Article about sanctioned suicide in vice

[Tintypographer]

People Are Dying After Joining a 'Pro-Choice' Suicide Forum. How Much Is the Site to Blame?

Loss survivors are demanding an end to the site, and provoking a conversation about how little we know about the internet and suicide risk.

www.vice.com

This has been discussed. I am bringing it up again to highlight several points here:

1) people are coming to this site well after they are so depressed that they are suicidal. They don't wander around the internet watching tik Tok and YouTube videos, stumble on here then decide their social and emotional wellness is to be depressed with suicidal ideation. They are depressed and searching for something.

2) an overwhelming number of experiences present views that while on treatment and suicide stopping website forums they are censored when they post feelings is wanting to commit suicide for fear of triggering others. When someone faces a desperate feeling where they either can't or have not been helped by professionals, the moderation of these forums is "you can't be helped here, week professional help"

Sanctioned suicide does not block these desperate, fragile individuals who need a vehicle to share their voice

This is not about encouraging suicide. Suicidal ideation is a condition that affects people and current mental health treatment doesn't work for everyone. The body of evidence shows that the numbers of people afflicted with this condition is increasing. Whether the treatment is perfect and is not embraced or is imperfect and needs to be adjusted, sanctioned suicide can not be considered to be the cause of suicidal ideation nor the promotion of feelings regarding suicidal ideation.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Why are they referring to the website as suicide solution. Sounds like a mock up version in some fictional universe based on real life but not word for word. You know what i am saying. Like a movie that shows search engine that is google but in the movie it is showing as doodle

 

[Tintypographer]

They explain that in the first few paragraphs where the discuss how the author decided to change the name to avoid problems of people specifically looking for Sanctioned Suicide due to the controversy of the article itself and the nature of suicide. I understand their view as a journalist likely has to view the sensitivity of a topic.

 

[Smart No More]

So well worded, OP. Excellently to the point and spot on! Thank you.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

Okay, really? First NYT and now Vice? What a coincidence. I've said it a couple of times already and I'll say it again, none of this is genuine. They're making a move.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Okay, really? First NYT and now Vice? What a coincidence. I've said it a couple of times already and I'll say it again, none of this is genuine. They're making a move.

I agree with you. It is not a spontaneous journalistic curiosity. It very suspeciously look like a coordinated and contrived attack yet again on freedom of expression. Look at what happened to youtube when it got bought by google. They first said they wont interfere with content creation and wont police shit. Now youtube is total garbage. In my language (arabic) there are alot of channels that are targeting young kids in cartoons about sex stories and incest. They are not pornographic but they have suggestive cartoon scenario but the narration is totally porno. I am tired of reporting those channels but they are not doing anything to stop them and I guess because it is in language other than english their smart ass algorthims wont bother to filter through the filth. If you ask me i think they want youth in middle east to be more degenrate. I think it is CIA behind all of this. Fuck this shit the world has become

 

[NumbItAll]

The article is from November 2020 before anyone gets too crazy with conspiracy theories. We are nowhere near as big and important as people like to think. Still a good share though. "Suicide Solution" is a fun rebranding.

 

[Snake of Eden]

The article is from November 2020 before anyone gets too crazy with conspiracy theories. We are nowhere near as big and important as people like to think. Still a good share though. "Suicide Solution" is a fun rebranding.

Silly me. My mind is quick to jump to conspiracy stuff. That being said, illuminati is real i dont care what anyone says 👁

 

[Tintypographer]

The vice article was over a year ago. Interesting, it was not an outright shock and awe condemnation of SS. Which I think is why no one refers to it. The conclusions in it are more journalistic. The doctors and therapists were clear that they don't understand what triggers suicide and they don't know what the clinical effects of a community like this are on suicide causes and people's emotional health.

One doc even stated that there is a direct correlation between having access to the means of suicide and the incidence of suicide. But there is no direct correlation between having access to a forum to discuss suicide and the incidence of suicide.

Those statements contradict the narrative proposed by the "Shut down SS" whcih is "children would be alive if this site was not in existence".

That statement is hard to argue with in a political and public forum because it involves trigger words of children and death.

Who isn't for limiting dead children? Especially politicians looking for something to do that doesn't

I'm highlighting the article because it has experts stating (paraphrased) "we hear that people suffering are looking for a way to talk about their suffering and that they want to commit suicide".

I have personally been subjected to stern warnings, moderation, and barring my account by Kelli and the moderators of suicide forum for 1) stating that I am intensely suicidal and 2) that conventional therapy has not helped me and 3) that I have been helped by sanctioned suicide.

I was then barred.

That made me, a suffering but functional and reasonably intelligent individual, very involved in countering fixthe26 and the narrative.

If I had only been allowed to state that 1) I have been suffering and there are likely others like me who have been suffering, 2) that conventional therapy or hotlines have not helped me and there could be others like me and 3) that a forum that is open like sanctioned suicide that doesn't automatically promote a freeze on discussing suicidal ideationsn, desire to commit suicide and desire to not hear about hotlines or that "I need help" as a broad statement.

Because of that and her direct comments to me I have begun very detaildd work citing statistics, preparing any line of legal and data driven defense that helps senators like John Cornyn or Ted Cruz, whom she got sound bytes from, be able to cite those statistics and data and not really do anything legislative.

I have nothing to lose, I'm not an incel, I'm truly suicidal and will share that with them and I have plenty of experience in data, analytics and research to support policy so I will do whatever I can to counter her because she was directly mean to me.

 

[MammothJack]

Okay, really? First NYT and now Vice? What a coincidence. I've said it a couple of times already and I'll say it again, none of this is genuine. They're making a move.

Vice was the first of the two. It's how I found this website initially.

 

[Smart No More]

I think there's a pretty obvious solution....

Allow euthanasia for people of a legal age. Of course there would be some hard decisions to face and be made to legislate the rules and conditions surrounding its accessibility but that would be the start of an amicable solution. We don't want people to lose their children prematurely or loved ones that may have a chance at improving their quality of life and desire to live it. The problems is the medical system and the general concensus of selfish approach to people dealing with very real and severe suffering. Communities like this and the pitfalls that come with it are a direct result of those failings. Also the pitfalls found here are to be found on any social media platform, its just that here people are easier to prey on because they're in a vulnerable place. It's like shooting fish in a barrel to predators and unfortunately draws a bad crowd. This isn't the fault of the forum so much as the desires of certain humans to take advatage of others weekness for their gain. Sometimes very sick gains.

 

[Tintypographer]

I also think it's a general failure of a lot of industries to admit they can't fix everything:

Education cost increases at near triple digit rates but remains a principal means of reaching middle class income.

Medical costs are bizarre in pricing and servicing and completely opaque but the focus of all healthcare is maximizing profit and determining who pays. Ultimately a patient needs a treatment and must choose a provider with no way to see what the outcome of the contract will be for their finances.

Housing costs are stratospheric where people wish to live for jobs and are an investment protfolio designed to give returns but much effort is designed to maximize the return rather than guarantee housing.

Just three examples. No leader in these industries will say "this is completely messed up and broken and has to be radically changed to begin working". Incentives for leaders today have to be positive and not regressive or wholesale reboots. No one wants to ever admit something didn't work or that it was a failure.

If we look at mental health, there is a failure in something if suicide numbers are rising. Instead of people saying "this is messed up and we need a potential wholesale reboot of many aspects of society, mental health, treatment, communications and the way that people deal with stress and depression"

I live in a world where I have 10 project management calls per day with dozens of people whose very job is to not let anyone off the phone until every single issue wherever it is and whether there is a solution or not must be 100 percent solved and someone must be accountable. And it's the worst aspect of my life ever. The modern era spends all of its effort taking humans and converting them to productivity points and goals to maximize profit and efficiency.


I've waxed into philosophy. The point is that mental health related to suicidal ideation is not perfect and we can't say that this forum is the cause and people are drawn to it.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Man, I remember when we were all worried about this article even though they didn't mention SS directly. Looking back on it, the NYT article makes this one look so much better in comparison.

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

FYI the Vice article is from Nov 2020, so...

 

[Smart No More]

The vice article was over a year ago. Interesting, it was not an outright shock and awe condemnation of SS. Which I think is why no one refers to it. The conclusions in it are more journalistic. The doctors and therapists were clear that they don't understand what triggers suicide and they don't know what the clinical effects of a community like this are on suicide causes and people's emotional health.

One doc even stated that there is a direct correlation between having access to the means of suicide and the incidence of suicide. But there is no direct correlation between having access to a forum to discuss suicide and the incidence of suicide.

Those statements contradict the narrative proposed by the "Shut down SS" whcih is "children would be alive if this site was not in existence".

That statement is hard to argue with in a political and public forum because it involves trigger words of children and death.

Who isn't for limiting dead children? Especially politicians looking for something to do that doesn't

I'm highlighting the article because it has experts stating (paraphrased) "we hear that people suffering are looking for a way to talk about their suffering and that they want to commit suicide".

I have personally been subjected to stern warnings, moderation, and barring my account by Kelli and the moderators of suicide forum for 1) stating that I am intensely suicidal and 2) that conventional therapy has not helped me and 3) that I have been helped by sanctioned suicide.

I was then barred.

That made me, a suffering but functional and reasonably intelligent individual, very involved in countering fixthe26 and the narrative.

If I had only been allowed to state that 1) I have been suffering and there are likely others like me who have been suffering, 2) that conventional therapy or hotlines have not helped me and there could be others like me and 3) that a forum that is open like sanctioned suicide that doesn't automatically promote a freeze on discussing suicidal ideationsn, desire to commit suicide and desire to not hear about hotlines or that "I need help" as a broad statement.

Because of that and her direct comments to me I have begun very detaildd work citing statistics, preparing any line of legal and data driven defense that helps senators like John Cornyn or Ted Cruz, whom she got sound bytes from, be able to cite those statistics and data and not really do anything legislative.

I have nothing to lose, I'm not an incel, I'm truly suicidal and will share that with them and I have plenty of experience in data, analytics and research to support policy so I will do whatever I can to counter her because she was directly mean to me.

I think it's fair to say that many, (possibly each and all) points you raise there fall under the umbrella of failures of humanity and the instinct to exploit other weakness in order for gain.

It'a unfortunate that the professional arena is completely corrupted by the missconception that decency and/or kindness is weakness and therefore you're not a person suitable for your job. However this concept spills into and out of many areas of culture. Mainstream media in particular. However its the fault of mankind that these issues aren't addressed as nobody will stop while they're eaening big money to say, "maybe I don't need all of this money" or "how do I impact others" as they tend to find it easier to believe they're an exception to the rule and it everyone else that is the issue. The exception to that rule is narcissistic people who actually don't give a shit either way and are rife throughout many industries as a result and therefore fule the merry go round. Psych professionals will mostly all agree that this is the case however they seem somehow blind to it at the tail end and prefer to further extend many peoples suffering as, like you quite rightly point out, they don't have a solution and don't know how, and are not inclined to address that as it isn't acceptable behaviour in their profession.

And so it goes on...

However, my original post was aimed more towards those with health issues rather than mental health issues and I think this is an important factor in things as for many there is no chance of improving and they surely deserve to make the choice to die a less painful and drawn out death than they currently face.

Also with regards to any person with suicidal idiation, they may well end up in a much worse situation between their current place and their inevitable end. The one which we all face either way. Often people are forced into a bottle nose situation where their only option is to continue suffering and spiral into worse situations. Homelessness often being their fate and as a result further pushes into underdunded and poorly governed institutions that should be there to help but ultimately just follow a script that further encroaches on a persons personal choices and ultimately often ends badly by comparrison to legal euthanasia. It gets messy for sure and it's really hard to make a choice regarding at which point you allow someone to take that decision but fundamentally, shouldn't it be theirs? Hypothetically I ask.

 

[little helpers]

think I came across that article at one point. read it again and, the fuck was that. anyone in my life might say I'm fun-loving or artistic or whatever. strong, even. I've had many call me strong-willed, say I got a lust for life, yeah. but most don't know the parts of me that's gruesomely ugly and totally unpalatable. parts we bury deep inside ourselves. and never say a damn thing about, for fear of rejection, invalidation, abandonment, and sometimes straight-up mockery. I'm the type of person who doesn't give a fuck. spoke my mind and, well, I have a good reason to be tight-lipped now. now that I know how it gets you wounded.

funny how they made a big deal out of couple teenagers' story like as if teens aren't already killing themselves. just ignore the fact that suicide rate for adolescents is going up each year. and pretend they all lack in judgement and don't know shit. the classic psych ward troupe of "eat your fucking pill or go to capacity hearing". you have the level of self-awareness (and education, even) to know you don't need this drug? you too smart and be causing them problems.

I'm gonna quote myself here.

I have a favorite quote from Heroin Helper, "all people are children when it comes to heroin". that's to sum up the mainstream point of view. and I would not hesitate to say, all people are children when it comes to suicide. to mirror that on format *and* on intention.

most of those journalism shit talk about minors. there is a reason behind that. sensationalism, moral panic, and the holy grail of it all, infantalization.

 

[Smart No More]

think I came across that article at one point. read it again and, the fuck was that. anyone in my life might say I'm fun-loving or artistic or whatever. strong, even. I've had many call me strong-willed, say I got a lust for life, yeah. but most don't know the parts of me that's gruesomely ugly and totally unpalatable. parts we bury deep inside ourselves. and never say a damn thing about, for fear of rejection, invalidation, abandonment, and sometimes straight-up mockery. I'm the type of person who doesn't give a fuck. spoke my mind and, well, I have a good reason to be tight-lipped now. now that I know how it gets you wounded.

funny how they made a big deal out of couple teenagers' story like as if teens aren't already killing themselves. just ignore the fact that suicide rate for adolescents is going up each year. and pretend they all lack in judgement and don't know shit. the classic psych ward troupe of "eat your fucking pill or go to capacity hearing". you have the level of self-awareness (and education, even) to know you don't need this drug? you too smart and be causing them problems.

I'm gonna quote myself here.


most of those journalism shit talk about minors. there is a reason behind that. sensationalism, moral panic, and the holy grail of it all, infantalization.

Agreed. Journalism is dangerously selective in the aim of gaining views/income. Its another industry which is tainted very dangerously by this paradoxical need for constant gain. Greed may be at the heart of it but it gets a bit lost in translation down the line because their are so many talking heads and moving part so the compartmentalisation of it all skews the individuals view as they don't look at the bigger picture.

Many outlets like vice start out with cutting edge honest journalism and then when they run out of sensational content they fill the void with shit like this. I mean, granted its a relatively balanced piece but their journalism overall isn't what it was at the start. What drives me mad is that there is no need. Wait for the news to occur and report it. Don't force yourslef to create content for the sake of keeping a daily stream of entertainment and in the processes lose your journalistic identity and integrity. They even quote buzzfeed ffs. I mean, how low can it go lol.
It does require a complete rehash of things as @little helpers pointed out and unfortunately there is no system for doing so. One thing is clearly certain and that is that governing bodies like to over complicate things in order to meet their needs and preferences rather than the peoples. I question why people get into that line of work and at what point the idialistic types get 'cancelled' and find themselves submitting to punching the clock for the sake of making a living or playing the game they find themselves in.

Humans are imperfect and the emporor has no clothes.