As one wit put it, it's like they all grew up in narcsville USA, all went to narctown university, and all qualified with a PhD in Narcology.
That is hilarious.
Apparently people abused by narcs often then become obsessed.........by narcs, the way they act. As one BBC programmes drolly put it, some people talk about them like they are rockstars or vampires
Jolyon Jenkins investigates whether we're really in the grip of a narcissism epidemic.
www.bbc.co.uk
Supposedly one reason is people can become quite obsessed with narcissistic abusers (particularly in the context of romantic relationships), because the "intermittent reinforcement" gets the brain addicted to the narc, like a drug. When the person finds out about NPD the obsession then shifts to encompass...the subject of NPD. Definitely some truth in that!
But it's also the case that when you realise just how much of the world's mental pain narcs and sociopaths are together responsible for, it's actually rather fascinating in itself. In a horrifying way.
Apols if I'm repeating myself from earlier in the thread, but my prior experience of abusive interpersonal relations had been with three people who were full on sociopaths. These people are easier to understand and sometimes less complex than narcs. They simply had no conscience or empathy, and a high degree of charm. Two were highly aggressive.
Narcs are more complex. Some can display limited empathy. They are far more insecure than sociopaths. Despite their complexity, manifesting as paradoxic nice then awful behaviour........they almost seem to be more similar to one another than sociopaths in their behaviour patterns towards their victims.
MORE NOTES FROM SOME OF THE MANY ARTICLES ON THE SUBJECT
"Narcissists are completely self-absorbed and are oblivious to the wants and needs of others. They enter into relationships in an attempt to fill this void and to make sure that they have someone who is always available for sex, an ego stroke or whatever need they may have. A relationship with a Narcissist always follows three phases, the over-evaluations phase, the devaluation phase and the discard phase.
The Over-evaluation Phase
A Narcissist is very careful when choosing a target. Typically, they will choose a victim based on their status. They must be attractive, popular, rich or extremely gifted in some area. The greater the status, the higher the value the Narcissist places on the Supply derived.
Once a target has been chosen, it's almost like the Narcissist gets tunnel vision. They are hyper-vigilant in their pursuit and will project the perfect image that their victim wants them to be. They are excessively caring, loving and attentive at this stage. They shower their targets with attention, compliments and literally sweep them off their feet.
They place their target on a pedestal, idolize and worship them. Their target is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Here the Narcissist is ecstatic, full of hopes and dreams. They will talk and think about them constantly, they are euphoric. This is as close as a Narcissist will ever get to feeling love. This kind of idolization is what others would call infatuation.
The victim is likely so caught up in all the attention and is usually thinking at this point, that they have found their soul-mate. Their pursuer is exactly what they want in a partner (because the Narcissist is mirroring what they have learned appeals to their target) and they can't believe how lucky they are and that this catch is still single.
What they don't know, or could ever be prepared for, is what comes next.
The Devaluation Stage
The Over-Evaluation phase, if you're dealing with a Somatic Narcissist, usually lasts anywhere from a few weeks to a couple of months, just long enough for the Narcissist to be confident that they have secured their target's love and devotion. Unbeknownst to the target, what they were witnessing in the early phase was the Narcissist's false self. In this second phase, the mask comes off and the Narcissist starts to reveal their true colours.
The shift could be gradual or almost seemingly overnight. Suddenly the attention they so lavishly gave you is gone and replace by indifference and silence. Days or weeks could go by and you won't hear from them. They don't return your phone calls, they don't keep a single promise and you're starting to suspect that they might be involved with someone else. The target is left baffled and confused and wondering what they did wrong to cause such an abrupt turnaround.
Narcissists become bored easily and what usually starts happening in their heads at this stage, is that the void begins to emerge again. The high they were feeding off of is waning and they begin to question your worthiness, that perhaps you weren't so special after all, because if you were then the void wouldn't still be there.
They become moody and agitated easily, blaming you for even the slightest transgression. They start to disappear more frequently and they give you the silent treatment in an attempt to create distance. As the Narcissist withdraws, the target starts to cling and your demands for his attention and your need to understand what's happening, grate on his nerves. The harder you cling the more the Narcissist pulls away. They start to blame and criticize the target for everything, treating them like an emotional punching bag.
At this point the target is an emotional wreck. The Narcissist has left without any explanation and they can't figure out how one minute they were put on a pedestal and now it's like they doesn't even exist. The Narcissist is a projector and they are projecting their emotional turmoil onto you. They feed off of other people's misery (as long as it's caused by them) just as much as they feeds off of your admiration, either way it makes no difference to them.
It is this person, this cruel, indifferent, unfeeling, sadist that is the behind the mask. Most targets desperately try to find the one they fell in love with. What they don't realize is that that person never existed. They were a facade an act put on by the Narcissist to secure their Supply.
The Narcissist will take no responsibility for their actions, because they simply don't care how they've treated you or how you are feeling.
Narcissists are not capable of forming normal healthy attachments to people. Those that aren't familiar with the disorder are completely at a loss to understand how unnecessarily cruel their behavior can be. The target was never more than an object to the Narcissist, whose usefulness is on the decline.
The Narcissist isn't one to throw away a potential piece of supply though. They will keep up this I love you, I love you not charade going for as long as it suits them or as long as you allow it. They will breeze in and out of your life as if nothing ever happened, completely oblivious and indifferent to your suffering.
This mind fuck is deliberate and they will keep feeding you crumbs of attention, just enough to keep you emotionally invested and available to cater to their every need.
At some point one of two things will happen: either they will find a new target and begin phase one with them, thus ignoring you completely, or you will have had enough of his psychotic abuse and you will take control and put an end to it, thus ushering In phase three"
**
"
How to spot a narcissist: Love bombing and the pedestal phase
A relationship with a narcissist starts like a dream come true and ends like a complete nightmare. The worst nightmare you could ever imagine.
…... Engaging with a narcissist (or a psychopath by that matter) is a tricky business and one where you can only lose. These types are dangerous and difficult to spot (I am talking the covert ones, they are master actors.) But the signs are there right from the start.
…… The early stages of a narcissistic relationship – that's where you have the chance to get out before you get too enmeshed. It is unfortunately also the time when the narcissist (or psychopath) is on his or her best behaviour. He is setting up the trap. He really wants to lure you in because at this stage, you are such a valuable source of narcissistic supply.
Everyone who is recovering from a narcissistic relationship tells the same story: At the beginning of the relationship s/he loved me like no other, adored me and worshipped me. S/he was telling me I was the love of his/her life, the soul mate, we were the match made in heaven. The best couple, better than any other couple. S/he would never hurt me. S/he would always love me. S/he would never leave me. S/he was so grateful to have met me. S/he was so dead serious about our relationship, talking about the future, encouraging me to commit….
And then it suddenly ended, sometimes after months, sometimes after a few years. The most loving person in the world as if out of the blue turned into a cruel and totally indifferent jerk.
The above mentioned soul mate game the victims describe is the number one red flag. The beginning of a relationship with a narcissist feels different than the beginning of a normal relationship. It usually starts and progresses much faster and feels more intense. The narcissist is a relentless pursuer at this stage. S/he excessively flatters the target, feeds into the target's deepest insecurities by constantly praising the target's looks, intelligence and specialness. The narcissist creates the feeling that he or she has never felt anything like this for anyone before.
The narcissist usually targets people with low self-respect and weak boundaries. The unloved child – a person that grew up in an emotionally neglectful family – is the most vulnerable target since they crave this attention and love, which they have not received from their parents.
- At the beginning you might not be totally sure about this person but they win you over
Many people recall that at first they weren't totally sure about the narcissist (psychopath). The person wasn't their type, they seemed immature, rude, not what the person usually looked for. However, within a few weeks, the narcissist dispelled all the concerns that the person might have had and emerged as the Mr Perfect, the exact answer to all the target's desires, deep emotional needs and insecurities.
This effect is called mirroring. Narcissists, during the early stages of a relationship view the target as extremely valuable. They might be strongly infatuated (however, this infatuation never develops into a deeper bond, which is why it is so easy for the narcissist to discard the target without a second thought once the infatuation ends).
At the beginning, they feel they need to have this target in their life and will do virtually anything to achieve that. The narcissists operate with what is generally described as the false self – a mask. They sort of study the target and create a mask that exactly mirrors the target's needs. They will be exactly what you want them to be, what you need them to be to get hooked to them. And once you are hooked, you are in trouble.
People frequently describe that in the early stages of the relationship, the narcissist (psychopath) pretends to be interested in the exact same things as the target. Only later do you realise that the proclaimed interest is not really there. It was just something the narcissist pretended to have to increase the illusion of closeness with the victim.
….
6. Weird remarks
The narc (or psychopath) plays a role. He wears a mask. But if you pay attention, you will see the mask slip briefly even during the love-bombing phase. I recall many instances when the narc (psychopath) made some weird utterances that were just not making sense to me. I would always dismiss them but in hindsight, this is when he was sharing some important truths about himself.
Here are some examples:
- the narc has a need to stress that he is the good guy. That should make you think. Good people generally consider it normal to be good and don't have the need to brag about it. To be good is a norm, it's a standard, not an achievement to brag about. The narc's soul is filthy. Being good for him (or her) is not a norm therefore he wants to brag about it.
- I am not objectifying you. This one is quite telling as well. It wouldn't even cross the mind of a normal guy to be objectifying you. The narc sees you as an object. That's what narcs do. They can't do it any other way. But they are trying to persuade themselves, and you by that matter, that they are not doing it"
"I had one relationship and one near-relationship with men who tick most of the items on the standard "Are they a narcissist?" lists.
Signs that I now look for:
Love bombing; charming; moves fast. The most recent guy said he was "hopelessly in love" after knowing me for 4 hours.
Doesn't ask you questions about yourself. This can be hard to see when they've turned on the charm. But if you read through the text chats you've had and think through the conversation on the date, you realize that there were actually no questions about you.
If you volunteer information, they don't seem interested. The most recent guy would literally look off to the side until I finished talking. (Or they appear super-interested, like they're taking notes, which they are, so they can appear to care or use the information later.)
They show no empathy. In addition to showing no real interest in you, they aren't able to see why other people might feel a certain way, or why something they did might upset another person. Any breakups in their past were because the other person was a nutcase / insanely jealous / etc.
They don't communicate clearly. For example, I could ask a simple yes or no question, and the guy would bury me with words that I'd realize later didn't answer the question. You begin to feel like the person is surrounded by fog.
They put themselves in a special class of people. Other people are lower than them in some way. You're supposed to feel honored because they think you're worthy of being with them. They might say that everyone else is jealous of them.
You feel off balance -- intensely attached yet also insecure, when you don't normally feel this way.
They inexplicably disappear and then reappear days or weeks later acting as if nothing happened.
They have no close friends, keep getting fired from jobs, complain about arguments with clients, or otherwise show a consistent pattern of ticking people off. It's always the other person's fault because the other person is stupid, undeserving, etc.
They never apologize, at least in the case of the two men I knew. They might show up with flowers "because you're upset," but they won't acknowledge that they made anything approaching a mistake.
They'll cheat, but because they've messed so much with your head, you'll ignore the signs for a painful amount of time.
They might tell you who they are -- you just have to hear it. Both of the guys I knew flat-out said "I'm selfish" early on, but they said it in a charming, self-deprecating way. But they were telling the truth, and it's a cold, endless selfishness that will completely mess up your head""
"
Question:
Why does the narcissist devalue his Source of Secondary Narcissistic Supply (SSNS)?
Answer:
Narcissists are forever in pursuit of Narcissistic Supply. They are oblivious to the passage of time and are not constrained by any behavioural consistency, "rules" of conduct, or moral considerations. Signal to the narcissist that you are a willing source, and he is bound to try to extract Narcissistic Supply from you by any and all means.
This is a
reflex. The narcissist would have reacted absolutely the same way to any other source because, to him, all sources are interchangeable.
Some Sources of Supply are ideal (from the narcissist's point of view): sufficiently intelligent, sufficiently gullible, submissive, reasonably (but not overly) inferior to the narcissist, in possession of a good memory (with which to regulate the flow of Narcissistic Supply), available but not imposing, not explicitly or overtly manipulative, undemanding, attractive (if the narcissist is somatic). In short: a Galathea-Pygmallion type.
But then, often abruptly and inexplicably, it is all over. The narcissist is cold, uninterested and remote.
One of the reasons is, as Groucho Marx put it, that the narcissist doesn't like to belong to those clubs which would accept him as a member. The narcissist devalues his Sources of Supply for the very qualities that made them such sources in the first place: their gullibility, their submissiveness, their (intellectual or physical) inferiority.
….
Additionally, narcissists simply get tired of their sources. They get bored. There is no mathematical formula which governs this. It depends on numerous variables. Usually, the relationship lasts until the narcissist "gets used" to the source and its stimulating effects wear off or until a better Source of Supply presents itself."
. Narcissists manipulate empaths by stringing them along with intermittent hope. They will integrate compliments and kindness into their behaviour, making their victim believe that if they behave in the correct manner, they will get the loving person back who they once knew"
**
"The person who blows hot and cold thrives on control and equates feeling out of control with desire. They value what they don't have and 'newness', so you're on borrowed time.
When you won't give them the time of day or they don't know if you're interested or they don't know if you're 'buying' what they're 'selling' (read: a relationship and a person that's not actually available), the lack of control makes you very desirable. They get curious.
This lack of control causes them to overestimate their interest and their capacity for a relationship and they do this by Future Faking and Fast Forwarding you through the early stages of the relationship
The promises, the thinly veiled hints about things they see you both doing in the future and the intensity, blinds you to paying attention to red flags and sweeps you off your feet. When you come back to earth, whether it's gradually or sharply, it hurts. Particularly when it's gradual, it can make you feel very insecure because you wonder what you 'did' to 'change' them when in fact, they haven't changed; they've unfolded. In turn, if you blame it on you instead of seeing their shady behaviour for what it is, you'll start campaigning for 'reinstatement' and for the 'win'.
If you don't register the inconsistency and you hang around, the blowing hot and cold will disrupt and confuse you, and actually, you'll become desensitised to getting crumbs and may actually think you're getting a loaf when you're actually on a crumb diet."
***
"You're idealising the narc and you have to devalue and discard him. Reconnect with the reality of who He is not who you wish him to be ie initial false self
You won't ever truly know anything about them because they construct a false self"
***In the devaluation stage there could even be an hour-long conversation which consists mainly of bashing strengths and accomplishment of yours***
***
Finally there is the IPPS. The Intimate Partner Primary Source is the person who suffers the longest devaluation, the harshest devaluation and is the one which is recognised by most people. This happens because
1. You promised to be The One. Your failure to live up to our ideals mean you must be punished, we are not going to let you off the hook easily;
***
"Your narcissist will feel very sorry for him or herself for having to deal with his or her disappointing and lousy family, believing that if only s/he had a better spouse or different children, ones that could deliver, then s/he would be happy. As you observe and experience your narcissistic loved one comparing you to others and feeling wanting, you, by implication, take on the obvious understanding that you are an inadequate failure.
Why do narcissists particularly enjoy the emotions of disgust, contempt, disdain, and envy? Let's dissect the former three emotions first, because they are all quite similar and projected outward in a judgmental way towards other people. Think about when you feel disgusted toward something or someone. Don't you feel that you are in the non-disgusting position, capable of welding the "disgust" label outside of yourself? Don't you feel in some ways above whatever it is you don't like?
Think about the emotions of contempt and disdain for a minute. When you feel contemptuous toward someone, on the one hand you are angry with the target of your contempt, and on the other hand you are superior to that which is contemptuous. The same applies to the emotion of disdain. When your narcissistic loved one is displaying either overtly or covertly the emotions of contempt or disdain toward you, then he or she is obviously in the one-up position, smug and superior, able to impute judgments on you, the target of the projected feelings.
There are probably two main reasons that narcissists so often feel these contemptuous and negative emotions. One, is because someone in their youth (probably one or both of their parents did the same thing to them) projected this emotion on to them, and, in addition, he/she (the parent) "imprinted" this type of behavioral expression of negative emotions onto them (monkey see, monkey do,) which they replicated in adulthood.
The second explanation for this type of emotional display is due to projected shame and rage. The narcissist, incapable of experiencing any depth of vulnerability, projects his/her shame and rage outwards onto certain targets in order to not have to "carry' his/her shame and rage within him/herself. This projection sometimes takes on the form of disdain, disgust, and contempt. Targets, not realizing what is happening, serve in the capacity of garbage dumps for their loved ones projected toxicity.
What role does envy play in the lives of narcissists? It serves as a constant symbolic scapegoat of why narcissists feel so empty. Because narcissist's have an inability to self-reflect, they use over-compensatory coping strategies in order to feel okay about themselves. Envy is a very useful tool because it serves to convince narcissists that their problems do not exist within themselves, but reside in their failing loved ones' inabilities to perform to their satisfaction.
This is why when you are around a narcissist for any significant length of time you feel a deep sense of self-loathing. Your narcissist has unwittingly brain-washed you with toxic shame interspersed with inconsistent bouts of normalcy. Your person does not have to blatantly tell you you're a failure, you figure that out yourself by your inability to make him or her happy and satisfied. After all, if you were sufficient, your narc wouldn't be experiencing disdain, disgust, contempt, or envy.
The dangerous web you get caught up in is the web of thinking that somehow if you can just figure out how to be "enough" for the other person, then he or she will be happy. The first step toward breaking out of this toxicity is to understand that you already are enough"
"This mixed bag of intense feelings stretching from repulsion to attraction is the result of what's called trauma bond.
The distinctive feature of trauma bond is amplified rumination about the past that can take up near 100% of your brain's real estate and hijack your nervous system for months and even years.
The mind churns clashing memories as if they were happening in real time, making it difficult to be present.
Instead of being here and now, you obsess about whether you ex still cares about you, what they might be thinking or doing right now and recycle a list of guilt-inducing what-ifs in you head.
Trauma bond is not love. It's a form of emotional addiction.
Put in another way, trauma bond is the result of being put through a dramatic roller coaster that leaves you craving the highs.
Highs in an abusive relationship will seem exceptionally pleasurable because they are preceded by agonizing fights, deeply hurtful insults and exacerbated fears of abandonment.
It's the contrast of the seething pain that makes the good times with your ex seem so awesome. They are not.
If seen out of context, those breathtaking moments would not be as impressive to you. Your swallowing of their contempt and the ensuing sense of unworthiness you are now feeling is what makes something average and fake feel like a heavenly panacea.
Being in love with a narcissist is like getting exposed to a sneaky infection. Your love, trust and receptivity opened the door for the virus to enter and now you are battling two perceptions at once — theirs and yours. One has to die. Illness and wellness cannot coexist.
The Opportunity in Distress
When such relationship ends, it is usually at the painful stage, or a deep low. There is no more up, no more high. It leaves you in deep pain, craving the antidote, all the while you know you need to walk away.
This is a very tough thing to do.
Just like abuse training conditions you to expect less and less from other people, walking away is the start of a new form of training — that of your emotional and psychological endurance.
You can't learn this in school"
"People with narcissistic, antisocial, histrionic and borderline personality disorder (malignant end of the spectrum) are characterized by a hardened sense of self-importance mixed with an overwhelming drive to act in dramatic-erratic ways that invade the space of others and leave no regard for their needs and even rights.
Being around such people can be highly arousing and addictive. They know how to hide their vices, seduce with their aliveness and intrigue with their cunning intelligence.
Having their attention on you makes you feel like you're basking in limelight. Getting their 'love' can be absolutely intoxicating.
Most people on the erratic-dramatic spectrum know that they are different. And they like it. The idea of "normal" is repulsive to them. Their emotional affect differs from that of people not affected by the disorder.
They have low levels of empathy and don't really care how others feel as a result of their actions. It's not true that all narcissists lack empathy. This form of emptiness primarily characterizes psychopaths.
The average narcissist can empathize. We experience this during the love bombing stage. The betrayal comes when they turn on you. Someone who could care so much suddenly stops caring all together.
But they can put on a good show faking care and affection in a way that's convincing even to a Harvard graduate. Add to it their lack of conscience and sharp mental acumen and you have the makings of a dangerous predator.
Such people's life is characterized by instability and a string of failed relationships, so they need constant supply from new sources.
But because their cognitive abilities are intact and unburdened by the breaks of conscience, they learn early on how to charm others to get their instant gratifications.
Some can get so good at it that to the untrained eye of an empath who wants to believe int he innate good of others, they can appear not only as benign but even as benevolent.
But there is a significant weakness these people possess, which can be the saving grace of potential victims. Narcissists and other Cluster Bs are unable to sustain the illusion of being a caring, understanding, loving person for a long time.
Which is why they need to make their new partner attach quickly and deeply. And they can be quite the pros at this"
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