Can we please do something about incels?

[DreamEnd]

Made what up? Did you deliberately fail to understand? The group you are dividing into two is one. "These people" is the entire manosphere from the self-justifying criminal to the youtuber distributing the philosophy to justify it.

No I didn't but you did when you responded to me with a straw man about supposedly the evil incels taking people into the manosphete from suicide forum. Great conspiracy theory tho 8/10

 

[EvisceratedJester]

Oh and by the way everybody, the Incel we have discussed here, and on Halleycommet's thread, who said he wanted and does rape women, is actually not banned and totally active lmao.

Thanks, mods; but the rest of us, as meteora said, are threatened to be banned by making perfectly reasonable objections to what these people post

Are you talking about that gross dude who talks about getting women drunk in order to have sex with them? That dude was fucking vile.

 

[Jorms_McGander]

No I didn't but you did when you responded to me with a straw man about supposedly the evil uncles taking people into the manosphete from suicide forum. Great conspiracy theory tho 8/10

I did what lol. I am treating the manosphere as one, because that's how it is. Birds of a feather flock together, and many many many more idioms like that exist for a reason.

Anyway lol stop accusing me of shit that I don't even know what you're talking about? Tell me exactly what I've done lol. You told me you were only talking about users who harassed others on this site. I told you that those users are part of the same group; the manosphere. They feel entitled to act because of other elements here supporting that. It's not rocket appliances.

 

[ForsakenDial]

Hmm, that's entirely understandable. Continue on with your bad self, perhaps we'll bump into each other again :)

You were incapable of making a coherent thought in the last thread you decided to embarrass yourself in. Everyone else in this thread is at least arguing something and not lying about everything like you do.

Even if anyone broke down all the nonsensical incoherent gibberish you written you'll just ask them: "Define feminism" and ask if they ran into a burning build to save several women. Or throw in a false allegation.

You have a bad habit of lying about your accomplishments and taking data out of context. You gave yourself that reputation and no one who knows better will take you seriously.

Are you talking about that gross dude who talks about getting women drunk in order to have sex with them? That dude was fucking vile.

Yes. Valso was banned thankfully.

If you put your ideas behind an impractically massive wall of text, you will find far fewer opponents willing to engage and society will seem a lot more amenable than it actually is.

He does this on purpose. When you look at what he says in these text its a whole lot of nothing or misrepresenting data. This is far from the first time.

 

[Jorms_McGander]

I think it's a tell that I've been accused of holding conspiracy theories by a manosphere supporter lol. People tell you more than they want to every time they speak.

 

[DreamEnd]

I think it's a tell that I've been accused of holding conspiracy theories by a manosphere supporter lol. People tell you more than they want to every time they speak.

Nah man but nice of you to conveniently put me in a Manosphere box. And yes; you created a conspiracy theory about the manosphere taking people away from the suicide forum into their circles which doesn't happen. What's next? The evil incels getting together to take the west?

 

[Jorms_McGander]

Nah man but nice of you to conveniently put me in a Manosphere box. And yes; you created a conspiracy theory about the manosphere taking people away from the suicide forum into their circles which doesn't happen. What's next? The evil incels getting together to take the west?

Wdym "it doesn't happen"? I'm describing a well-known social phenomenon. I don't think I need to bring you a source for the idea that people influence eachother based on proximity.

You're arguing in defense of the manosphere, and I'm not into devils' advocates on a subject like this so either act right or I'm not sure I'm wrong.

edit: I suppose it's time to add a caveat that mens' rights are human rights and there are areas in which society lets men down that do need to be addressed. Taking issue with the manosphere is not the same as invalidating mens' struggles. I am a man. I am familiar with the male experience.

 

[FadingDawn]

Are you talking about that gross dude who talks about getting women drunk in order to have sex with them? That dude was fucking vile.

Yeah, that guy; but according to one of the previous posters, he doesn't consider saying you should get women drunk to assault them as "misogynistic"

 

[SexyIncél]

If you put your ideas behind an impractically massive wall of text, you will find far fewer opponents willing to engage and society will seem a lot more amenable than it actually is.

Haha, well I DID advise people to skim/ignore my l'il essay. :P I only expect maybe one person to read it

But I'd LOVE a real opponent. So far, mostly I see the usual bunch of stalkers, rapists & angry online slacktivist do-nothings. Some of whom apparently care more about me than I care about them. Some may make fun of incels, but guess what — society imagines us just as pathetic murderous losers too

But despite this long thread, this suicide by time-papercuts, I find it comfortable here because at least the weirdness is out in the open. Like, we don't even try to hide it

 

[FadingDawn]

Yes. Valso was banned thankfully.

I don't think he is actually; didn't he just post something recently?

 

[DreamEnd]

Wdym "it doesn't happen"? I'm describing a well-known social phenomenon. I don't think I need to bring you a source for the idea that people influence eachother based on proximity.

You're arguing in defense of the manosphere, and I'm not into devils' advocates on a subject like this so either act right or I'm not sure I'm wrong.

edit: I suppose it's time to add a caveat that mens' rights are human rights and there are areas in which society lets men down that do need to be addressed. Taking issue with the manosphere is not the same as invalidating mens' struggles. I am a man. I am familiar with the male experience.

I'm not defending the manosphere. I simply don't understand your claim that they are somehow tied to suicidal people and that they somehow serve as a recruiting place for suicidal men. The people who seek manoaphere aren't your usual depressed folks, they are usually resentful and hateful men who want someone to blame for their lack of success with women.

 

[FadingDawn]

Haha, well I DID advise people to skim/ignore my l'il essay. :P I only expect maybe one person to read it

But I'd LOVE a real opponent. So far, mostly I see the usual bunch of stalkers, rapists & angry online slacktivist do-nothings. Who apparently care more about me than I care about them. Some may make fun of incels, but guess what — society imagines us just as pathetic murderous losers too

But despite this long thread, this suicide by time-papercuts, I find it comfortable here because at least the weirdness is out in the open. Like, we don't even try to hide it

Literally identifying as an incel seems you're misognynistic and most likely support rapists, and mass-murders; cloaking in more acceptable language doesn't help your case. Neither does saying it's not "misogyny" akthually, it's only hard, flinty realism about "women in society" lmao

 

[Jorms_McGander]

I'm not defending the manosphere. I simply don't understand your claim that they are somehow tied to suicidal people and that they somehow serve as a recruiting place for suicidal men. The people who seek manoaphere aren't your usual depressed folks, they are usually resentful and hateful men who want someone to blame for their lack of success with women.

I don't see the division you make between depressed people and socially ostracised people. The whole panoply of results occurs. The human race is very complicated psychologically, so you'll get some people who are just sad about being rejected, you'll get some who are angry, some who are both [probably almost all would be both]. I see a lot more connections between people, I guess. That's alright.

I think we've reached a natural conclusion here, because I'm not sure how we'll proceed from a place where we seem to disagree on how strongly people influence each other. If you have the data I'm down to read it but I'm pretty sure neither of us has the academic licenses and skills necessary to gather and evaluate it so we just kinda have to let it be undefined at this point

 

[ForsakenDial]

I don't think he is actually; didn't he just post something recently?

This was his last post.

I'm not the one buying the alcohol, they're buying it themselves. I'm just taking advantage of the situation. But I guess your snowflake generation can't understand that.

It was in reply to being called a rapist. The mods did ban him.

 

[FadingDawn]

This was his last post.

It was in reply to being called a rapist. The mods did ban him.

well, at any rate, the others haven't been banned; and they are not being properly controlled in a public space.

 

[Apathy79]

Fwiw, this is the ChatGPT definition of "manosphere":

The term "manosphere" is more of a label used to describe a loosely connected collection of websites, blogs, and forums that focus on issues and perspectives relating to men's interests and experiences. It's not a single, cohesive group but rather a broad spectrum of communities with varying focuses and ideologies. These range from dating advice and personal development to more controversial areas involving anti-feminism and men's rights advocacy. The manosphere encompasses a wide range of voices and perspectives, and its constituents often have significant differences in their views and approaches to gender relations.

Like most other things discussed here, it's an extremely loose categorisation with no real common much less uniform ideas amongst it. Term designed to link a few things to make attacking them in broad strokes simpler, when in reality it's entirely straw man. It's also only extremely loosely connected to other things discussed here, like incels, which themselves are widely divergent on their views about women and society, as we've seen in this thread.

The target you're after is a handful of individuals. Not these massive broad groups where only a minority fit the categorisation you're trying to plant on all of them.

 

[DreamEnd]

I don't see the division you make between depressed people and socially ostracised people. The whole panoply of results occurs. The human race is very complicated psychologically, so you'll get some people who are just sad about being rejected, you'll get some who are angry, some who are both [probably almost all would be both]. I see a lot more connections between people, I guess. That's alright.

I think we've reached a natural conclusion here, because I'm not sure how we'll proceed from a place where we seem to disagree on how strongly people influence each other. If you have the data I'm down to read it but I'm pretty sure neither of us has the academic licenses and skills necessary to gather and evaluate it so we just kinda have to let it be undefined at this point

Keep in mind also that the manosphere does often include men's rights activists and they don't necessarily have to be misogynistic

 

[FadingDawn]

Fwiw, this is the ChatGPT definition of "manosphere":

The term "manosphere" is more of a label used to describe a loosely connected collection of websites, blogs, and forums that focus on issues and perspectives relating to men's interests and experiences. It's not a single, cohesive group but rather a broad spectrum of communities with varying focuses and ideologies. These range from dating advice and personal development to more controversial areas involving anti-feminism and men's rights advocacy. The manosphere encompasses a wide range of voices and perspectives, and its constituents often have significant differences in their views and approaches to gender relations.

Like most other things discussed here, it's an extremely loose categorisation with no real common much less uniform ideas amongst it. Term designed to link a few things to make attacking them in broad strokes simpler, when in reality it's entirely straw man. It's also only extremely loosely connected to other things discussed here, like incels, which themselves are widely divergent on their views about women and society, as we've seen in this thread.

The target you're after is a handful of individuals. Not these massive broad groups where only a minority fit the categorisation you're trying to plant on all of them.

I'm glad CharGPT is having this conversation for us. Nothing in that at any rate contradicts any notion of the "manosphere" included here, in all these discussions; and unless you're active or acutely aware of these people across the internet, their attitudes and talking points, etc, idk why'd you bother with chatpGPT definitions in other conversations tbqh. But anyway....

Keep in mind also that the manosphere does often include men's rights activists and they don't necessarily have to be misogynistic

"Men's right advocates"; yeah, like MRA's aren't famous for saying they just want to deal with men's issues, but then spout manosphere, incel/redpill talking points lol.
FYI, because you're not aware of these issues at all: the manosphere is indeed a derogatory term by this point -- and rightfully so; and these people certainly have made it become so, because of their opinions, etc.

 

[Jorms_McGander]

whom apparently care more about me than I care about them.

That's literally saying that you're inconsiderate of others haha. I mean it's fine; we all have different capacities and all humans are necessary for the human race to exist as it is.

But that's what that is... consideration for others is caring about them and their feelings, if you're noticing that others care about you more than you care about them perhaps they feel you've been inconsiderate and they are responding to a natural emotional response to having their internal experience invalidated like that.

Because if you're not considering another person's internal experience, that means it does not factor into your evaluations of how to behave in society and therefore you are sending the message that it is invalid input. It's invalidating to the other person.

Unfortunately, I'm not really the guy for these discussions of overarching social structures and propensities. I consider that "okay", like it's there the same way that background radiation exists behind everything else in the universe. But I find it more interesting to orbit amongst smaller entities. Individuals, and how we interact with eachother.

My own desire to describe simple human behaviour to the individuals exhibiting the behaviour lol...

Keep in mind also that the manosphere does often include men's rights activists and they don't necessarily have to be misogynistic

This is true; I am activist for nothing. Mens rights are human rights, and egalitarian feminism is actually pretty happy to examine how to make life better for men and consider the negative impacts our society has on men.

Another term for the whole body of work is "gender studies", which I think is better. But we seem to be needing a sex-neutral term for individual people to identify with as being a part of. Because representation matters.

 

[DreamEnd]

Ну

I'm glad CharGPT is having this conversation for us. Nothing in that at any rate contradicts any notion of the "manosphere" included here, in all these discussions; and unless you're active or acutely aware of these people across the internet, their attitudes and talking points, etc, idk why'd you bother with chatpGPT definitions in other conversations tbqh. But anyway....

"Men's right advocates"; yeah, like MRA's aren't famous for saying they just want to deal with men's issues, but then spout manosphere, incel/redpill talking points lol.

Factually wrong

FYI, because you're not aware of these issues at all: the manosphere is indeed a derogatory term by this point -- and rightfully so; and these people certainly have made it become so, because of their opinions, etc.

It includes men's rights. So unless you find men's rights derogatory idk what to tell you

 

[FadingDawn]

That's literally saying that you're inconsiderate of others haha. I mean it's fine; we all have different capacities and all humans are necessary for the human race to exist as it is.

But that's what that is... consideration for others is caring about them and their feelings, if you're noticing that others care about you more than you care about them perhaps they feel you've been inconsiderate and they are responding to a natural emotional response to having their internal experience invalidated like that.

Because if you're not considering another person's internal experience, that means it does not factor into your evaluations of how to behave in society and therefore you are sending the message that it is invalid input. It's invalidating to the other person.

Unfortunately, I'm not really the guy for these discussions of overarching social structures and propensities. I consider that "okay", like it's there the same way that background radiation exists behind everything else in the universe. But I find it more interesting to orbit amongst smaller entities. Individuals, and how we interact with eachother.

My own desire to describe simple human behaviour to the individuals exhibiting the behaviour lol...

This is true; I am activist for nothing. Mens rights are human rights, and egalitarian feminism is actually pretty happy to examine how to make life better for men and consider the negative impacts our society has on men.

Another term for the whole body of work is "gender studies", which I think is better. But we seem to be needing a sex-neutral term for individual people to identify with as being a part of. Because representation matters.

Men's rights are of course important; there was rarely a serious debate on that. MOst MRAs are no more stupid than "BLUE LIVES MATTER! My father was a cop, and got killed because of a black person; how come i cant come here, and spit the truth about these issues i know so much about; how dare people deny cop deaths mattering on SaSu."

 

[Jorms_McGander]

Fwiw, this is the ChatGPT definition of "manosphere":

The term "manosphere" is more of a label used to describe a loosely connected collection of websites, blogs, and forums that focus on issues and perspectives relating to men's interests and experiences. It's not a single, cohesive group but rather a broad spectrum of communities with varying focuses and ideologies. These range from dating advice and personal development to more controversial areas involving anti-feminism and men's rights advocacy. The manosphere encompasses a wide range of voices and perspectives, and its constituents often have significant differences in their views and approaches to gender relations.

Like most other things discussed here, it's an extremely loose categorisation with no real common much less uniform ideas amongst it. Term designed to link a few things to make attacking them in broad strokes simpler, when in reality it's entirely straw man. It's also only extremely loosely connected to other things discussed here, like incels, which themselves are widely divergent on their views about women and society, as we've seen in this thread.

The target you're after is a handful of individuals. Not these massive broad groups where only a minority fit the categorisation you're trying to plant on all of them.

Thanks, it's worth a lot. I was running on a subconsciously-gleaned definition.

 

[FadingDawn]

Ну

Factually wrong

It includes men's rights. So unless you find men's rights derogatory idk what to tell you

OH if they say they simply involve men's right, then all good. And china is a democracy too btw.

Imagine just coming into a conversation on a topic about a group of people you know nothing about, not understand the subtilties and nuances of the term you're employing, as opposed to the people who have been in this space of discourses a long time, then simply asking a robot to define it for you and going like "well seems they support some people's right so it's gotta be cool and okay to have here and all"

 

[Jorms_McGander]

It includes men's rights. So unless you find men's rights derogatory idk what to tell you

Nobody here is in charge of the full connotations behind any term. As I mentioned I picked up the definition contextually and I thought it was not viewed in a positive light. It's a consensus formed by society... so it may be prudent to flow with that. There is a definition above ^

 

[SexyIncél]

That's literally saying that you're inconsiderate of others haha. I mean it's fine; we all have different capacities and all humans are necessary for the human race to exist as it is.

But that's what that is... consideration for others is caring about them and their feelings, if you're noticing that others care about you more than you care about them perhaps they feel you've been inconsiderate and they are responding to a natural emotional response to having their internal experience invalidated like that.

Because if you're not considering another person's internal experience, that means it does not factor into your evaluations of how to behave in society and therefore you are sending the message that it is invalid input. It's invalidating to the other person.

Unfortunately, I'm not really the guy for these discussions of overarching social structures and propensities. I consider that "okay", like it's there the same way that background radiation exists behind everything else in the universe. But I find it more interesting to orbit amongst smaller entities. Individuals, and how we interact with eachother.

My own desire to describe simple human behaviour to the individuals exhibiting the behaviour lol...

No, you're right. I'm being very dismissive. A lot of these people are people going through pain, and maybe can't think straight. And apparently I trigger that, and you're right to point it out

I consider that "okay", like it's there the same way that background radiation exists behind everything else in the universe. But I find it more interesting to orbit amongst smaller entities. Individuals, and how we interact with eachother.

Beautiful way to put it. I don't fully understand yet; maybe I'll think about it when I next go for a walk

 

[Ashu]

It genuinely confuses me why and how men think about sex so much

Physiology, hormones, the male body. Everything human comes down to matter. Nothing is chosen.

 

[FadingDawn]

Here's only a very fragmentary selection of people who objected to that post about "modern women not wanting to date men", or whatever;

Unless, anyone else here who has never heard of incel communities, "blackpill" rhetoric and so on wants to ask chatgpt to give wikipedia-level definitions of things they never heard, divorced from context, and thinks that can properly be used in a conversation like this, I don't think there's much more here to say

 

[DreamEnd]

OH if they say they simply involve men's right, then all good. And china is a democracy too btw.

Imagine just coming into a conversation on a topic about a group of people you know nothing about, not understand the subtilties and nuances of the term you're employing, as opposed to the people who have been in this space of discourses a long time, then simply asking a robot to define it for you and going like "well seems they support some people's right so it's gotta be cool and okay to have here and all"

Holy shit projection couldn't get any worse. Wow. Ok mrs expert on this topic.

So, yeah, just to be clear: the left, or the cultural-neomarxists or "the jews", or whoever -- they just simply hate men, hate masculinity, just want forceful castration, etc.

/s

Nobody brought up the left or cultural Marxists lmao

but im pretty sure some people on this thread literally just think the above joke statement to be accurate lol

Ok?

 

[FadingDawn]

Holy shit projection couldn't get any worse. Wow. Ok mrs expert on this topic.

Nobody brought up the left or cultural Marxists lmao

my dude, literally the every single person here who brought up hypergamy, in the past few days on those threads you didn't read, or brought up the dating market, women gatekeeping sex, etc, 100% believes that the west declines because "Cultural Marxist" or "feminists" or whoever



And yeah your argument basically is "I asked chatgpt what these big scary terms are, because I'm clueless, and it told me that the manosphere is just a broad vague and that it advocates for men's right — which sounds good I guess". Literally, what other engagement or argument have you here


Also I never even initially brought up the manosphere; only the incels and blackpillers , which are closely assosciated. The other stuff is your own imaginings

 

[Ambivalent1]

"Access to sex" lmfao; do you even listen to yoruself?

What about that is difficult for you to understand? Men want sex. It's human instinct. If they are unable to get it,they become bitter. The fact that this surprises you reveals that you're not too bright, which is already evident given your "lmfao" and the question you posed deflecting from the fact that you have no good response to my question. Are you a child?