Discussion [ Carbon Monoxide ] Implications of an enclosed space, and how charcoal needs oxygen to keep burning

[softlyn]

Since charcoal needs oxygen to keep burning, I have to wonder if a significant factor in producing failure attempts is the tent or car being too enclosed, and not enough airflow is being produced compared to the rate in which it's being consumed. Perhaps the technique of sealing up the space to prevent CO from leaving is inadvertently also causing it to stop being produced.

Maybe it's best to leave a bit of airflow to prevent the coals from being extinguished? I'm sure there's also ways to improve a plan, like selecting larger lumps for a longer and steadier burn, and managing airflow and charcoal placement in the grill




Unrelated but FYI I think I'll go with briquettes for a cooler and steadier burn, despite having less carbon and producing more smoke. Not going to consider binchotan despite it's extremely long burn, lack of smoke, and high carbon content due to its very high burn temperature which I believe (from the AI overlords) leads to more complete combustion. Theoretically of course, who the fuck knows realistically

Linked a picture of a comparison of the burn time of different briquette brands. It looks like that poster was right about Royal Oak

 

[NegevChina]

If the coals are extinguished dew to lack of oxigen it still servs your goal of depriving your body from oxygen. Most of your blood will be combind with co but the rest wont get any oxygen since there is none. Thats like Inert gas asphyxiation. Any way if your car runs out of oxygen youre probably already so intoxicated your on the way to CTB anyway.

 

[softlyn]

sorry, made a mistake- in the comparison between Kingsford, B&B, and Royal Oak- B&B lasted the longest at 6 hours 20 min, while RO had 5 hours 44 minutes. ive also seen a lot of reviews saying RO has gone downhill recently and has trouble staying lit.

 

[softlyn]

Btw, it seems like theres a delicate balance. Too much airflow, and the coals will burn well but eventually stop producing CO due to sufficient oxygen. Too little, and CO will be produced but the fire will likely go out from insufficient oxygen. I have no idea personally what sort of gap in an enclosed space would be ideal for a given volume…

 

[77redbike]

Softlyn, you make a good point regarding sealing up your space and it appears no one seems to know the answer. I think some tests may be required to get the answer. Tests should be done to verify that a high CO level is reached, using a CO analyzer and those tests should let you know if the sealing enough, or too much. This is what I plan to do. On a related subject, I am trying to find out if CO inside the car will damage the electronics. A quick Google search says that it will damage certain things. It may take some time to run tests and I'd not like to damage my car doing them.

 

[Droso]

I don't know much about this method and I will not be using it to CTB. But I think your hypothesis could be correct and that there does need to be enough airflow to keep the coals burning for however long it takes to kill you. A carbon monoxide analyzer like redbike mentioned could be helpful, perhaps an oxygen one could too.

What could also help is talking to people who have had failed attempts via this method and ask how much they sealed their enclosure.

Of course without multiple experiments performed by different people it is hard to know how much airflow is truly needed. If someone has the resources, they could design an experiment using a control group where there is no sealing and other groups of various sealment. A carbon monoxide and oxygen gas analyzer would be needed. Observation is key to see how long the coals burn in each group. Now safely observing the coals? I am not sure how you could do that. I suppose you could get an oxygen tank and mask and sit in there, but that's just an assumption.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

It doesn't take that long to fill a small space with a lethal amount of CO. I think most of the cause of failure is not using enough charcoal and/or starting the charcoal in the space, which has a (basically) finite amount of oxygen for the charcoal to utilize to get burning correctly. Starts the coals outside the space and let them burn until red-hot. Then move the pans, buckets, containers, etc into the space. Now give the CO time to build-up in the space before getting in. Yes, it may be difficult to move the extremely hot containers into the space. Idk, use tongs or something on pails with handles and maybe some insulated gloves made for heat resistance. From everything I've read, 15 to 20 minutes time for burning red-hot charcoals in the space should be adequate to reach highly lethal levels of CO.

And also from the reading I've done, lump charcoal seems to be the recommended type.

I'm lucky in that I was able to afford to purchase a CO analyzer capable of measuring up to 10000 ppm. I know that not everyone is able to do that. I, also, know that I won't be entering my tent unless the analyzer is topped-out.

 

[snooker1]

Does anyone have a link to the thread please where there's a guide about what to do with this method. I read it before but I can't find it. It was where a previous member had successfully gone through with it. Please and thanks.