Help Can I get social friends by joining a cult (e.g. Jehovah's Witnesses)?

[Adûnâi]

Not a joke question. I'm Ukrainian, have never talked to a single human being aside from my mom for 27 years, certified high-functioning Asperger. I have zero concept of a social circle. Could I solve it by joining a local cult? I've seen Jehovah's Witnesses propagate in my town, could they be of any help? (After all, they're supposed to prey on the weak and vulnerable, haha.)

I've talked to them today, two elderly ladies, but they were so lukewarm, that we just stayed silent... greatly confusing me, as I prepared to be defensive against their incessant sales pitches. It was a cool experience - while I can talk in class, talking to a complete stranger put me in utter stupor, especially as my brain was racking through the questions which would have damaged the conversation (such as "Are you getting paid to spread propaganda leaflets?").

 

[UtopianSoliloquies]

I have no personal experience with cults but I would highly advise against trying. Especially with Jehovah's Witnesses--they're labelled as cults for a reason. Their propensity for shunning and stigmatization of mental health would probably hurt you a lot more than their superficial friendliness would help. I suppose you would have "friends" for a while but I doubt they would be genuine at all, most of them will value the leadership far more than they value you as a person. Just don't do it.

 

[Professor K]

Take this with a grain of salt since I myself used to be comepletely isolated for years and still have a hard time connecting with people.

Honestly be careful about religious cults like Jehowah's Witnesses or political groups, you never know where they could lead you if they take advantage of your despair and vulnerability due to your lack of experiences. Stay mindful, do some reasearches about what they do to see if that's a lifestyle you'd enjoy and yes, talk to them, ask them questions.

Go for something simple and safe, an activity you're already familiar with.

If you are interested in religion then that could be a great experience. If not, then there are plenty of clubs, communities and associations you can find about anything (sport, music, chess, astronomy...). Pick something which matches your interests that way it is far easier to connect with other people.

Going into something completely new will be very akward and disorienting for a first time.

It's all up to you. Explore anything you can because you'll always learn from those experiences, good or bad, and improve on your social skills. It's always better than nothing. I wish you the best.

 

[AllCatsAreGrey]

Hi OP. I'm also on the autism spectrum. I joined a cult when I was younger (and stayed for 10 years). I really appreciated the structure and the friendships. That said, I would sternly warn against it. It's been well over a decade since I left and I'm still dealing with the religious trauma. Looking back I can see how I was taken advantage of and manipulated. I don't think it's worth it. If the goal is forming social connections, I think there are less dangerous groups to consider.

When you're looking into groups, consider the BITE model to understand the common elements of coercion. More info on the BITE model here.

 

[cultpup]

i really relate to this. i'm on the fence about rejoining cults myself. i know how appealing cults can be when you're alone.

i can tell you that cult social isolation is worse than normal isolation. cults, once they have you, force you to depend on them for as much as possible, most especially the social aspect. It can be fulfilling for flutters of moments when they lovebomb you, especially when you first join and they try to keep you, but as a cultist you are made to be emotionally dependent on your peers (and/or leader if applicable) and it is socially stunting. it's made to be. in the moments that they are not showering you with love and approval, you will be clawing for it. i am also autistic and even within cults i felt just as much outcast, it is a social game to get what you want out of it. how best to please your peers and those above you, or how to climb the ladder so you'll be given unconditional respect.

your social growth will not be natural, and will hinge on your participation (and sometimes strictly your success) within the cult. and if at any point you feel or think or say that you're done or want change, they will do everything in their power to keep you or shame you for even thinking about leaving. being at all unhappy while in a cult is most often seen as weakness or betrayal by the group. your personal emotions will be restricted and tailored to what they want of you. they intend to break you then build you up into something more preferable to them as to further their goals. sometimes it's slow, sometimes it's quick. it's a gamble of whether or not you'll notice it. but by the time you do notice, it is far too often far too late.

at times, it is completely and absolutely intended to purposefully hurt you, often as a method of getting you to submit in some way. when done "correctly", they will make it feel like it is entirely your fault, and that this could have been prevented if you had stayed in line or done it right the first time. you will be gaslit and groomed as often as possible. and once you do it right, you will be showered with love and approval that is intended to have you forget you were hurt in the first place.

yes, you may meet people, but the mental torture you will be subject to, then be trapped in thereafter i personally don't believe is worth it. at least for me. it is agony to be brought into a world of love and pleasure and to be needed and wanted, only to have parts of myself stripped away layer by layer to turn me into something else as time passes. even saying it sounds so wonderful to me, trading pain for pleasure, but i know in my stomach that it's truly hell in the end.

plus, the friends don't feel real. they're cultists too. you're all made to trap each other, not be truly human. if you leave, they will not follow. you will be alone again. they cut off "outsiders" and discourage you from speaking to non-cultists, so it is very unlikely that you'll have friendships on the outside. if i remember correctly, jehovas witnesses also explicitly discourage relationships with nonmembers of any sort, including family. and if you speak to an ex-cultist, you can be instantly banished from the cult.

because of the cults i was in i am socially stunted and struggle more than ever before with connecting with people. i have little understanding of the world outside of what they taught me. they were not a place to learn and grow, simply a place to be controlled and follow what i'm told. the brainwashing makes it seriously difficult to see the world the way that others do, or at the very least see reason in what they see. autism aside my world view is completely screwed now, there is no sense to be had for me anymore. even if outsiders are truly the correct ones, cult brainwashing to this day convinces me that the cult is still right and i should go back, "maybe i can do it different this time and they'll love me again" sort of thing. i desperately want to be loved and accepted, and as they say, they are the only ones who will truly love me. so i really struggle every single day to not crawl back to them. it is an emotional trap.

i very regularly consider searching for or joining cults again, or even making one of my own, but i honestly think it's easy to forget that you can be in a community without sacrificing your soul. getting into a cult is about the same as getting into any other club or group, the difference is the cult is made to eat you alive. if you have any other communities of any sort around you or online, i very very much recommend giving those a go before intentionally joining a cult of any sort. even if it's joining a different religion.

once you join a cult it is extremely difficult to escape it, assuming you've identified it as a cult at all. even if you escape it physically, the mental impact is truly significant and brainwashing is no joke. you will not come out of a cult unscathed. be aware that it is damaging. that's why it's called a cult and not a community.

in summary, the cult may give you the attention and structure you are looking for, but it's important to be aware that cults are not at all harmless and you should never mistake one as such. they are inherently harmful in the long run. cults are about exerting undue contraol over others in an organized fashion. there is very little about it that is not abuse.

regardless, if you're okay with all of this or it sounds genuinely appealing, by all means do what you feel is best. i really hope you find the community you're looking for. ( sorry for the longass post :') )

I have no personal experience with cults but I would highly advise against trying. Especially with Jehovah's Witnesses--they're labelled as cults for a reason. Their propensity for shunning and stigmatization of mental health would probably hurt you a lot more than their superficial friendliness would help. I suppose you would have "friends" for a while but I doubt they would be genuine at all, most of them will value the leadership far more than they value you as a person. Just don't do it.

this exactly. fellow cultists aren't true friends. it's ultimately about control, not community.

 

[PAfb_640]

I wish I can re-believe in faiths and mysticism. Rational thinking is exhausting.

 

[Adûnâi]

they're labelled as cults for a reason. Their propensity for shunning and stigmatization of mental health would probably hurt you a lot more than their superficial friendliness would help.

I consider my mental state to be rather robust, so I doubt they could hurt me on that front. I'd be wary of... getting robbed or something, no idea how they operate.

If not, then there are plenty of clubs, communities and associations you can find about anything (sport, music, chess, astronomy...).

But that's it, I have no idea how or where to find them? Jehovah's Witnesses have an excellent propaganda/advertisement (both words are fine for me) campaign, that's how I know of them. My mom has suggested me university clubs, but honestly, it's not the beginning of the semester, and I have never seen any adverts for any clubs inmy school anyway, so I'm not sure whether they exist (and it's been half a decade now, huh).

And if my school has any activities, it would probably be... making camo nets for the army which I do not support (my classmates did it, that's how I know it).

I actually was part of a chess club (more like a chess class) years ago because it was apparently mandatory, but thinking back, I have no idea how I would get friends there at all. People there seemed already in groups, just as usual? Or maybe my impression was faulty, could be the case.

being at all unhappy while in a cult is most often seen as weakness or betrayal by the group.

So, like any social group ever created? Even on this forum I have to mind my smart tongue lest I offend the moderates and be banned in an instant. Lmao!

So you're telling me the cult would give me social connections depending on how well I do at clear-cut tasks? That would be a dream come true for me.

they cut off "outsiders" and discourage you from speaking to non-cultists, so it is very unlikely that you'll have friendships on the outside.

That's funny considering my situation. Anyway, thanks for the write-up, hugely appreciated! Although I doubt I could even be accepted into a cult in the first place - don't they require the recital of the Bible or something? And aren't they all creepy boomers anyway?

I wish I can re-believe in faiths and mysticism. Rational thinking is exhausting.

Same here, although I would never stoop to believing in a Christian god, I'm an atheist/pantheist/panentheist/pagan/Satanist if anything.

P.S. Two months ago, I bought a Tarot deck and did divination on the idea of my joining JW. Card 1 was High Priestess, card 6 - The Chariot, card 10 was 6 of Wands, immense triumph and glory, but the 11th card was 5 of Cups, very bad, broken heart. (I use an 11th card as a sort of a "gotcha" response, rather fitting here.)

 

[DeepCD]

All the advice mentioned above are great in my honest experience. it's best to join groups that focus on shared hobbies. Don't even think about joining the Jehovah's witnesses. The documentary below should help you avoid that. Best wishes!

P. S. ... Don't join any groups that knock on your door!

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I don't think it's a good idea to join (religious) cults except you want to be brainwashed and leaving a cult is also not easy if you don't like it in the end. That's just my opinion.

 

[Adûnâi]

The documentary below should help you avoid that.

Incidentally, this kind of "documentaries" is something I'm genuinely curious about as to how normies watch it. It's pure "propaganda", as I call it - due to the clearly biased and heavily manipulative editing style, no single talking head, just a mishmash of random people and scary music.

 

[tiger b]

From the very little I know about you...and what I know about Jehovah's Witnesses...no. Just no.

 

[cultpup]

I consider my mental state to be rather robust, so I doubt they could hurt me on that front. I'd be wary of... getting robbed or something, no idea how they operate.

thinking you are smarter than a cult or other manipulator is the most dangerous mindset you can have. you can't outsmart them in any way but avoiding them entirely. this isn't a matter of mental brute force, cults know how to break even the most "difficult" people down. like i said it is extremely insidious. you cannot outsmart a cult that you are a part of.

So, like any social group ever created? Even on this forum I have to mind my smart tongue lest I offend the moderates and be banned in an instant. Lmao!

obviously yeah but the point is it's extreme as you have grown true dependence on them.

So you're telling me the cult would give me social connections depending on how well I do at clear-cut tasks? That would be a dream come true for me.

"clear-cut" is hopeful.

but again, if it's what you want, by all means do what you want to do. you know your wants and needs best.

 

[Adûnâi]

thinking you are smarter than a cult or other manipulator is the most dangerous mindset you can have.

Pretty sure the most obvious ending to this would be me saying a politically incorrect thing, which in turn would prompt them to boot me out. Chances are I'd fail the vetting process in the first place.

but again, if it's what you want, by all means do what you want to do. you know your wants and needs best.

I'd join them in a heartbeat if they offered free cult-mandated GFs (for good behaviour), but I have a hunch it's full of Soviet boomers. I guess, I might try my luck with their propagandists again if I see them once more. But then, I have never given my phone number in any similar circumstances, and I'm afraid if I refuse outright, they'll just boo me away, so nothing interesting begins.

 

[lionetta12]

Not a joke question. I'm Ukrainian, have never talked to a single human being aside from my mom for 27 years, certified high-functioning Asperger. I have zero concept of a social circle. Could I solve it by joining a local cult? I've seen Jehovah's Witnesses propagate in my town, could they be of any help? (After all, they're supposed to prey on the weak and vulnerable, haha.)

I've talked to them today, two elderly ladies, but they were so lukewarm, that we just stayed silent... greatly confusing me, as I prepared to be defensive against their incessant sales pitches. It was a cool experience - while I can talk in class, talking to a complete stranger put me in utter stupor, especially as my brain was racking through the questions which would have damaged the conversation (such as "Are you getting paid to spread propaganda leaflets?").

I know quite a lot about different cults, it's a great interest to research the various ones for me personally.

The answer to your question would be sure, you'd probably make several «friends» within a cult. The issue sort of arise when you want to leave the cult or when you start questioning certain things within it verbally and openly after having formally joined. That can lead to you being outcasted and even be banned from the cult. Typically when someone is an ex-member of a cult, most cults have the rule of «you're not allowed to communicate with or be friends with such a person anymore». If people are caught still being in touch with you after you leave or are removed, they might get in trouble themselves and can get called into questioning by The Elders. That is extremely traumatizing and confusing for many ex-members, especially for those who found a spouse- and who had children within the cult, because those are no longer allowed to communicate with you either anymore if they wish to stay in the cult and on everyone's good side. It's hard for your former family and friends within the cult to leave as they are fully aware that they will lose all their social network then and have to start from scratch outside in a unknown world with people who are not part of cults.

So all in all, joining an actual cult is probably not the best idea if the only goal is to seek friendships. There's better and less toxic ways to form genuine friendships in an environment where you aren't restrained by so many different social, religious and way of living rules.

 

[Adûnâi]

There's better and less toxic ways to form genuine friendships in an environment where you aren't restrained by so many different social, religious and way of living rules.

Thanks for the intelligent reply! But what can those be? I've asked my mom about night clubs - apparently, they have been closed since the Russian invasion, oopsie (yes, I'm that clueless).

 

[lionetta12]

Thanks for the intelligent reply! But what can those be? I've asked my mom about night clubs - apparently, they have been closed since the Russian invasion, oopsie (yes, I'm that clueless).

I wouldn't personally recommend night clubs, but that's just because I'm not a person that has ever wanted to go to one so I stay away from them. However, night clubs might be a good alternative when they open again for you if you struggle in new social settings as alcohol can calm you down and lessen any social anxiety if you ever experience that for example, it's an informal setting and it should be fun and relaxing, people would let their guard down easy and be open to new connections. I'm very driven by meaningful and intellectual conversations and good relations so if someone has the energy and capacity, I'd recommend volunteering, joining a club/organization within a field of your interest like sports related if you are into that or within topics you care about and enjoy. There's plenty of organizations or groups to join usually locally, for example soccer groups, card and board game groups, political groups, hiking groups, music/band groups, clean nature of plastic and trash groups, etc. You can then easily find people with similar interests as you and who you can form that connection with, conversations will flow naturally then and it shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[Adûnâi]

There's plenty of organizations or groups to join usually locally, for example soccer groups, card and board game groups, political groups, hiking groups, music/band groups, clean nature of plastic and trash groups, etc.

But how do I find them? Are they on... Facebook or something? I've looked at shop signs, and the only interesting place I've found is a sex shop (which after a year I finally checked out yesterday, the shop keeper was super creepy so I ran out 30 sec later).

Do they just not advertise? Or is the culture different? All I see is adverts about studying abroad (for girls, of course).

 

[lionetta12]

But how do I find them? Are they on... Facebook or something? I've looked at shop signs, and the only interesting place I've found is a sex shop (which after a year I finally checked out yesterday, the shop keeper was super creepy so I ran out 30 sec later).

Do they just not advertise? Or is the culture different? All I see is adverts about studying abroad (for girls, of course).

You can google organizations and then put your town, region or state for example behind it like «groups and spare time activities or organizations in Kiev» in Ukrainian. I'm sure most of them would have a facebook group too, maybe they have their own website if they are large enough. You could also google events nearby like for example «events in Kiev» to see organized events and concerts nearby in the town or area you live in.

 

[DeepCD]

FYI, if you become a Jehovah witness. and you make friends there. you will not be able to go to the nightclubs together and have a great time. because they don't believe in drinking or smoking or drugs or masturbation or sex before marriage, etc etc ... If I'm not mistaken.

they don't even celebrate birthdays!

each is to their own ... but you got to be a straight goody goody, and I'm sure I'm just touching the tip of the iceberg, .

so you can't pick up chicks and be a pimp daddy in this faith, . Just saying.

 

[Adûnâi]

because they don't believe in drinking or smoking or drugs or masturbation or sex before marriage, etc etc ... If I'm not mistaken.

they don't even celebrate birthdays!

Literally me (aside from no masturbation). But then, how do thy procreate then? By propaganda?

 

[tiger b]

After they're married.

 

[Adûnâi]

After they're married.

Wouldn't be an issue for me as I have zero social life as it stands. Would joining the JW be the most efficient way to gain it?

 

[tiger b]

What do you mean by 'it'?

 

[Adûnâi]

What do you mean by 'it'?

I mean social life, gain social life, of course.

 

[tiger b]

I think it sounds like going to a dentist just because you want a shiny sticker at the end...but the sticker doesn't seem to be really that shiny after all.

I suppose it might be worth a shot, maybe it'll be the start of 'something'. Like you recruiting them! Only you can judge.

 

[Adûnâi]

Update - maybe I should join the Hare Krishna cult instead? They seem to have a congregation in my area, lmao.

 

[Adûnâi]

I've found a Pentecostal church in my town, would it be of any worth?

I've also asked this under Asmongold's video on incels - there have bee n a slew of advice (even by a Ukrainian person), another one has just today been about creating a MeetUp account and going hiking - I've done it right now, and there are no offline groups in my entire country. And about hiking I would have zero clue either.

 

[CuriosityAndCat]

Cults are a bad way to socialize. Incels are a terrible group to socialize with and will teach you how not to be social.
If you're in school, are there any clubs you could join? Is there any groups you can volunteer with? Maybe create the Meetup group. Hiking is simple. Putting one foot in front of the other till you make it back. Wear sunscreen and bugspray. Bring a bottle of water. Wear proper shoes. Maybe have a map.
I think having a common activity might help you learn to socialize.

 

[Adûnâi]

Incels are a terrible group to socialize with and will teach you how not to be social.

I do not consider online interactions "socialising". I cannot socialise with incels IRL because the sub-culture does not exist in my country because the Ukraine does not speak English to begin with.

Cults are a bad way to socialize.

Beggars can't be choosers. My go-to socialisation venue would have been the Communist Party, but the USSR fell apart before I was born, so I'm out of luck.

Hiking is simple. Putting one foot in front of the other till you make it back. Wear sunscreen and bugspray. Bring a bottle of water. Wear proper shoes. Maybe have a map.

All of what you had just described is highly extreme. Hiking is probably driving to the mountains for a few hours or something (W Ukraine).

 

[CuriosityAndCat]

You talking with me is a conversation. It might not be socializing for you, but I'm responding like how I'd speak. You're learning how I talk. IRL is going to be a different medium and will feel uncomfortable at first.

Focus on volunteering. I think you'll find people appreciative of your involvement and will be more likely to talk to you. Also you might find the activity fun.

Hiking doesn't need to be extreme in the mountains. There's probably trails within 15min considering Ukraine is known for farming. Hiking trails near lakes are my favorite. They're flat and you can find nice views of water. I recommend hiking flat land or gentle hills starting out. Also go for a shorter hike around 15-30min. You can think of it as walking, but on dirt. However, lets hold off on this considering forming a social group might be difficult.