Article on difficulty of handling suicidal ideation by treatment referrals

[Tintypographer]

The above article discusses the difficulty of finding mental health professionals or connecting suicidal ideation patients to mental health professionals. The article mentions that there are inherent liabilities and risks for therapists and mental health referral services in dealing with suicidal patients.

I have personally tested one of the pointed out algorithms in my own medical plan by selecting that I was suicidal within the last two weeks and I was referred to the suicide crisis line stating that "we feel that counseling with XYZ services is not the best option for you. We urge you to reach out to the national suicide hotline" and gave the number.

This is yet another piece of Evidence that reinforces the reason why populations of suicidal people come here. The primary reasons are not because they were recruited by cults or convinced to die as "Kelli Karen's" continue to state on fixthe26. The reason is that the epidemic growth of depression and hopelessness is too much for mental health services to deal with in the current state.

Mental health professionals don't want to deal with the chronic suicidal ideation patient. We are often unresponsive to conventional therapy or medication, are labeled "treatment resistant" and told to call the crisis center. That circular compounding without a community to share how we feel is reinforcing the need for Sanctioned suicide each time.

My belief is that if the work done to prevent sharing the emotions and feelings of suicidal thoughts were directed at learning the problems and staffing more therapy professionals then we would not have millions of views at sanctioned suicide.

 

[myopybyproxy]

Say it louder for the anti choice wankstains in the back

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

I have personally tested one of the pointed out algorithms in my own medical plan by selecting that I was suicidal within the last two weeks and I was referred to the suicide crisis line stating that "we feel that counseling with XYZ services is not the best option for you. We urge you to reach out to the national suicide hotline" and gave the number.

WOULD THEY STOP WITH THIS SHIT? For FUCKS sake just write up a god damn waiver, or give therapists who have the balls to deal with suicidal patients special legal protections or something and let them do their fucking job. Not all therapists are weak like that, I'm sure a lot of them would get their hands dirty if their entire profession didn't have the chance of blowing up overnight.

There are ways to compromise here but nobodys fucking moving on it. Sick of this nonsense.

 

[Crazy4u]

suicide is not an epidemic. It is a choice and a human right. There is no difference between the right to suicide and the right to bear arms, to abort a child, .....etc. Not having suicide clearly stated as a right in the constitution is the real problem

 

[Noctis]

I've had the same experience. I've tried new therapists, gone through the first interview, and told I'm too much of a risk.

Like, no shit? I wouldn't be reaching out and asking for help if everything was rainbows and unicorns.

 

[Wails]

I think under the system we live in (capitalism), the mental health institutions are just designed to "treat" people so that they can become productive drones in the economy. They can't help people like us, they just want to force us and coerce us into living and suffering. But hey, everything I said here will be dismissed by the mental health experts as depressive delusional rambling.

 

[Tintypographer]

I don't actually know. I tend to think that the reasons for things and processes are strictly for efficiency. If a process is complex and doesn't scale well then no one wants to take ownership of it. Everyone is taught in management, college, business, job training to solve problems and scale them.

If the system that's in place doesn't work or your particular problem is tough to solve it takes enormous time and money to fix.

Consider the legal system. Most traffic tickets or other issues are simple and they can assign process related people to take payment. When it gets complicated with legal interpretation and questions and appeals it can take forever

Broken bones or stitches or a hernia operation are certainly precise and complex but they have an outcome you can measure and a reasonable process to apply to fix the problem.

Mental health doesn't have a visible testable heal. Lining up 100 people in which:

3 out of 10 are depressed

2 out of those three have had suicidal tendencies

there is no magic bullet to fix the problem

one potential outcome is suicide and the person can be treatment resistant

"we have already invested in call centers and mental wellness"

Why don't the depressed people just start responding better?

AND we have to at least appear to be fixing people.eben though we don't know what to do because "suicide is not the option"

And you get what we have now: a situation where the problem is too complex for current solutions and families and normal people absolutely don't want an option to be suicide.

I don't fault someone for their revulsion of suicide. It would be a pathologically psychosis driven person to have a life where they were born interested in killing themselves or others or being happy with that outcome. The survival instinct is too great.

What I do fault is the horrifying effort to leave people with obvious treatment resistant suicidal ideation without any option other than platitudes of call the hotline or "you need help" two things that Kelli of @fixthe26 actually told me on their Twitter feed.

My issue with this is that they WILL NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHOM THE HELP LINES AND COGNITIVE OR DBM THERAPY ARE NOT HELPING AND THOSE NUMBERS ARE INCREASING

I feel that is where the effort needs to be put to slow the increasing rates of suicide.

 

[Hercules]

This is exactly the problem. If someone says they have suicidal thoughts, everyone panics and tells you that you need professional help and to go talk to a therapist. The problem is that the therapist doesn't want to deal with a suicidal person. I read that most therapists don't even receive any training on suicide Idealtion and how it affects people. So, how is someone who is suicidal supposed to get help, when these so called "professionals"won't sit down with them and let them talk openly about these feelings and what is causing them? When they try to get help, they just get tossed around from person to person, because no one wants to deal with them or really help them. If you tell someone you are suicidal, it goes like this:

Your Friend- tells you they can't help you and to call the suicide hotline.
Suicide hotline- tells you to call your therapist
Your therapist- tells you they can't deal with you when you are in a crisis and to go to the ER.
The ER- tells you that they can't help you and to call your therapist or the suicide hotline
Your therapist- tells you you are in a crisis and sends you back to the ER
The ER- gets mad that you are back and tells you to call your therapist or the suicide
hotline.
This cycle repeats itself in an endless loop whenever you try to get help.

 

[9BBN]

Interesting app. Suicide is our last resort, and useless hotlines are their last resort. It's funny and sad.

 

[messy]

It's worth noting that this is specifically about online counseling programs. I'm not trying to defend psychiatry in general here, but it's much, much less likely for a patient to be turned away from face-to-face counseling because they're suicidal. It happens, but it's not policy.

I don't think it's any real answer, ever, to tell someone saying "I'm having suicidal thoughts" to call a 1-800 number, but I can also understand insisting that "IRL"/face-to-face therapy is better equipped to deal with suicide-related issues than someone miles away, talking essentially over Zoom.

 

[9BBN]

It's worth noting that this is specifically about online counseling programs. I'm not trying to defend psychiatry in general here, but it's much, much less likely for a patient to be turned away from face-to-face counseling because they're suicidal. It happens, but it's not policy.

I don't think it's any real answer, ever, to tell someone saying "I'm having suicidal thoughts" to call a 1-800 number, but I can also understand insisting that "IRL"/face-to-face therapy is better equipped to deal with suicide-related issues than someone miles away, talking essentially over Zoom.

Liability is a big influence you didn't mention. I agree it's fair for any app to say "we're not equipped to help you." Point is that's why people come here. And the truth is most psychiatrists aren't equipped to help us, evidently.

 

[Crazy4u]

Liability is a big influence you didn't mention. I agree it's fair for any app to say "we're not equipped to help you." Point is that's why people come here. And the truth is most psychiatrists aren't equipped to help us, evidently.

I agree. I think changing rules about liability would help some therapists and suicidal people. Some therapists may want to help but worried about losing their license. They may also get sued.