Help Awkward situation: making plans for AFTER you 'ctb'

[BipolarGuy]

Hopefully this thread will prove useful to others too.

There are understandably plenty of threads on here discussing methods and some that discuss notes.
But what about planning for what happens in the immediate aftermath?

In my specific case the reason I ask this is because I have a particular set of circumstances that I want to prepare for.


1. My family have only ever been emotionally abusive towards me: gaslighting me and pulling me down at every opportunity.

I do not want any of them at my funeral.
How can I ensure this?

I've thought about forming a Facebook messenger group consisting of people I trust and telling them of my wishes closer to the time.
But isn't that placing an enormous burden on them?
And what's to stop my family just taking over the situation?


2. I may have a little bit of money that can be put towards a funeral/headstone.
How do I go about passing it on to someone I trust?

I can't just message them saying "I'm going to take my own life, can I have your bank details so I can give you money towards funeral costs?" because they might intervene.
At the very least I would expect the police to be called.

Equally I can't just leave cash somewhere because this will surely be handed to my family by default?

 

[Multiplied Obscurity]

Hopefully this thread will prove useful to others too.

There are understandably plenty of threads on here discussing methods and some that discuss notes.
But what about planning for what happens in the immediate aftermath?

In my specific case the reason I ask this is because I have a particular set of circumstances that I want to prepare for.


1. My family have only ever been emotionally abusive towards me: gaslighting me and pulling me down at every opportunity.

I do not want any of them at my funeral.
How can I ensure this?

I've thought about forming a Facebook messenger group consisting of people I trust and telling them of my wishes closer to the time.
But isn't that placing an enormous burden on them?
And what's to stop my family just taking over the situation?


2. I may have a little bit of money that can be put towards a funeral/headstone.
How do I go about passing it on to someone I trust?

I can't just message them saying "I'm going to take my own life, can I have your bank details so I can give you money towards funeral costs?" because they might intervene.
At the very least I would expect the police to be called.

Equally I can't just leave cash somewhere because this will surely be handed to my family by default?

Maybe try a Will if you can then again that might alert someone.

 

[DyingAlf]

Some suggestions to take or leave as you wish...

Write your decisions/wishes into your will.
Leave sealed boxes/envelopes (of money/whatever) with peoples names & contact info clearly written on them & mark them 'private and confidential' (police might open them but as long as your family does not get to them first they shouldn't/hopefully won't get them).
Pay for your headstone in advance & leave the detailed information about it with your will or in one of the boxes/envelopes.

 

[Life_and_Death]

as for the family thing. i have trusted people that know im suicidal that have strict orders to basically be my body guard. they know who i dont want there and they will be kicked out if cops have to be called.
as for the funeral itself i plan on purchasing everything needed before hand so my loved ones dont have a bigger burden to carry.

 

[BipolarGuy]

Some suggestions to take or leave as you wish...

Write your decisions/wishes into your will.
Leave sealed boxes/envelopes (of money/whatever) with peoples names & contact info clearly written on them & mark them 'private and confidential' (police might open them but as long as your family does not get to them first they shouldn't/hopefully won't get them).
Pay for your headstone in advance & leave the detailed information about it with your will or in one of the boxes/envelopes.

Paying for things/putting a deposit down in advance is a very good idea.

Obviously it would be no good providing them with my contact details though, although that can be got around.

I won't have enough money to cover everything though.
So do I just get in touch with the council and ask if they can help, for instance...without giving details of course.
I could then pass this info on in a note or a message.

 

[DyingAlf]

Obviously it would be no good providing them with my contact details though, although that can be got around.

No, but you could provide them with the detail of a person (or 2) that you do trust & do want to be involved in your funeral etc

 

[rt1989526]

Side question: how expensive is a funeral these days?

 

[BipolarGuy]

Side question: how expensive is a funeral these days?

Depends where you are and what you want.
Google is your friend :)

 

[BPD Barbie]

Side question: how expensive is a funeral these days?

They reckon in the UK the average cost is something like £5,000.

For the family thing, I'd say like others, write a will and leave your funeral wishes in there. The problem is I doubt anyone could physically stop your family attending your funeral, especially if they were the ones to arrange it.

 

[BipolarGuy]

They reckon in the UK the average cost is something like £5,000.

For the family thing, I'd say like others, write a will and leave your funeral wishes in there. The problem is I doubt anyone could physically stop your family attending your funeral, especially if they were the ones to arrange it.

The will thing isn't a bad suggestion but aren't wills normally read and sorted out when everything else is done?

If I'm right, a will would have little impact on what actually happens in the aftermath.

On my family:
I'm not wanting them to organise the funeral or have anything to do with it.

I will need to research what help is available from organisations such as the council for help with the cost of a funeral, as I won't be able to cover the entire cost, and can't expect others to put their hands in their pockets. Frankly many of them are a bit strapped for cash themselves anyway.

 

[Emily_Numb]

The will thing isn't a bad suggestion but aren't wills normally read and sorted out when everything else is done?

If I'm right, a will would have little impact on what actually happens in the aftermath.

On my family:
I'm not wanting them to organise the funeral or have anything to do with it.

I will need to research what help is available from organisations such as the council for help with the cost of a funeral, as I won't be able to cover the entire cost, and can't expect others to put their hands in their pockets. Frankly many of them are a bit strapped for cash themselves anyway.

It's called a Will. A Will, will be issued to your next of kin in death. Most funerals happen 3+ weeks after death in the UK because it's so busy. Wills with specific requests are not cheap. You can of course have a next of kin do all funeral planning. It's up to you who you pick to do this. Next of kin is legally binding. They will be the only one allowed to deal with your body and plans after death.

You can request people don't come to the funeral, but it's impossible to stop them. You'll be dead anyway and the police are going to get involved in that. The cemetery is a public place and as in life, you cannot dictate who goes there. I wouldn't really get that worked up over this. You will be at peace and gone anyway.

If you don't have the money for a funeral, you will be cremated. I don't believe you can request a burial if you haven't paid for the plot. It won't be an option. It's called a Public Health Funeral. If you have no estate to speak of this will be your option. They are almost always done at short notice and maybe that's a better option for you if you don't want family to come?

There are options where if you're in receipt of certain benefits, you can claim a Funeral Payment. You will need to pay ⅓ of the funeral costs out of your estate. It will be a simple funeral. This way, burial is an option.

Headstones for burial plots in the UK are in the £1000's and each letter engraving will cost you. A cremation plaque is a lot less.

I think it really does depend on your financial situation but by the sound of it, you are wanting a burial plot and are not in receipt of benefits, you're going to need about £5k like another poster mentioned. If you are in receipt of benefits, you'll need to set aside about £1,500 -£2000 to cover costs.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

A will doesn't guarantee your wishes.

I suggest getting a power of attorney to override your family's rights as next of kin and instead all decisions go to someone you trust. Make them the executor of your will and your estate, give them the right to make decisions about your body like burial vs cremation and funeral arrangements or even no funeral. They'll get your death certificate, they'll have the right to publish an obituary, your family shouldn't.

 

[BipolarGuy]

It's called a Will. A Will, will be issued to your next of kin in death. Most funerals happen 3+ weeks after death in the UK because it's so busy. Wills with specific requests are not cheap. You can of course have a next of kin do all funeral planning. It's up to you who you pick to do this. Next of kin is legally binding. They will be the only one allowed to deal with your body and plans after death.

You can request people don't come to the funeral, but it's impossible to stop them. You'll be dead anyway and the police are going to get involved in that. The cemetery is a public place and as in life, you cannot dictate who goes there. I wouldn't really get that worked up over this. You will be at please and gone anyway.

If you don't have the money for a funeral, you will be cremated. I don't believe you can request a burial if you haven't paid for the plot. It won't be an option. It's called a Public Health Funeral. If you have no estate to speak of this will be your option. They are almost always done at short notice and maybe that's a better option for you if you don't want family to come?

There are options where if you're in receipt of certain benefits, you can claim a Funeral Payment. You will need to pay ⅓ of the funeral costs out of your estate. It will be a simple funeral. This way, burial is an option.

Headstones for burial plots in the UK are in the £1000's and each letter engraving will cost you. A cremation plaque is a lot less.

I think it really does depend on your financial situation but by the sound of it, you are wanting a burial plot and are not in receipt of benefits, you're going to need about £5k like another poster mentioned. If you are in receipt of benefits, you'll need to set aside about £1,500 -£2000 to cover costs.

A will doesn't guarantee your wishes.

I suggest getting a power of attorney to override your family's rights as next of kin and instead all decisions go to someone you trust. Make them the executor of your will and your estate, give them the right to make decisions about your body like burial vs cremation and funeral arrangements or even no funeral. They'll get your death certificate, they'll have the right to publish an obituary, your family shouldn't.

POA is another good idea.
Thank you.

In terms of paying for a funeral, what about getting a loan?
How will that be treated once I'm gone?

EDIT: just did some research on power of attorney. Lasting powers of attorney cease when the person dies, and in any case there is no type of LPA that enables someone to control what happens after you die, as far as I am aware. It's all about controlling the care you receive and taking care of your affairs while alive.

 

[Emily_Numb]

POA is another good idea.
Thank you.

In terms of paying for a funeral, what about getting a loan?
How will that be treated once I'm gone?

EDIT: just did some research on power of attorney. Lasting powers of attorney cease when the person dies, and in any case there is no type of LPA that enables someone to control what happens after you die, as far as I am aware. It's all about controlling the care you receive and taking care of your affairs while alive.

LPA is only for when the person is still alive but incapacitated. It basically allows a person to control your estate if you are unable to whilst living but not dead. Think health issues, degenerative brain diseases, in a coma etc. I have one drawn up. Next of kin can be written into the will. If it's not in your will as someone other than family, NOK will automatically in order be your spouse, parents if alive, adult siblings or adult children. If you are under 18 I believe it's legally your parents. Unless you are over 18 you can't write a will in the UK anyway.

The executor of the will is usually next of kin. The executor is basically a go to person for overseeing the legal elements of the will on passing. An administrator of sorts. It doesn't sound like you have a vast estate so just making NOK the executor makes sense.

On death, Any debts will be taken from the estate. Taking out an unsecured loan is going to cause a real headache for the Executor. They will want to know where the loan money has gone. If there is cash in the estate the executor is legally bound to declare it. You are asking someone to commit fraud otherwise.

I'm guessing you are young-ish and possibly live with your parents? I'm not sure of your age, but your parents will probably end up paying for the funeral so all this is just a bit of a dance. You are creating burdens for people on your death which is unfair. Being executor of a will is a real pain in the ass and can be a lot of time and paperwork. You also have to inform the person that you are making them executor usually the solicitor has to inform them in writing, which will cost you.

If you don't have £1500 for a funeral plan you probably don't have the £500 or so to get a will drawn up and it that's the case, your eligibility for a loan will be fairly low based on income.

I know this isn't really what you want to hear but I'm just trying to give you some realistic advice on the matter so you can make an informed choice.

 

[alexit]

I've thought about this. I best I've come up with is to specify it in my will and say in my suicide note that if they have any respect for me and want honor my wishes, they won't let my mother attend my funeral.

You could also ask for no funeral.

 

[BipolarGuy]

LPA is only for when the person is still alive but incapacitated. It basically allows a person to control your estate if you are unable to whilst living but not dead. Think health issues, degenerative brain diseases, in a coma etc. I have one drawn up. Next of kin can be written into the will. If it's not in your will as someone other than family, NOK will automatically in order be your spouse, parents if alive, adult siblings or adult children. If you are under 18 I believe it's legally your parents. Unless you are over 18 you can't write a will in the UK anyway.

The executor of the will is usually next of kin. The executor is basically a go to person for overseeing the legal elements of the will on passing. An administrator of sorts. It doesn't sound like you have a vast estate so just making NOK the executor makes sense.

On death, Any debts will be taken from the estate. Taking out an unsecured loan is going to cause a real headache for the Executor. They will want to know where the loan money has gone. If there is cash in the estate the executor is legally bound to declare it. You are asking someone to commit fraud otherwise.

I'm guessing you are young-ish and possibly live with your parents? I'm not sure of your age, but your parents will probably end up paying for the funeral so all this is just a bit of a dance. You are creating burdens for people on your death which is unfair. Being executor of a will is a real pain in the ass and can be a lot of time and paperwork. You also have to inform the person that you are making them executor usually the solicitor has to inform them in writing, which will cost you.

If you don't have £1500 for a funeral plan you probably don't have the £500 or so to get a will drawn up and it that's the case, your eligibility for a loan will be fairly low based on income.

I know this isn't really what you want to hear but I'm just trying to give you some realistic advice on the matter so you can make an informed choice.

I don't live with my parents.
I'm 31.

If I took out an unsecured loan to cover funeral costs and paid for things before I died so that the cash isn't in my estate, how would that leave things?

I've thought about this. I best I've come up with is to specify it in my will and say in my suicide note that if they have any respect for me and want honor my wishes, they won't let my mother attend my funeral.

You could also ask for no funeral.

True, I don't have to have a funeral.
Not many people to invite anyway.

Perhaps that's the way forward: just funding a burial, coffin and headstone.

 

[Emily_Numb]

I don't live with my parents.
I'm 31.

If I took out an unsecured loan to cover funeral costs and paid for things before I died so that the cash isn't in my estate, how would that leave things?

I think you need to speak with a solicitor. Your estate will be all of your belongings too. You are trying to find a loophole and I am not able to give you any more advice on this. I am not sure if you can pay for a funeral in advance.

Honestly? You aren't going to be able to get such niche factually correct legal advice on here, so calling or emailing a professional is your best bet so you can be sure. Some solicitors will offer a free phone consultation. Google Will writing service. To be fair if your estate is not complex you might get one for £150 or so.

You're welcome.

 

[BipolarGuy]

I think you need to speak with a solicitor. Your estate will be all of your belongings too. You are trying to find a loophole and I am not able to give you any more advice on this. I am not sure if you can pay for a funeral in advance.

Honestly? You aren't going to be able to get such niche factually correct legal advice on here, so calling or emailing a professional is your best bet so you can be sure. Some solicitors will offer a free phone consultation. Google Will writing service. To be fair if your estate is not complex you might get one for £150 or so.

You're welcome.

Yes you're right, I'm essentially looking for a work around or loophole in order that the people I leave behind don't have to front the bill.

The reality is that I don't think there is such a loophole without asking friends to be complicit in some kind of fraudulent scheme, and that just isn't me.

I think what's more realistic is that I pay for a headstone myself while requesting that I don't have a funeral.
Councils will pay for a basic funeral called a "public health funeral" however.
I guess I could request one of those, or not.

 

[Emily_Numb]

Yes you're right, I'm essentially looking for a work around or loophole in order that the people I leave behind don't have to front the bill.

The reality is that I don't think there is such a loophole without asking friends to be complicit in some kind of fraudulent scheme, and that just isn't me.

I think what's more realistic is that I pay for a headstone myself while requesting that I don't have a funeral.
Councils will pay for a basic funeral called a "public health funeral" however.
I guess I could request one of those, or not.

Yes that's an idea though remember, Public health funerals only cover cremation, not body/casket burials. I used to be bothered about how I would be disposed of in death, but in the grand scheme of it all, it doesn't really matter. But we all have a right to choice (if we can afford it) in this world.

My opinion is you are doing the right thing by not dragging people into mess. Not everyone might agree but I don't think anyone wants that sense of guilt when we might be feeling a tremendous amount already at the prospect of ending ones life.

Bipolar is such a challenge to live with. I understand your pain. I have BP II and BDP. It's such an exhausting rollercoaster. *hugs*

 

[BipolarGuy]

Yes that's an idea though remember, Public health funerals only cover cremation, not body/casket burials. I used to be bothered about how I would be disposed of in death, but in the grand scheme of it all, it doesn't really matter. But we all have a right to choice (if we can afford it) in this world.

My opinion is you are doing the right thing by not dragging people into mess. Not everyone might agree but I don't think anyone wants that sense of guilt when we might be feeling a tremendous amount already at the prospect of ending ones life.

Bipolar is such a challenge to live with. I understand your pain. I have BP II and BDP. It's such an exhausting rollercoaster. *hugs*

From my reading public health funerals cover both cremation and burial.
However, in practice most may be cremations due to cost.

I think it would be easier for me to request to not have a funeral.
I would prefer to be buried and not cremated.

Quite honestly on the day this happens I'm tempted to send an email to my care team, and the CEO of the NHS trust CC'd, telling them that because they failed to treat me they can pay for my burial.
Then just make a Facebook post giving their details so they start getting emails about paying for my burial.

 

[icanhasnick]

How do I go about passing it on to someone I trust?

Cash in an envelope. You mail it to them (as registered mail, or with a courier, or in whichever way you deem very unlikely that it will get lost) right before taking the plunge. By the time it arrives, it's too late for them to attempt "saving" you.

 

[Emily_Numb]

From my reading public health funerals cover both cremation and burial.
However, in practice most may be cremations due to cost.

I think it would be easier for me to request to not have a funeral.
I would prefer to be buried and not cremated.

Quite honestly on the day this happens I'm tempted to send an email to my care team, and the CEO of the NHS trust CC'd, telling them that because they failed to treat me they can pay for my burial.
Then just make a Facebook post giving their details so they start getting emails about paying for my burial.

The chances of you getting a Public health burrial are *extremely* slim. I mean, You have about as much chance if riding a bike to the moon as getting one. If this is something truly important to you then this is not the path to go down. Even on religious grounds it's probably fewer than 1% that get buried. It's done as cost effectively as possible. A burial plot leas can be £1000 in some areas as for 100 years. Council isn't going to pay for that when cemeteries are filling up and space is a premium.

Personally I wouldn't want to cross over, sending out negative energy and emails like that. Care teams *ARE* shit. But this is due to funding, not them as people. I wouldn't want my venom and anger to impact their lives and drive them to their own CTB. No way. Think long and hard about that before you do it, Please.

 

[BipolarGuy]

The chances of you getting a Public health burrial are *extremely* slim. I mean, You have about as much chance if riding a bike to the moon as getting one. If this is something truly important to you then this is not the path to go down. Even on religious grounds it's probably fewer than 1% that get buried. It's done as cost effectively as possible. A burial plot leas can be £1000 in some areas as for 100 years. Council isn't going to pay for that when cemeteries are filling up and space is a premium.

Personally I wouldn't want to cross over, sending out negative energy and emails like that. Care teams *ARE* shit. But this is due to funding, not them as people. I wouldn't want my venom and anger to impact their lives and drive them to their own CTB. No way. Think long and hard about that before you do it, Please.

Another twist in the story:
I have been in contact with a solicitor regarding suing the NHS mental health foundation trust for failing to provide safe and effective care.

I went through the details on the phone with the solicitor and they believe there is a good enough chance of success that they would be willing to take it on a no win no fee basis.

This could potentially cover costs.

Regarding sending emails to my care team and the CEO of the local mental health trust, I was going to aim comments at the organisation and not to them as individuals.
Quite honestly I'm just not sure I care what effect that has on them. Call me cold by all means, but perhaps bringing it home for them is needed.