Discussion Being realistic and stopping gaslighting yourself.

[Insomniac]

Your life is predetermined.

It's not about how hard you work or how hard you try. It's about where you are from and who you know.

I'm sorry but that's the truth. I work hard everyday. I always had 90-100% in my calculus classes and algebra and statistics in high school and college.

I was just gifted at school.

But here I'm, 25yo, jobless, crippled with anxiety and depression and completely stuck.

And me being good at certain things like math was simply because my genes and environments were favorable to it. That's it. I was not better than anyone else. But in high school I thought I was a genius.

What a fool I was.

Anyway, I just wanted to thow that out there.

A lot of people are deathly gifted in life. I live in a third world country, I see people who work wood in the street. They are so good. I see women who crochet for a living. They are so fucking good at it. I see old women who work on carpets. Pure talent.

Yet, yet, yet they only make peanuts for everything they do.

Farmers who work hard to feed us. They work like dogs, under uncertainty, have to deal with the caprices of weather. Yet, they can't even fees their families.

In India, there are countless people who are super stars when it comes to technology and electronics. But they can't even afford rent. I'm not India but I just know. In China, people are so knowledgeable but most of them work horrible factory jobs.

It's okay to stop bulshiting yourself. Life is predetermined and the o ly thing you can do if you're one of the unlucky ones is to brace yourself for the worse that is to come.

 

[houseofleaves]

Yes. What you said is mostly true. And there's insane luck. But it's not for us.

 

[FuneralCry]

It really is such a cruel and unfair life and I do believe that everything is determined by chance, some people will suffer a lot more than others in life and that is simply just the way that things are. I have never wanted to exist in a world like this.

 

[ornitier199]

 

[Superdeterminist]

100% yes. Here's an approach to the question that I heard the other day, which I really like: how does the present 'know' what state to evolve into next? The answer is: the present state already contains the information that instructs the next moment. I think predetermination is unavoidable.

 

[Atlantian]

I disagree with your statement that a persons success in life is largely dependent on who they know and where they're from. The real key to success is largely influences by intelligence. Hard work is easy. Animals that are lacking in intelligence can get a lot of work done. But what separates those that make progress with their efforts is their brains capabilities; humans are the greatest example of this.

 

[Tbj123]

Agree. If I knew years ago, what I know now, I wouldn't be in this mess. But here I am

 

[Arvinneedstodie]

I disagree with your statement that a persons success in life is largely dependent on who they know and where they're from. The real key to success is largely influences by intelligence. Hard work is easy. Animals that are lacking in intelligence can get a lot of work done. But what separates those that make progress with their efforts is their brains capabilities; humans are the greatest example of this.

Your example only works in extremes, "dumb domesticated animals vs smart manipulative humans", and even then its still about luck. Some living being was born as a hard working mule, whilst another was born as the land owner that inherited the farm on which the mule and some poor low wage migrant worker are working on.

Not saying that hard work and big brain don't matter, but for most average people it's luck and circumstances that matter the most. This is such an obvious fact, but society pretends that it's hard work that determines everything. We also worship the geniuses as if we can all become the next Elon musk, as if he wasn't lucky to be born with great intelligence and into a wealthy good family.

 

[Atlantian]

Your example only works in extremes, "dumb domesticated animals vs smart manipulative humans", and even then its still about luck. Some living being was born as a hard working mule, whilst another was born as the land owner that inherited the farm on which the mule and some poor low wage migrant worker are working on.

Not saying that hard work and big brain don't matter, but for most average people it's luck and circumstances that matter the most. This is such an obvious fact, but society pretends that it's hard work that determines everything. We also worship the geniuses as if we can all become the next Elon musk, as if he wasn't lucky to be born with great intelligence and into a wealthy good family.

I disagree but I'm not going to argue over a forum about it

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Being born in a lesser off place gives one perspective on how different life could be if they were endowed with the silver spoon instead. Of course, there are other factors besides birthright, but a great deal of aptitude, intelligence, social skills, appearances, etc are determined by genes and early life experiences.

We start off with far more neurons and synaptic connections than we need, and gradually, over the course of our development, certain cellular configurations take presence and weed out the weaker, unnecessary links. This process goes on beyond the scenes for years and years, unbeknownst to us. Memories form and solidify based on cellular demand, and certain connections are strengthened depending on what our environment necessitates.

We can't influence the trajectory of our lives while being helpless infants in the cradle, yet when an infant has been abused or neglected by their parents, the maladaptive adult is not blamed for doing some voodoo magic to undo the effects of the abuse. As if it was truly that simple. A lot of our life is predetermined not just by genes by the characters who occupy our life's stage during those crucial periods of synaptic plasticity and neurodevelopment.

Having control and agency feels good. It soothes our worries that life is random, absurd, and driven by complicated entropic processes beyond our comprehension. A person has no control over the womb they were born from, the land they were born on and the subsequent citizenship bestowed upon them, they likely also have no control over where they were educated or what they studied- as most educational systems aren't built around exploration and having the patience to teach children new skills that they may not excel in- and so on and so forth.

Throughout my life, I have often been told that I have a "bad attitude" for being so deterministic. Yet, it is hard not to feel hopeless when you were born sick, developmentally delayed, with no family, in a shit hole with no access to what most people take for granted, like shops and proper schools or high paying jobs, all while some charlatan self help gurus harp on about how we control our own destinies.

It is easy for people to say that we shape our own futures when they have the tools and materials necessary for molding positive outcomes. However, many individuals are empty handed with no resources (be that material or emotional) through no fault of their own, yet find themselves chastised for not making something out of nothing.

 

[Viafactorum]

I disagree with your statement that a persons success in life is largely dependent on who they know and where they're from. The real key to success is largely influences by intelligence. Hard work is easy. Animals that are lacking in intelligence can get a lot of work done. But what separates those that make progress with their efforts is their brains capabilities; humans are the greatest example of this.

Intelligence and hard work will only take you so far in life. In this crowded world what sets you apart is not how sharp you are but rather how well connected you are. My seniors and my professors spent decades of their lives learning complex sciences. They are hard working and highly intelligent people who are also tempered by discipline. Yet they wake up everyday and dress themselves up like clowns and make their daily commute to their jobs and work outrageous hours only to get paid a salary that some 12 year old Tik Tok star makes with 1 video of them dancing like they're having a seizure. Intelligence will only get you so far, unless you are referring to intelligence in the context of street smarts. In that case I do agree with you. Intelligence or Hard Work is not enough to make it in this crowded world. There is a lot of privilege playing into it as well.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

I was given every possible advantage and wasted them….

 

[bubugurl]

Agree. If I knew years ago, what I know now, I wouldn't be in this mess. But here I am

Well said.

Being born in a lesser off place gives one perspective on how different life could be if they were endowed with the silver spoon instead. Of course, there are other factors besides birthright, but a great deal of aptitude, intelligence, social skills, appearances, etc are determined by genes and early life experiences.

We start off with far more neurons and synaptic connections than we need, and gradually, over the course of our development, certain cellular configurations take presence and weed out the weaker, unnecessary links. This process goes on beyond the scenes for years and years, unbeknownst to us. Memories form and solidify based on cellular demand, and certain connections are strengthened depending on what our environment necessitates.

We can't influence the trajectory of our lives while being helpless infants in the cradle, yet when an infant has been abused or neglected by their parents, the maladaptive adult is not blamed for doing some voodoo magic to undo the effects of the abuse. As if it was truly that simple. A lot of our life is predetermined not just by genes by the characters who occupy our life's stage during those crucial periods of synaptic plasticity and neurodevelopment.

Having control and agency feels good. It soothes our worries that life is random, absurd, and driven by complicated entropic processes beyond our comprehension. A person has no control over the womb they were born from, the land they were born on and the subsequent citizenship bestowed upon them, they likely also have no control over where they were educated or what they studied- as most educational systems aren't built around exploration and having the patience to teach children new skills that they may not excel in- and so on and so forth.

Throughout my life, I have often been told that I have a "bad attitude" for being so deterministic. Yet, it is hard not to feel hopeless when you were born sick, developmentally delayed, with no family, in a shit hole with no access to what most people take for granted, like shops and proper schools or high paying jobs, all while some charlatan self help gurus harp on about how we control our own destinies.

It is easy for people to say that we shape our own futures when they have the tools and materials necessary for molding positive outcomes. However, many individuals are empty handed with no resources (be that material or emotional) through no fault of their own, yet find themselves chastised for not making something out of nothing.

Thoughtul. Succinct. Impressive.

 

[Hollowman]

I was given every possible advantage and wasted them….

Me too, it's hard to live with.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Farmers who work hard to feed us. They work like dogs, under uncertainty, have to deal with the caprices of weather. Yet, they can't even fees their families.

I have nothing against farmers. They are absolutely needed in this world and keep us all fed. I'm not sure where you are from, but here in the US, by design, farmers are very protected. They get paid by the government if they don't grow certain crops. If their crops fail, they get compensated by the government. If they have lackluster crops, the price of that commodity is usually driven higher, so they get additional compensation by the consumer and the government. If they have a bumper crop, they make plenty of money, too, even if the price of the commodity is driven down somewhat, because the government pays them for their losses. It's really all win for them. I understand the reasons for having such laws protecting them, because without them, there wouldn't be food to feed everyone (not that there is enough now, mind you). A lot of them usually carry a lot of debt, and they need to be able to pay on that debt, even if they don't make money, in order to "keep the farm", so to speak. My only point, I guess, is that at least here in the US, farmers have it made. They get paid if they fail. They get paid if they don't fail. I don't know of another profession that gets that treatment. And it really has to be that way, if you think about it.

 

[chocolatebar]

I think the source of confusion in here is the difference from being predetermined to being restricted. Our lives aren't predetermined in a way that the future is written, because we have power over it (one could argue in the field of pholosophy that we can't be sure if we have or not a free will, but it wouldn't help much in here). However, our life circumstances will restrict the possibilities we have when we are born. As an example, if someone wants to be a medalist olympic athlete, but wasn't born with certain physical characteristics, that person will never be able to accomplish it.

There are many limiting factors, like physical, geographic, social, economics and so on, but they won't make people's lives deterministic. What they do is restrict the available paths you can take, make some narrower and put additional obstacles.

When someone's goals are in their available paths, they will feel ok, but when not, they will carry a burden for the rest of their lives.

 

[Insomniac]

I have nothing against farmers. They are absolutely needed in this world and keep us all fed. I'm not sure where you are from, but here in the US, by design, farmers are very protected. They get paid by the government if they don't grow certain crops. If their crops fail, they get compensated by the government. If they have lackluster crops, the price of that commodity is usually driven higher, so they get additional compensation by the consumer and the government. If they have a bumper crop, they make plenty of money, too, even if the price of the commodity is driven down somewhat, because the government pays them for their losses. It's really all win for them. I understand the reasons for having such laws protecting them, because without them, there wouldn't be food to feed everyone (not that there is enough now, mind you). A lot of them usually carry a lot of debt, and they need to be able to pay on that debt, even if they don't make money, in order to "keep the farm", so to speak. My only point, I guess, is that at least here in the US, farmers have it made. They get paid if they fail. They get paid if they don't fail. I don't know of another profession that gets that treatment. And it really has to be that way, if you think about it.

It's about where you are from and who you know.

I live in a third world country,

 

[Insomniac]

Also, hard works does pay off yes but only the work of your ancestors. Your hard work will never lay you off but it might change everything for the one who will succeed you (by blood or not).

We are the result of our genes, the environment and the work of our predecessors.

Nothing of what we have is what we ourselves work for.

The biggest lie is that wealth is built in a lifetime. It takes multiple life times and some bloodlines are just not even trying.

While others are smart enough/evil enough to steal the work/ressources of others.

 

[Insomniac]

 

[whatevs]

100% yes. Here's an approach to the question that I heard the other day, which I really like: how does the present 'know' what state to evolve into next? The answer is: the present state already contains the information that instructs the next moment. I think predetermination is unavoidable.

Thus the phenomenon of life was contained in the first 'moments' of the Universe. The disposition of matter/energy at the beginning of our reality was exactly the one needed for the emergence of life in one of the trillions of planets that would form. Interesting. Fatalism makes easier to believe reality has intention behind.

Also, hard works does pay off yes but only the work of your ancestors. Your hard work will never lay you off but it might change everything for the one who will succeed you (by blood or not).

False. There are many instances in which hard and CREATIVE work results in financial and social success during your lifetime. You have to work everyday but also try something new for this.

And even when you aren't creative if you have the right genes and environment hard work is often indispensable to succeed.

Did you make this thread to avoid cleaning your room? Watch a Jordan Peterson motivational video or something. Hehehe.

My personal problem with hard work is that I'm sad and tired, so I am ill equipped to produce it, but I see every day how it obviously is an important ingredient of an enjoyable life. Even just battling your mental problems and trying not to become a drug addict, criminal or a bitter person during formative years is hard work and can pay off by becoming an adult that is less miserable. But you NEED motivation and health to work hard, be it professionally or to overcome addictions and psychological pitfalls.

 

[Insomniac]

False. There are many instances in which hard and CREATIVE work results in financial and social success during your lifetime. You have to work everyday but also try something new for this.

And even when you aren't creative if you have the right genes and environment hard work is often indispensable to succeed.

Did you make this thread to avoid cleaning your room? Watch a Jordan Peterson motivational video or something. Hehehe.

My personal problem with hard work is that I'm sad and tired, so I am ill equipped to produce it, but I see every day how it obviously is an important ingredient of an enjoyable life. Even just battling your mental problems and trying not to become a drug addict, criminal or a bitter person during formative years is hard work and can pay off by becoming an adult that is less miserable. But you NEED motivation and health to work hard, be it professionally or to overcome addictions and psychological pitfalls

Insane creativity can also be the result of generations of creativity savings. What I said didn't apply to money but to wealth in general. It can be wealth in outermost of creativity. Money isn't the key form that wealth can take.

Anyway I know nothing. I don't even know anymore. Life keep making new rules and nothing will change the fact that, as I' writing this, an average looking lady is making $15M on Only fans off of showing pictures of her buthole.

 

[whatevs]

Insane creativity can also be the result of generations of creativity savings. What I said didn't apply to money but to wealth in general. It can be wealth in outermost of creativity. Money isn't the key form that wealth can take.

Anyway I know nothing. I don't even know anymore. Life keep making new rules and nothing will change the fact that, as I' writing this, an average looking lady is making $15M on Only fans off of showing pictures of her buthole.

If it consoles you, that kind of success feels a lot like becoming rich out of being a sicario or selling pornography. Wait, that's selling pornography, innit? That's not success in my book, it's literally selling your soul to the Devil.

 

[Insomniac]

If it consoles you, that kind of success feels a lot like becoming rich out of being a sicario or selling pornography. Wait, that's selling pornography, innit? That's not success in my book, it's literally selling your soul to the Devil.

Yeah but many people do the same thing and can't make that kind of money off of it. A lot of pornstars are struggling lol