Become immortal, and then die

[spellbound]

Movies enthusiasts will have recognised this quote for being from 1960's Breathless (A bout de souffle) by Jean-Luc Godard.

Patricia: What is your greatest ambition in life ?
Parvulesco the Writer: To become immortal, and then die.

This sentence, as memorable as it is mysterious, I feel is often misinterpreted. So I'll give my own interpretation on what Godard is telling us about death.

First off, to become immortal means to not be able to die, which contradicts directly wanting to die. This obvious contradiction is meant to challenge logic itself, which parallels an act of suicide that defy the classical logic of life itself: that all living things must do their best to keep on living.
Furthermore, what is immortality ? Beyond the impossibility to die, it is something deeper: understanding the true nature of life. To become immortal is to crack the biggest secret of life, which allows you to live forever. Now I don't pretend like I know the key to life itself, but there is one answer that fits our puzzle: as the natural order of existence is decay and entropy, the point of life can be found in death. To understand this is to become immortal, as you understand life intimately and death cannot affect you. To voluntarily enter this state of decay (by catching the bus) is to become immortal, figuratively. And then die.

I don't think this is a stretch, because the willingness to die is indubitably present in the original quote. I also think the more common interpretation of saying to become immortal is to be remembered is a naive, soulless interpretation of such an important quote. No man cares about fame more than he cares about understanding the key to life itself.
Anyways, for film buffs that haven't seen this film, give it a try. And those who have, let me know what you think of my interpretation.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I haven't seen the film. Your take is interesting though. I suppose it assumes we understand everything at the point of death- which may or may not be the case. Do those who die in their sleep or die suddenly in an accident still have an epiphany moment?

My own take would rather be refering to a famous or infamous figure. A famous artist say- Elvis, Van Gogh, Mozart. Those people still remain with us through their art. Similarly- for all the wrong reasons- will the world ever forget Hitler or some of the most prolific serial killers?

Maybe a contoversial opinion but, I'd say part of the reason Van Gogh is so famous is because he (supposedly) committed suicide. His whole 'tragic' and 'tormented' life here is partly what's sold to us when we appreciate his work. While I do actually enjoy his work- I'd say there were many more technically better artists that have been lost to obscurity.

But obviously- someone would have to attain fame or infamy in their lives to achieve a form of immortality that way. That would be my take on it.

As I say- I'm not familiar with the film. Did Parvulesco hope to make an impression on the world? Maybe through his writing?

 

[Forveleth]

I have recently found this youtube channel "It's Just Cinema" where there are shorts that break down certain movies or genre of movies and each short usually makes some sort of point by the end. This post reads like one of those shorts and I really like it.

Reading a synopsis, it sounds like an interesting film. I will have to see if I can find it somewhere.

 

[spellbound]

I haven't seen the film. Your take is interesting though. I suppose it assumes we understand everything at the point of death- which may or may not be the case. Do those who die in their sleep or die suddenly in an accident still have an epiphany moment?

I don't think you do. I don't think you understand death even if you're conscious. But I think what parvulesco meant is that suicide is the only way to truly understand death, and life, for the reasons I've discussed above. And not just any suicide: a true, nihilistic suicide that comes purely from wanting to be one with the decay. I think this is what being immortal means.

My own take would rather be refering to a famous or infamous figure. A famous artist say- Elvis, Van Gogh, Mozart. Those people still remain with us through their art. Similarly- for all the wrong reasons- will the world ever forget Hitler or some of the most prolific serial killers?

Maybe a contoversial opinion but, I'd say part of the reason Van Gogh is so famous is because he (supposedly) committed suicide. His whole 'tragic' and 'tormented' life here is partly what's sold to us when we appreciate his work. While I do actually enjoy his work- I'd say there were many more technically better artists that have been lost to obscurity.

But obviously- someone would have to attain fame or infamy in their lives to achieve a form of immortality that way. That would be my take on it.

I understand this take, this is what is classically said about this quote, but I personally disagree. I think the idea that fame is immortality is shallow and anthropocentrist, because who will remember Hitler after the sun explodes ? We're nothing. I think true immortality has to come from transcending humanity and life itself. And to transcend life, you have to catch the bus.
Im not any closer to the truth than you are tho, I just felt like defending my interpretation. Maybe it's one of those quotes we'll never really understand.
Watching the film won't really make you understand the quote any better anyways.

I have recently found this youtube channel "It's Just Cinema" where there are shorts that break down certain movies or genre of movies and each short usually makes some sort of point by the end. This post reads like one of those shorts and I really like it.

Reading a synopsis, it sounds like an interesting film. I will have to see if I can find it somewhere.

Thanks a lot ! I'll have to give that channel a watch.
I really enjoy this film, it truly has an insane amount of charm to it. And it pretty much single-handedly started the french new wave, so you should have to much trouble finding it online or in a library.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I don't think you do. I don't think you understand death even if you're conscious. But I think what parvulesco meant is that suicide is the only way to truly understand death, and life, for the reasons I've discussed above. And not just any suicide: a true, nihilistic suicide that comes purely from wanting to be one with the decay. I think this is what being immortal means.

I understand this take, this is what is classically said about this quote, but I personally disagree. I think the idea that fame is immortality is shallow and anthropocentrist, because who will remember Hitler after the sun explodes ? We're nothing. I think true immortality has to come from transcending humanity and life itself. And to transcend life, you have to catch the bus.
Im not any closer to the truth than you are tho, I just felt like defending my interpretation. Maybe it's one of those quotes we'll never really understand.
Watching the film won't really make you understand the quote any better anyways.

Thanks a lot ! I'll have to give that channel a watch.
I really enjoy this film, it truly has an insane amount of charm to it. And it pretty much single-handedly started the french new wave, so you should have to much trouble finding it online or in a library.

As in 'The Matrix'- 'there is no spoon'?



So- it doesn't even matter that we die- if we don't exist? Or, if we are more than our physical selves.

I suppose it hinges on belief systems more than anything else. Can we be immortal without having been born to begin with?

Do you believe in practical immortality then? That if we reach a certain level of understanding, a part of us will live forever? What part though? Our consciousness?

I suppose I like the idea of an epiphany moment before we die- where everything we've ever wondered about makes sense. Maybe at that point- there simply wouldn't be any reason to keep living because somehow we knew and had experienced everything.

I tend to think our belief systems and interpretations are also influenced by what appeals to us. I suppose because immortality horrifies me- I tend to find ways to disprove its likelihood/ possibility to myself. Do you want to be immortal?

 

[spellbound]

As in 'The Matrix'- 'there is no spoon'?



So- it doesn't even matter that we die- if we don't exist? Or, if we are more than our physical selves.

I suppose it hinges on belief systems more than anything else. Can we be immortal without having been born to begin with?

Do you believe in practical immortality then? That if we reach a certain level of understanding, a part of us will live forever? What part though? Our consciousness?

I suppose I like the idea of an epiphany moment before we die- where everything we've ever wondered about makes sense. Maybe at that point- there simply wouldn't be any reason to keep living because somehow we knew and had experienced everything.

I tend to think our belief systems and interpretations are also influenced by what appeals to us. I suppose because immortality horrifies me- I tend to find ways to disprove its likelihood/ possibility to myself. Do you want to be immortal?

No I'd definitely hate to be immortal in the classic sense, it's just horrifying
I do believe in a concept of immortality tho. I believe in the Buddhist idea that there is no self. But I wouldn't go as far as to say we don't exist. I think existence, and the universe, is immortal, which would make us immortal too, but only once we die, because decay is our true alignment with the universe's order. And that's what my interpretation of the quote is. Suicide is the way to immortality, because you're in perfect harmony with the universe.
I believe that is true for every corpse, but I do believe suicide is the path to enlightenment, in life at least. Maybe reincarnation is a punishment to those who didn't understand that and failed to ctb in their lives.
But, like you said, it's pretty dependent on belief systems.
I was meaning to do a post on my views on the philosophy that their is no self and that our true purpose is decay
So do you personally think that we don't exist ? Like at all ? How does that work ?

 

[Forever Sleep]

No I'd definitely hate to be immortal in the classic sense, it's just horrifying
I do believe in a concept of immortality tho. I believe in the Buddhist idea that there is no self. But I wouldn't go as far as to say we don't exist. I think existence, and the universe, is immortal, which would make us immortal too, but only once we die, because decay is our true alignment with the universe's order. And that's what my interpretation of the quote is. Suicide is the way to immortality, because you're in perfect harmony with the universe.
I believe that is true for every corpse, but I do believe suicide is the path to enlightenment, in life at least. Maybe reincarnation is a punishment to those who didn't understand that and failed to ctb in their lives.
But, like you said, it's pretty dependent on belief systems.
I was meaning to do a post on my views on the philosophy that their is no self and that our true purpose is decay
So do you personally think that we don't exist ? Like at all ? How does that work ?

I tend to believe we are simply biological machines that evolved to develop a sense of self (consciousness.) I'm not absolutely convinced there is nothing beyond that but, I'm hoping so. If the reverse is the case, I'm tired of being a puppet for consciousness.

I do believe we exist (unfortunately.) It was more- I was trying to get my head around what you believe.

I've heard people say they believe all our consciousnesses are like water droplets- returning to a bigger ocean when we die.

It's interesting you see suicide as a path to that. Many religious people seem to believe suicide traps us in a kind of purgatory. Although- your idea does make sense in terms that a person choosing when to die is puposefully confronting their mortality. I think people tend to think that a suicide 'shocks' the soul but then- why should it- if we knew it was coming?