why not to be there for your fellow human being. Why not lend an ear? Maybe just a hug, even if virtual. If there is something more tangible that I can do for them I do that too, basically it can be anything that's possible and doable within my capacity. I don't have a magic wand to undo what's happened in people's lives nor a magic pill to ease their pain so there is no "exact" solution.

I do hear ya when you talked about not feeling safe interacting with someone irl. Fear comes first, trust and hope later, and that too maybe. And the same fear can plague the helpers too. What if they are being catfished? What if the suicidal they are empathisizing with is a manipulative homicidal? Fear knows no bounds. The nemesis of hope.

 

[malummo]

No, I'm not a member of any organization, not affiliated to any ideology, nor do I provide any referral service and certainly not religious as previously mentioned. I just do it because it's a human thing to do. It's not like a specific task for me, not like a mission with an objective goal. There isn't a reason why not to be there for your fellow human being. Why not lend an ear? Maybe just a hug, even if virtual. If there is something more tangible that I can do for them I do that too, basically it can be anything that's possible and doable within my capacity. I don't have a magic wand to undo what's happened in people's lives nor a magic pill to ease their pain so there is no "exact" solution.

I do hear ya when you talked about not feeling safe interacting with someone irl. Fear comes first, trust and hope later, and that too maybe. And the same fear can plague the helpers too. What if they are being catfished? What if the suicidal they are empathisizing with is a manipulative homicidal? Fear knows no bounds. The nemesis of hope.

this is the first time i have seen (or have not noticed before) a person who came to the forum, after an event that has shaked this community, and in a reasonable way wants to help the undecided because it sees hope for them. an exemplary person for pro-life oriented people who condemn and insult suicidal people.

 

[purplemoon]

No, I'm not a member of any organization, not affiliated to any ideology, nor do I provide any referral service and certainly not religious as previously mentioned. I just do it because it's a human thing to do. It's not like a specific task for me, not like a mission with an objective goal. There isn't a reason why not to be there for your fellow human being. Why not lend an ear? Maybe just a hug, even if virtual. If there is something more tangible that I can do for them I do that too, basically it can be anything that's possible and doable within my capacity. I don't have a magic wand to undo what's happened in people's lives nor a magic pill to ease their pain so there is no "exact" solution.

I do hear ya when you talked about not feeling safe interacting with someone irl. Fear comes first, trust and hope later, and that too maybe. And the same fear can plague the helpers too. What if they are being catfished? What if the suicidal they are empathisizing with is a manipulative homicidal? Fear knows no bounds. The nemesis of hope.

Well, I appreciate the offer, but I am not interested in any interactions beyond this website screen anyway. Besides, my mother told me yesterday how relieved she is that I live closer to her again and how devastated she was when I lived far away, so now I feel like I should try to wait to ctb. I don't want to ctb if that's going to be any devastation for her.

Also, it's not 'fear' but rather reality that people should be cautious about trusting a stranger. I mean, do you go around giving your car keys to strangers? It has nothing to do with hope or fear, just realizing that's the world we live in, plus trust has to be earned.

What I need is not something you can give me, but Thanks anyway.

 

[ThingWithFeathers]

Well, I appreciate the offer, but I am not interested in any interactions beyond this website screen anyway. Besides, my mother told me yesterday how relieved she is that I live closer to her again and how devastated she was when I lived far away, so now I feel like I should try to wait to ctb. I don't want to ctb if that's going to be any devastation for her.

Also, it's not 'fear' but rather reality that people should be cautious about trusting a stranger. I mean, do you go around giving your car keys to strangers? It has nothing to do with hope or fear, just realizing that's the world we live in, plus trust has to be earned.

What I need is not something you can give me, but Thanks anyway.

We might not give our car keys to strangers because of the fear of it getting stolen... the fear that arises from the mistrust of strangers. But we still hop on a cab with a stranger driver hoping/trusting that he isn't a serial killer. We still walk out of our house onto the sidewalk believing that it's safe to walk there and no drunk driver will climb the curb and run us over. Or when we buy grocery or even a burger from McDonald's we trust it isn't poison. Fear doesn't overcome us in any of these situations. See, our daily life is full of these little hopes and trusts. So why mistrust a person who doesn't know your name or city or number, who hasn't seen your face, who might be 1000s of miles away. How much harm can he do? After all, you are in full control of what you want to share. I'm not importuning you to disclose your identity or to even engage in private conversation with me. :-)

this is the first time i have seen (or have not noticed before) a person who came to the forum, after an event that has shaked this community, and in a reasonable way wants to help the undecided because it sees hope for them. an exemplary person for pro-life oriented people who condemn and insult suicidal people.

@malummo, I feel bashful that you would put me on pedestal. :-) You probably don't see people like me because most work behind the scenes. They are backward in coming forward because the majority in here don't have good image of anyone who may be even a whiff of a pro-lifer. Thanks.

 

[purplemoon]

I also noticed how the 'helper' person first said they were just an individual who wanted to help, but then later said/wrote they "work behind the scenes".... isn't that a contradiction?

I also pointed out how ridiculous and insulting it is for people with real trauma to be instantly classified as 'mentally ill', then that 'helper' person lists people who are suicidal as "the mentally ill"... Wow, so much for help that didn't even hear/read my whole point that most have just been exhausted by trauma.

Victims of crime, domestic assault/violence are not 'mentally ill', neither are people in physical pain.

One more reason not to respond to people who claim to want to help, then degrade people by labeling NORMAL human beings so they can feel a moment of self-proclaimed heroism?

Not helping us, just their own ego rife with delusions....

Just.like.I.already.said.