Method Argon not reliable for exit bag?

[Obliviate]

Hey guys,

Any help would be appreciated.
I have resorted to the SN method but the exit bag method is still in the back of my mind. My post down below explains what happen during my failed attempts to set up the technique.

I used argon and some are suggesting that since argon is the heaviest, it may be the reason that the exit bag is not inflating even though my first attempt it did successfully inflate just all the NUMEROUS trials after that did not.

I wanted to know if there was a way that I can somehow make this work without needing to inflate the bag? As long as the argon is coming in while CO2 is expelling? Everything else was working perfectly. I spent way too much money and time on this.

Inert gas method not working for me

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/help-with-my-exit-bag.100453/ So above is my post from months ago of my first attempt at inflating the exit bag(hairband method) on my forehead and it worked perfectly. All of a sudden magically when I'm ready to CTB the method is not working. I have...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Das Nichts]

Any reason you are not going with nitrogen ? From my testing: you need to fixate he bag on your forehead while filling it.

 

[Obliviate]

Any reason you are not going with nitrogen ? From my testing: you need to fixate he bag on your forehead while filling it.

The reason I purchased argon was because it was much more available and easier to get. Gas is very expensive and I have already spent so much money and time on all the supplies. Financial reasons are why. In all my trials, I did fixate the bag on the forehead while filling it.

 

[Das Nichts]

I assume you have checked for rupture.
Did it not fill at all or just to slow ?

I increased the LPM to 40 instead of 15 when I was testing.

 

[Obliviate]

I assume you have checked for rupture.
Did it not fill at all or just to slow ?

I increased the LPM to 40 instead of 15 when I was testing.

I tested up to 3 minutes on some trials and it barely inflated. Where it should atleast show a little inflation in 30 secs and be fully inflated in1- 2 mins. I did 15lpm well technically 30 scfh since I have an argon regulator and it's equivalent. 15lpm is what was suggested in the ppeh. There is no rupture as everything else is working perfectly

 

[Das Nichts]

I tested up to 3 minutes on some trials and it barely inflated. Where it should atleast show a little inflation in 30 secs and be fully inflated in1- 2 mins. I did 15lpm well technically 30 scfh since I have an argon regulator and it's equivalent. 15lpm is what was suggested in the ppeh. There is no rupture as everything else is working perfectly

This of course depends on the size of the bag. Mine are 43x55 cm which equals to 27 litres so it should ne be filled in under two minutes.

I tried with nitrogen and doubled the flow rate to gain a visible inflation.

 

[Obliviate]

This of course depends on the size of the bag. Mine are 43x55 cm which equals to 27 litres so it should ne be filled in under two minutes.

I tried with nitrogen and doubled the flow rate to gain a visible inflation.

Well maybe so. The first attempt was perfect and I used a hairband which required lots of rolling of the bag which meant less space comparing to the drawstring method BUT I tried it again with the hairband method and it inflated a bit but still did not work.

 

[Das Nichts]

I made my bag with the drawstring exit to the side like in the pph 2018. Did you make yours with the exit in the middle, like the doing it with chi video ?

 

[Obliviate]

I made my bag with the drawstring exit to the side like in the pph 2018. Did you make yours with the exit in the middle, like the doing it with chi video ?

Yes I did it like doing it with chi/doing it with Betsy

I made my bag with the drawstring exit to the side like in the pph 2018. Did you make yours with the exit in the middle, like the doing it with chi video ?

So I just did another trial and went up to 5 minutes and raised the flow to 40-45 scfh so 21LPM and it inflated like less than half of the way but nothing like the balloon form it's suppose to be. like it did the first time, really not sure what is happening. I can't waste anymore gas *sigh*
@Das Nichts Do you know how to figure out how much gas I have left in the tank from the pressure that shows on the regulator?

 

[Das Nichts]

@Das Nichts Do you know how to figure out how much gas I have left in the tank from the pressure that shows on the regulator?

Cylinder size (2/5/10 Liter) multiplied by bar) = remaining liters.
e.g 2 liters x 200 Bar = 400 liters
400 / 15 (flow rate per minute ~ 26 minutes

So I just did another trial and went up to 5 minutes and raised the flow to 40-45 scfh so 21LPM and it inflated like less than half of the way but nothing like the balloon form it's suppose to be. like it did the first time, really not sure what is happening. I can't waste anymore gas *sigh*

Like I said, i saw the same in my testing. The bag filled but not the in the balloon form on the pictures.
In the PPeH 2022 (as well als in the old edition) you can see a helium tank on the pictures that shows the bag inflation So that
may make a difference to.

If you can get your cylinder refilled locally it should be much cheaper. Maybe you should retry your hair band method. If this works
the second time it must be that the drawstring does not seal the bag enough.

@GasMonkey any idea about bag inflation ?

 

[GasMonkey]

@GasMonkey any idea about bag inflation ?

Well defined in the PPeH.

 

[Das Nichts]

Well defined in the PPeH.

Like what it's suposed to look - sure. But not what could be the cause of it's not. Otherwise I must have skipped something.

 

[GasMonkey]

If the bag is not inflating while receiving a flow of gas it has a leak.

 

[Das Nichts]

If the bag is not inflating while receiving a flow of gas it has a leak.

The most probable cause for sure. Hell if i can find the motivation I will just try this out of curiosity.

With an a/b comparison utilizing this partner in crime

 

[GasMonkey]

Air cylinder + air regulator + flow meter is the ideal way of testing an ExitBag, if it is correctly crafted you would be able to breath inside it for minutes (that was what EXIT International used to determine the optimal flow rate), but this test bench would be so expensive that is better to just buy the EEBD kit or SCBA. xd​

 

[Das Nichts]

Air cylinder + air regulator + flow meter is the ideal way of testing an ExitBag, if it is correctly crafted you would be able to breath inside it for minutes (that was what EXIT International used to determine the optimal flow rate), but this testing bench would be so expensive that is better to just buy the EEBD kit or SCBA. xd​

You know I'm one of the scba converts myself

In theory it's all sound but like I said I was also not able to achieve the balloon like inflation.

Also why waste inert gas when normal pressure air would be sufficient for a rupture check ?!

 

[Obliviate]

If the bag is not inflating while receiving a flow of gas it has a leak.

I tested like 20+ exit bags, the chance of ALL of them having a leak is very unlikely, it inflated a bit and I could hear the crinks of the bag being inflated but for some reason the drawstring method just doesn't work with it, the only success I had with the balloon form was the hairband method with my very first trial.

@Das Nichts I tried it anyways yesterday to see if I would come close to losing consciousness and put the bag down on my face/head after filling it for 5 minutes. I was probably in there for 20-30 seconds, just felt really dizzy and nauseous, afterwards too.
I give up anyways I have my meto now, SN it is! I still have maybe less than half the tank left but it's no use if all the gas will go to testing.

 

[jojointhebus]

I tested like 20+ exit bags, the chance of ALL of them having a leak is very unlikely, it inflated a bit and I could hear the crinks of the bag being inflated but for some reason the drawstring method just doesn't work with it, the only success I had with the balloon form was the hairband method with my very first trial.

@Das Nichts I tried it anyways yesterday to see if I would come close to losing consciousness and put the bag down on my face/head after filling it for 5 minutes. I was probably in there for 20-30 seconds, just felt really dizzy and nauseous, afterwards too.
I give up anyways I have my meto now, SN it is! I still have maybe less than half the tank left but it's no use if all the gas will go to testing.

I also tried with a bag of argon yesterday. But I think there is something wrong with your setup or preparation.
With a 40*55 cm plastic bag it took me barely 1min to inflate the whole bag to 15LPM. This leaves time to do 30s to 1min of hyperventilation.
Once in the bag I would say that in hardly 10 or 15 sec I started to faint, I removed the bag at this moment because I did not have the strength. But it was in no way because of a lack of air or an unpleasant sensation.

I admit that after removing the bag I felt a nauseous sensation, but I think that if I had fainted completely I would not have felt anything (even if I am not 100% sure). And I also think that the alcohol and the stress played on this effect of nausea

I would advise you to do some tests with soapy water because with the number of bags you used I don't think the problem is the bag, also check that your hose is letting all the air through properly.

 

[Obliviate]

I also tried with a bag of argon yesterday. But I think there is something wrong with your setup or preparation.
With a 40*55 cm plastic bag it took me barely 1min to inflate the whole bag to 15LPM. This leaves time to do 30s to 1min of hyperventilation.
Once in the bag I would say that in hardly 10 or 15 sec I started to faint, I removed the bag at this moment because I did not have the strength. But it was in no way because of a lack of air or an unpleasant sensation.

I admit that after removing the bag I felt a nauseous sensation, but I think that if I had fainted completely I would not have felt anything (even if I am not 100% sure). And I also think that the alcohol and the stress played on this effect of nausea

I would advise you to do some tests with soapy water because with the number of bags you used I don't think the problem is the bag, also check that your hose is letting all the air through properly.

I checked every factor, everything was working perfectly. Regulator, cylinder is fine, and the gas is coming out of the tube fine. Not sure what the issue is.

 

[Das Nichts]

I checked every factor, everything was working perfectly. Regulator, cylinder is fine, and the gas is coming out of the tube fine. Not sure what the issue is.

For what kind of bags die you go for ? I think the ones in the doing it with chi video might be to sturdy to inflate.
I got the oven bags which are more thinner but wrinkly. A standard garbage bag would probably inflate the best.

 

[Obliviate]

For what kind of bags die you go for ? I think the ones in the doing it with chi video might be to sturdy to inflate.
I got the oven bags which are more thinner but wrinkly. A standard garbage bag would probably inflate the best.

I tried two brands of oven bags. This technique although sounds great in theory is just too annoying, not hard but technical.

 

[Vizzy]

For what kind of bags die you go for ? I think the ones in the doing it with chi video might be to sturdy to inflate.
I got the oven bags which are more thinner but wrinkly. A standard garbage bag would probably inflate the best.

Hi is turkey oven bag any good ?

 

[Das Nichts]

I tried two brands of oven bags. This technique although sounds great in theory is just too annoying, not hard but technical.

I got myself another type of bags and will do another inflation Test to see if that makes a difference.

I still think it's the gas though. Also makes sense since helium is the lightest.

 

[Das Nichts]

Hi is turkey oven bag any good ?

The turkey bags are light but quite sturdy. The only downside is they make some noise because it's much like
cellophane wrap.

 

[Vizzy]

The turkey bags are light but quite sturdy. The only downside is they make some noise because it's much like
cellophane wrap.

So which one you recommend?

 

[Das Nichts]

So which one you recommend?

Haven't tested the others yet so I don't can recommend anything.

 

[Vizzy]

Haven't tested the others yet so I don't can recommend anything.

Let me know if you find any, thank you

 

[Obliviate]

I got myself another type of bags and will do another inflation Test to see if that makes a difference.

I still think it's the gas though. Also makes sense since helium is the lightest.

It's just so odd. It inflated when doing the hairband exit bag technique ONCE but not the other 20 drawstring chord exit bag technique. So frustrating. I thin I've seen one other post here where argon was used for an exit bag and it worked for them. nitrogen would be the best bet since it's available and lighter than argon.

 

[Das Nichts]

It's just so odd. It inflated when doing the hairband exit bag technique ONCE but not the other 20 drawstring chord exit bag technique. So frustrating. I thin I've seen one other post here where argon was used for an exit bag and it worked for them. nitrogen would be the best bet since it's available and lighter than argon.

If the hairband is the only thing different in all your tests it can only be that the drawcord does not seal as much and gas is leaking out.

 

[Obliviate]

If the hairband is the only thing different in all your tests it can only be that the drawcord does not seal as much and gas is leaking out.

It's so weird, even when I did it very tight with the drawstring. I mean I'm not gonna do the gas method anymore because can't afford it rn but I don't mind sharing my experience. It seems people are succeeding with SN