F

Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
You can read a lot of articles online on slightly hippy websites like psychology today et cetera about narcissists and sociopaths. There is a school of thought that says these words, particular narcissist, get thrown about too easily.

This may be so. However I think there is a real phenomena whereby when we become vulnerable we attract these types of people over and over and over again.

For the first 33 years of my life I never encountered such people. Then when I became physically unwell I was repeatedly targeted by more than one pure sociopath. As a result of a series of unfortunate consequence of events, my physical health worsened, and then my mental health worsened, followed by more worsenings in physical health, all of which just makes you a greater target for such people. I thought I had managed to put it behind me, but was recently targeted by somebody I can see was not a sociopath, but more like a narcissist. Confusingly, such people can have a certain degree of conscience, unlike the pure sociopath.

https://esteemology.com/the-three-p...ip-cycle-over-evaluation-devaluation-discard/

Of course we must interact with such people when we are mentally and physically healthy, but I think firstly, they don't target people who are not vulnerable, and secondly, when we are not vulnerable, we are much less likely to be harmed by them even if they do target us. For example, a psychologically healthy person can escape a short relationship with a narcissist relatively unharmed. He or she will probably never spot that they were in a relationship with a narcissist, they won't bother reading up on it or attach the label to that person. Somebody who is already very mentally vulnerable is much more likely to come to harm In a relationship or interaction with a narcissist or sociopath

I mentioned this to a therapist and she says she sees it over and over and over again. Somebody becomes vulnerable, their self-esteem goes down, and then they are repeatedly targeted by such people.

Some people seem to have had upbringings and families that involve such people – that must be absolutely terrible. My own family were very loving and I was not vulnerable or mentally unwell in my 20s, which is why it is so very striking to me how these people crawl out of the woodwork like earwigs in response to the development of vulnerability.


A year or two ago, when toying with the idea of suicide, I would say to myself I'm not bloody well doing that, because I don't want the bastards who have targeted me to win. F**k them. Later things that happened to me have changed my mind on that a bit.





It is still really bloody annoying when these people win out.


What have others experiences' been? Has treatment by these types of people affected your mental health or desire to ctb?



TL;DR

We don't see narcs and sociopaths when we're mentally healthy, then when we're not it's like someone turned the light out in the woodshed; they all come crawling out of the cracks.
 
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Intheo

Student
Jul 1, 2020
119
I have associated with or even dated people who were narcissistic or sociopathic. Maybe it's because I wanted to be understanding since I know how it is to be mentally ill. Or maybe any affection or friendship is better than nothing. Or maybe I thought it was all that I could get.

I think about it now and the people I hung around were sickening.
 
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Mayerling86

Mayerling86

Faking a smile is so much easier
Jun 26, 2020
41
You can read a lot of articles online on slightly hippy websites like psychology today et cetera about narcissists and sociopaths. There is a school of thought that says these words, particular narcissist, get thrown about too easily.

This may be so. However I think there is a real phenomena whereby when we become vulnerable we attract these types of people over and over and over again.

For the first 33 years of my life I never encountered such people. Then when I became physically unwell I was repeatedly targeted by more than one pure sociopath. As a result of a series of unfortunate consequence of events, my physical health worsened, and then my mental health worsened, followed by more worsenings in physical health, all of which just makes you a greater target for such people. I thought I had managed to put it behind me, but was recently targeted by somebody I can see was not a sociopath, but more like a narcissist. Confusingly, such people can have a certain degree of conscience, unlike the pure sociopath.

https://esteemology.com/the-three-p...ip-cycle-over-evaluation-devaluation-discard/

Of course we must interact with such people when we are mentally and physically healthy, but I think firstly, they don't target people who are not vulnerable, and secondly, when we are not vulnerable, we are much less likely to be harmed by them even if they do target us. For example, a psychologically healthy person can escape a short relationship with a narcissist relatively unharmed. He or she will probably never spot that they were in a relationship with a narcissist, they won't bother reading up on it or attach the label to that person. Somebody who is already very mentally vulnerable is much more likely to come to harm In a relationship or interaction with a narcissist or sociopath

I mentioned this to a therapist and she says she sees it over and over and over again. Somebody becomes vulnerable, their self-esteem goes down, and then they are repeatedly targeted by such people.

Some people seem to have had upbringings and families that involve such people – that must be absolutely terrible. My own family were very loving and I was not vulnerable or mentally unwell in my 20s, which is why it is so very striking to me how these people crawl out of the woodwork like earwigs in response to the development of vulnerability.


A year or two ago, when toying with the idea of suicide, I would say to myself I'm not bloody well doing that, because I don't want the bastards who have targeted me to win. F**k them. Later things that happened to me have changed my mind on that a bit.





It is still really bloody annoying when these people win out.


What have others experiences' been? Has treatment by these types of people affected your mental health or desire to ctb?



TL;DR

We don't see narcs and sociopaths when we're mentally healthy, then when we're not it's like someone turned the light out in the woodshed; they all come crawling out of the cracks.


I seem to have attracted them for a large chunk of my life. Maybe it is because of my mental state. I never looked at it that way
 
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F

Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
I seem to have attracted them for a large chunk of my life. Maybe it is because of my mental state. I never looked at it that way
The reason it's very striking to me is I got through 15 years of adult life without ever encountering any such person, seemingly. Of course I must have met plenty, they just didn't target me. Then after becoming ill I was targeted by them over and over again, either as bullies in the workplaces, or cos they wanted something from me - knowledge, work, sex etc. I have heard other people who became physically ill say "I became a magnet for bullies". it's a bit like that. As if they are predators who smell weakness in others. Low self esteem seems to be the real magnet, worse than physical illness
 
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Mayerling86

Mayerling86

Faking a smile is so much easier
Jun 26, 2020
41
You can read a lot of articles online on slightly hippy websites like psychology today et cetera about narcissists and sociopaths. There is a school of thought that says these words, particular narcissist, get thrown about too easily.

This may be so. However I think there is a real phenomena whereby when we become vulnerable we attract these types of people over and over and over again.

For the first 33 years of my life I never encountered such people. Then when I became physically unwell I was repeatedly targeted by more than one pure sociopath. As a result of a series of unfortunate consequence of events, my physical health worsened, and then my mental health worsened, followed by more worsenings in physical health, all of which just makes you a greater target for such people. I thought I had managed to put it behind me, but was recently targeted by somebody I can see was not a sociopath, but more like a narcissist. Confusingly, such people can have a certain degree of conscience, unlike the pure sociopath.

https://esteemology.com/the-three-p...ip-cycle-over-evaluation-devaluation-discard/

Of course we must interact with such people when we are mentally and physically healthy, but I think firstly, they don't target people who are not vulnerable, and secondly, when we are not vulnerable, we are much less likely to be harmed by them even if they do target us. For example, a psychologically healthy person can escape a short relationship with a narcissist relatively unharmed. He or she will probably never spot that they were in a relationship with a narcissist, they won't bother reading up on it or attach the label to that person. Somebody who is already very mentally vulnerable is much more likely to come to harm In a relationship or interaction with a narcissist or sociopath

I mentioned this to a therapist and she says she sees it over and over and over again. Somebody becomes vulnerable, their self-esteem goes down, and then they are repeatedly targeted by such people.

Some people seem to have had upbringings and families that involve such people – that must be absolutely terrible. My own family were very loving and I was not vulnerable or mentally unwell in my 20s, which is why it is so very striking to me how these people crawl out of the woodwork like earwigs in response to the development of vulnerability.


A year or two ago, when toying with the idea of suicide, I would say to myself I'm not bloody well doing that, because I don't want the bastards who have targeted me to win. F**k them. Later things that happened to me have changed my mind on that a bit.





It is still really bloody annoying when these people win out.


What have others experiences' been? Has treatment by these types of people affected your mental health or desire to ctb?



TL;DR

We don't see narcs and sociopaths when we're mentally healthy, then when we're not it's like someone turned the light out in the woodshed; they all come crawling out of the cracks.
The reason it's very striking to me is I got through 15 years of adult life without ever encountering any such person, seemingly. Of course I must have met plenty, they just didn't target me. Then after becoming ill I was targeted by them over and over again, either as bullies in the workplaces, or cos they wanted something from me - knowledge, work, sex etc. I have heard other people who became physically ill say "I became a magnet for bullies". it's a bit like that. As if they are predators who smell weakness in others. Low self esteem seems to be the real magnet, worse than physical illness
Exactly. Sadly i always end up with them as partners or best friends. So they hide it well at first. Im convinced the man I'm with now is one. But then, how do you break away with someone who has done everything in their power to manipulate amd play games with you? :(
 
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Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
Exactly. Sadly i always end up with them as partners or best friends. So they hide it well at first. Im convinced the man I'm with now is one. But then, how do you break away with someone who has done everything in their power to manipulate amd play games with you? :(
If you think that, please walk away. You can do it. After being targeted repeatedly in other areas of life, I ended up dating one. Even after I realised he wasn't nice (following the initial love bombing phase which was extremely convincing), I did not walk away. I was having fun, I reasoned! I needed some fun! He was great fun! But if your instincts are telling you someone is not a good person, or a narcissist, or doesn't have genuine feeling, please run, don't walk, away from that person, before he or she does you further harm. Sometimes we escape with little damage from such people, but if we are vulnerable already, often we don't escape further damage.

The articles on narcissists (as opposed to sociopaths) describe an initial love bombing phase, followed by treatment that blows hot and cold, designed to keep you off balance and hooked in. Hot and cold treatment by others is always a red flag, I think
 
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Final Escape

I’ve been here too long
Jul 8, 2018
4,348
My mother was a covert narcissist and she would find male partners who were similarly personality disordered. Since these were my models of normal I was predisposed to be attracted to the same types of people. I tended to befriend, attract, or be attracted to similar people. It was not until into my 30's that I figured out that there was a reason my relationships weren't working. Not only were the guys I was getting involved with disordered but so was I. I have the borderline personality disorder.
 
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F

Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
I have associated with or even dated people who were narcissistic or sociopathic. Maybe it's because I wanted to be understanding since I know how it is to be mentally ill. Or maybe any affection or friendship is better than nothing. Or maybe I thought it was all that I could get.

I think about it now and the people I hung around were sickening.
I have read that sociopathy is not a mental illness as such, but instead, it is the way the person is. Narcissism I am not sure about.
My mother was a covert narcissist and she would find male partners who were similarly personality disordered. Since these were my models of normal I was predisposed to be attracted to the same types of people. I tended to befriend, attract, or be attracted to similar people. It was not until into my 30's that I figured out that there was a reason my relationships weren't working. Not only were the guys I was getting involved with disordered but so was I. I have the borderline personality disorder.
I have limited knowledge of BPD, that must be difficult for you. but from what I've read I understand it can relate to childhood trauma and in many cases the sufferers are still highly emphathic. Even if both narcissism and BPD are referred to as "personality disorders".
 
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Mayerling86

Mayerling86

Faking a smile is so much easier
Jun 26, 2020
41
If you think that, please walk away. You can do it. After being targeted repeatedly in other areas of life, I ended up dating one. Even after I realised he wasn't nice (following the initial love bombing phase which was extremely convincing), I did not walk away. I was having fun, I reasoned! I needed some fun! He was great fun! But if your instincts are telling you someone is not a good person, or a narcissist, or doesn't have genuine feeling, please run, don't walk, away from that person, before he or she does you further harm. Sometimes we escape with little damage from such people, but if we are vulnerable already, often we don't escape further damage.

The articles on narcissists (as opposed to sociopaths) describe an initial love bombing phase, followed by treatment that blows hot and cold, designed to keep you off balance and hooked in. Hot and cold treatment by others is always a red flag, I think
I've always been so weak when it comes to walking away from relationships
 
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Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
I've always been so weak when it comes to walking away from relationships
I don't want to project my own situation onto yours, but if you truly believe the person you are with is a narcissist or otherwise not nice, then RUN, don't walk away from them. You can really underestimate the damage these people can do to you if you are already vulnerable.
 
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Marine

Marine

*~ 絶対に 全てを取り戻させてもらう ~*
Jul 5, 2020
678
Both of my parents are psychopaths / sociopaths and I'm starting to wonder whether my first and ironically most susbtantial (though still very short) romantic relationship was with some kind of narcissist.

I've been through life long child abuse, harrasment, medical abuse and other kinds of violence but only his traumatic abandon was the thing that almost killed me.

I didn't have a sense of self worth / esteem to begin with, it started forming while I was living with him, and then utterly shattered into the pit of hell...

I've been trying to convince myself that in spite of never having been loved in my life - I was merely a friend with benefits for him - I'm still worthy of love, I certainly have plenty to share, but it gets hard to believe sometimes.

I too often crash thinking that my trying to fix my life is in vain ( I suffer from bulimia / BED despite being a past anorexic and I absolutely loathe fat) and that I'm just no loveable, not capable of existing...

I often feel like complex trauma is going to get in the way of my life until it's effectively killed me but I don't want to end with a wasted life. Especially after having gotten very close to death yet having been brought back.

I just want to overcome it all but it can't be done alone and I can't seem to create that most susbtantial of bonds which I need more than anything... It feels hopeless...

Any encouraging thoughts ?
 
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so tired or manic

so tired or manic

Arcanist
Jun 12, 2020
462
as someone who has had them around throughout life I've been told it's about what you know. if all you know is people who treat you like shit, it's uncomfortable to be treated as a human. the same reason people don't want to feel happy after only knowing depression for so long. even though different is better, it's still scary and new.
 
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Marine

Marine

*~ 絶対に 全てを取り戻させてもらう ~*
Jul 5, 2020
678
as someone who has had them around throughout life I've been told it's about what you know. if all you know is people who treat you like shit, it's uncomfortable to be treated as a human. the same reason people don't want to feel happy after only knowing depression for so long. even though different is better, it's still scary and new.

For me it's the opposite though ?
It may feel new but definitely way more comfortable and right to be treated well and feel happy.
I actually love change, especially positive change.
 
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so tired or manic

so tired or manic

Arcanist
Jun 12, 2020
462
it's usually a subconscious action. what your thoughts want don't always match with what you're drawn to.
 
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Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
Both of my parents are psychopaths / sociopaths and I'm starting to wonder whether my first and ironically most susbtantial (though still very short) romantic relationship was with some kind of narcissist.

I've been through life long child abuse, harrasment, medical abuse and other kinds of violence but only his traumatic abandon was the thing that almost killed me.

I didn't have a sense of self worth / esteem to begin with, it started forming while I was living with him, and then utterly shattered into the pit of hell...

I've been trying to convince myself that in spite of never having been loved in my life - I was merely a friend with benefits for him - I'm still worthy of love, I certainly have plenty to share, but it gets hard to believe sometimes.

I too often crash thinking that my trying to fix my life is in vain ( I suffer from bulimia / BED despite being a past anorexic and I absolutely loathe fat) and that I'm just no loveable, not capable of existing...

I often feel like complex trauma is going to get in the way of my life until it's effectively killed me but I don't want to end with a wasted life. Especially after having gotten very close to death yet having been brought back.

I just want to overcome it all but it can't be done alone and I can't seem to create that most susbtantial of bonds which I need more than anything... It feels hopeless...

Any encouraging thoughts ?
I have hope for you. It must be incredibly hard to have an upbringing with narcissistic parents and it would only be natural if you would form a relationship with somebody similar. You can overcome this and build up your self-esteem so You attract the right people. And if you do maybe that will be a further boost
 
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Giraffey

Giraffey

Your Orange Crush
Mar 7, 2020
439
@GoodPersonEffed and I had an exchange talking about narcissism in the context of abusive relationships and the paths to recovery on another thread: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/im-slipping-away.42984/

Worth having a quick skin through perhaps.I'll try and post up some resources of my own on there later on as well, perhaps a few self-hypnosis exercises that I use to help build strength and confidence, and to relax and 'switch off'.

I would definitely echo the message that it is possible to recover and move on from an abusive relationship :heart:
 
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Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
@GoodPersonEffed and I had an exchange talking about narcissism in the context of abusive relationships and the paths to recovery on another thread: https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/im-slipping-away.42984/

Worth having a quick skin through perhaps.I'll try and post up some resources of my own on there later on as well, perhaps a few self-hypnosis exercises that I use to help build strength and confidence, and to relax and 'switch off'.

I would definitely echo the message that it is possible to recover and move on from an abusive relationship :heart:
Thanks for that. In my case it's that the stress of working with these people caused various physical health issues and some specific events that happened cos of that caused mental health issues..........it's not that I'm still near these people, I'm completely out of their reach, and I'm clear in my own head on their worthlessness. They just did me indirect great damage I cannot seem to undo.

With others esp if the narcs/sociopaths are family members or ex partners it can be very difficult to "escape" the reach of the person.


I see from the thread you have a child with an abusive ex and I imagine that must be difficult for you and the child, I am sorry
 
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Deleted member 17949

Deleted member 17949

Visionary
May 9, 2020
2,238
I actually don't attract anyone ever so I'm safe
 
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Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
I actually don't attract anyone ever so I'm safe
I was basically talking about being targeted by people in the workplace, or romantic relationships. It can be hard to escape predatory sociopathic or narcissistic characters in the workplace. It's just fascinating how they tend to leave you alone when you're healthy. Having sociopaths or narcissists within one's actual family sounds even worse.
Amazon product ASIN B0050CJNO2
Jon Ronson wrote a humorous but insightful book on psychopaths a.k.a. sociopaths, the terms seem to be interchangeable.

I'm unclear on the precise difference between narcissists and sociopaths. narcissism seems to be a trait that many humans have to an extent, but a true narcissist is a bit more like a sociopath, with habitually exploitative interpersonal relationships and a lack of empathy. Probably a lot more insecure than a full sociopath though

This article is also good

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/empath-narcissist-attracted-like-each-other-opposites-attract-love-sex-relationships-a8176551.html%3famp

What I really want to know is how these people have such an unerring instinct for vulnerability in others
 
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virginiawoolf86

virginiawoolf86

Specialist
Jul 4, 2020
317
Don't let them drain you. They'll take you for all your worth and it still won't be enough.

I'm suffering from schizophrenia and a deep-seeded feeling of death that is getting worse with each day. And still he's the bigger victim. My suffering means nothing.

I had a future. My family noticed I changed after we started dating. Now my life is over and he could care less.
 
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Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
Don't let them drain you. They'll take you for all your worth and it still won't be enough.

I'm suffering from schizophrenia and a deep-seeded feeling of death that is getting worse with each day. And still he's the bigger victim. My suffering means nothing.

I had a future. My family noticed I changed after we started dating. Now my life is over and he could care less.
The one thing I've learnt is if you have any kind of instinct that you are around one of these people get the hell away from them and don't underestimate the damage they can do to you when you are already vulnerable
 
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Alucard

Alucard

Wizard
Feb 8, 2019
606
We are ruled by narcissists, that's why I'm a sociopath.
 
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Worthless_nobody

Enlightened
Feb 14, 2019
1,384
I fully agree with you Op. My life was destroyed by a narcissist sociopath. Me becoming more vulnerable definitely played into this..he exploited my kind once naive nature and ruined me...only to not care and do it again and again and again. I hope he rots in hell for all the pain and suffering he caused me.
 
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Esc9434

Student
Feb 25, 2020
192
Interesting thread. I didn't read everyone's response. I have encountered a few people with personality disorders while being physically unwell. They got the better of me due to me not being about to physically fight at the moment. If I was 100% healthy, then I am certain I could knock out all these dudes except for one who is around 260 lbs or greater. Maybe me knowing their mentally ill, I'm supposed to move on?
 
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Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
Interesting thread. I didn't read everyone's response. I have encountered a few people with personality disorders while being physically unwell. They got the better of me due to me not being about to physically fight at the moment. If I was 100% healthy, then I am certain I could knock out all these dudes except for one who is around 260 lbs or greater. Maybe me knowing their mentally ill, I'm supposed to move on?
Some argue that sociopathy or NPD are not mental illnesses as such, but the way the person is.
I think that's true of sociopathy anyway
I fully agree with you Op. My life was destroyed by a narcissist sociopath. Me becoming more vulnerable definitely played into this..he exploited my kind once naive nature and ruined me...only to not care and do it again and again and again. I hope he rots in hell for all the pain and suffering he caused me.
I really sympathise

mine was ruined by five sequentially. One surgeon who turned out to be a known butcher who'd harmed many, one general dickhead and two sociopaths in the workplace when I was dealing with the post op symptoms resulting in hugely worsened health, then one NPD in a romantic relationship resulting in harm I can't type. I am only amazed I managed to get through so much of life before being harmed by any such people and can only conclude obvious illness and low self esteem makes you an utter magnet for such people. Whether they want sex, money, labour or just torment and gain power over someone weaker...
 
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so tired or manic

so tired or manic

Arcanist
Jun 12, 2020
462
"Some argue that sociopathy or NPD are not mental illnesses as such, but the way the person is.
I think that's true of sociopathy anyway"

that's true of any personality disorder. it's more about having to fix learned reactions then correcting the way your brain ticks. they usually go hand in hand though so there's no black and white.
 
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Sinai Silence

Sinai Silence

I think I'ma die alone inside my room
Jul 6, 2020
810
Being raised by narcissistis is difficult; as a child I expected to be loved and cared for, instead I get abused and neglected.

It has made me a vulnerable person and susceptible to being taken advantage of by others. Although nothing bad has happened for a while I have serious trust issues and isolation is now my punishment for trusting people in the first place.
 
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Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
Being raised by narcissistis is difficult; as a child I expected to be loved and cared for, instead I get abused and neglected.

It has made me a vulnerable person and susceptible to being taken advantage of by others. Although nothing bad has happened for a while I have serious trust issues and isolation is now my punishment for trusting people in the first place.
I can't imagine how hard it must be to actually be raised by these people
 
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Fedrea

Specialist
May 14, 2020
326
We are ruled by narcissists, that's why I'm a sociopath.

Do you think you are truly a sociopath? They are less often suicidal as I understand it, not being particularly prone to self attack
 
I_love_to_bake

I_love_to_bake

Student
Feb 27, 2020
167
Narcissism is humanity in its most complete, final form. It is the inevitable destination.

The breaking of the fellowship, how poetic a name of our downfall. For we drink no longer from each others cups. We feast instead on a supper of our own creation. A supper of disease, poverty, addiction, and pain.

Oh, if we had but only chosen love. It was fear that we worshipped. Fear that we follow every day. Fear that guides us. And it will come to pass that fear will be our companion to the very end.

I hope you all are well, and staying the hell away from narcissists.
 
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