Discussion Can I Still Go to Heaven?

[lost guy]

Hi, all.

Without bringing up a deep religious conversation, can I still go to heaven if i
I take actions in my own hands to CTB?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

The Bible doesn't say. Not sure about the Quran or the Hebrew bible.

Sorry you're stressing about it.

Beating others to the punch: this is already hell.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Hi, all.

Without bringing up a deep religious conversation, can I still go to heaven if i
I take actions in my own hands to CTB?

I'm not sure how anyone can answer that without getting into deep religion/theology.
I also don't think anyone can possibly answer such a question with any level of certainty.
What happens after death is a mystery for everyone.
I guess it could be answered from the point of view of specific religions like christianity or islam.

 

[Meditation guide]

Without bringing up a deep religious conversation, can I still go to heaven if i
I take actions in my own hands to CTB?

You would need to take a survey of deaders and they are notoriously silent on this.

 

[leiche]

you don't deserve to go to hell after living such a bad and stressful life. that's my own position and i'm not scared of ctbing, in heaven i will finally find peace

 

[Brink]

I believe that if a God is going to punish me for ending my pain on my terms, full of regret and sorrow about how things have gone and being a conscious person that cares about people and the state of the world, despite my mistakes, then God's heaven isn't a place that is full of love and is instead a facade for the abuse below.

Eternal punishment and torture for catching the bus, usually as a reaction to pain and despair? That sounds like the work of evil and not a benevolent force.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

If God exists, then he knows exactly what's going to have to happen to make me not CTB. I'll give him a chance to work a miracle and turn things around for me but if these demands are not met by the explicit deadline then neither he nor anybody else deserves to put me through an existence that barely feels that much worse than how I already feel now.

 

[_Minsk]

just look into near death reports, there is no hell, just pure bliss. who knows if life will continue after this bliss. the church invented hell to stop people from committing suicide due to their sickly high taxation..

 

[Captive of Mind]

The Bible doesn't say. Not sure about the Quran or the Hebrew bible.

Sorry you're stressing about it.

Beating others to the punch: this is already hell.

You always speak so much truth, I love reading your posts.

Hi, all.

Without bringing up a deep religious conversation, can I still go to heaven if i
I take actions in my own hands to CTB?

If God exists, I don't believe he would create you knowing that you would go through all of this and then punish you forever in hell for whatever arbitrary reason he decides.

Plus, GoodPersonEffed is right, I believe that the hell written about in ancient texts was referring to what some people's reality already is on earth.

Edit: There are only a few examples of suicide in the Bible and they were either condoned by God or it was ambivalent about them. One of them being Jesus Christ's assisted suicide.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Actually, I was in a sarcastic mood when I said I was beating others to the punch about hell, it was more about the fact that on every thread like this, several people will say earth or this life is hell.

 

[Stavrogin]

Hi, all.

Without bringing up a deep religious conversation, can I still go to heaven if i
I take actions in my own hands to CTB?

Not if certain religious doctrines and dogmas are found to be true.

 

[mathieu]

I don't believe a benevelent god would punish desperate people for taking their own lives.

 

[Wayfaerer]

No, but on the bright side you won't be going to hell either.

 

[Captive of Mind]

Actually, I was in a sarcastic mood when I said I was beating others to the punch about hell, it was more about the fact that on every thread like this, several people will say earth or this life is hell.

Ohh, lol! That makes sense. Do you believe hell is a real place? If not, what do you think those ancient texts were talking about?

 

[esse_est_percipi]

I don't believe a benevelent god would punish desperate people for taking their own lives.

I don't believe a benevolent god would create the conditions where people become so desperate that they take their own lives.
The fact that life is as it is on earth shows that a benevolent god is very unlikely.
That's how I see it anyway

There are only a few examples of suicide in the Bible and they were either condoned by God or it was ambivalent about them. One of them being Jesus Christ's assisted suicide.

Yes exactly. All the dogma and condemnation around suicide is a later invention of the church and has nothing to do with original christianity or the bible.
E.g Judas committed suicide but there is nothing at all in the new testament about him going to hell or being punished by god for it.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Ohh, lol! That makes sense. Do you believe hell is a real place? If not, what do you think those ancient texts were talking about?

I haven't researched this, but my understanding is that Sheol or Hades did not equate the fire and brimstone hell invented by the Catholics.

I don't think heaven or hell are real places. I think humans in various cultures have imagined such places since humans.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

that Sheol or Hades did not equate the fire and brimstone hell invented by the Catholics.

Yes these are very different.
Sheol or hades didn't have the concept of eternity tied to.them either. They were temporary shadowy abodes, not places of everlasting torment as with the hell of later christianity or islam.

 

[Stavrogin]

Yes these are very different.
Sheol or hades didn't have the concept of eternity tied to.them either. They were temporary shadowy abodes, not places of everlasting torment as with the hell of later christianity or islam.

The age of a thing doesn't imply the truth of a thing.

 

[Brick In The Wall]

I would suggest reading through CTB related NDEs and OBEs. As they're probably the closest testimonials you'll get on this subject.

The link I've provided is the largest source on the internet. I've read every single CTB related story they have and I'd say only 10% or less were "hellish."

NDERF Home Page

Near Death Experience Research Foundation the largest collection of Near Death Experiences (NDE) in over 23 Languages. With thousands of full-text near death experiences posted. Share your near death experience, research, spiritually transforming events, consciousness studies, extensive...

www.nderf.org

 

[Linda]

Hi, all.

Without bringing up a deep religious conversation, can I still go to heaven if i
I take actions in my own hands to CTB?

No, since heaven does not exist. And you can't go to hell either, for the same reason. If you ctb you will simply cease to exist. There won't be any "you" to go anywhere.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

The age of a thing doesn't imply the truth of a thing.

What are you referring to exactly?
Could you be a bit more specific
I

No, since heaven does not exist. And you can't go to hell either, for the same reason. If you ctb you will simply cease to exist. There won't be any "you" to go anywhere.

It would be more accurate to qualify all this with the language of uncertainty. No one knows what happens after death or what the true nature of reality is/what consciousness is, etc.

 

[Stavrogin]

What are you referring to exactly?
Could you be a bit more specific

Old ideas are killed by new ideas, and their rubble is used to construct the new monuments or idols.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

The age of a thing doesn't imply the truth of a thing.

It's cultural as well. Egyptians believed in a different hell and heaven and how to qualify, as did the Greeks and Romans, Mayans, Aztecs, Native Americans, etc.

The Catholic concept of heaven and hell and how to qualify are part of the Western cultural imagination in spite of personal beliefs, including agnosticism and atheism.

Perhaps both are ways that humans keep themselves morally in check, with the punishments and rewards of transcendental parental authority figures. I've come across such theories when I was doing personal research on the evolutionary value of believing in gods that have never been proven to exist.

 

[Stavrogin]

It's cultural as well. Egyptians believed in a diffey hell and heaven and how to qualify, as did the Greeks and Romans.

The Catholic concept of heaven and hell and how to qualify are part of the Western cultural imagination in spite of beliefs.

Perhaps both are ways that humans keep themselves morally in check, with the punishments and rewards of transcendental parental authority figures. I've come across such theories when I was doing personal research on the evolutionary value of believing in gods that have never been proven to exist.

Perhaps.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Old ideas are killed by new ideas, and their rubble is used to construct the new monuments or idols.

Vivid metaphor.
I think I understand what you're getting at, because I was talking about hades and later christianity etc.

But I wasn't implying that hades was a better or more accurate concept than the later ideas of everlasting hell. I was just contrasting them.

I also that the 'old ideas killed by new ideas' idea isn't necessarily true. Look a buddhism, that came 500 years before Christianity and 1100 years before islam, yet it is still flourishing and has arguably a better and more accurate account (more in line with modern neuroscience) of human psychology, perception, the self etc than those later religions.

 

[Soul]

@lost guy, as far as I'm concerned suicide won't have any effect at all on whether or not you go to heaven.

 

[Stavrogin]

Vivid metaphor.
I think I understand what you're getting at, because I was talking about hades and later christianity etc.

But I wasn't implying that hades was a better or more accurate concept than the later ideas of everlasting hell. I was just contrasting them.

I also that the 'old ideas killed by new ideas' idea isn't necessarily true. Look a buddhism, that came 500 years before Christianity and 1100 years before islam, yet it is still flourishing and has arguably a better and more accurate account (more in line with modern neuroscience) of human psychology, perception, the self etc than those later religions.

Buddhism is young my friend, and their is still time. There is also an evolution of Buddhism that is occurring due to the Western perversion and fetishisation of it.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

Buddhism is young my friend, and their is still time. There is also an evolution of Buddhism that is occurring due to the Western perversion and fetishisation of it.

What do you mean 'Buddhism is young'? It dates from 500 years BC and is older than christianity and islam.
I do agree with the fact that it has been fetishized and distorted by western culture.

But maybe I have misunderstood the whole thrust of your points in general.
I'll bow out now

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

There is also an evolution of Buddhism that is occurring due to the Western perversion and fetishisation of it.

I suggest that perversion stems in great part from a prior perversion of the introduction of Mahayana Buddhism, which rewrote the dhamma and and included other beliefs from Hinduism and tantra.

Also, Westerners didn't pervert Buddhism, but Buddhists who brought it to the West. There may be other examples, but I'm specifically referring to Chogyam Trungpa, founder of Shambala Buddhism and Naropa University.

Edit: I will allow that Westerners may have played a role. I personally think there was social engineering at play in the introduction, same with the introduction of Hinduism with Swami Vivekananda and the second wave with the Beatles' guru. Much of this began, at least out in the open, with Theosophy, which was also active in England.

Hope OP is okay with this derailing. Every thread like this seems to derail in such a fashion. One reason why I threw in that beating to the punch.

 

[Stavrogin]

What do you mean 'Buddhism is young'? It dates from 500 years BC and is older than christianity and islam.
I do agree with the fact that it has been fetishized and distorted by western culture.

But maybe I have misunderstood the whole thrust of your points in general.
I'll bow out now

I bow out with you - it is all poetry.