So- nothing all that new in this thread again I'm afraid... Just a whole lot of rambling thoughts around assisted suicide in the context of mental illness...
A comment by @ksp in a thread yesterday got me thinking about all this stuff again:
'by making nembutal illegal, the main problem is that society is imposing a subjective value of life'
I thought about this and had to agree with it. It IS the fact that our lives are 'supposed' to be seen as valuable and therefore need to be protected (by governments/society) that we are not allowed to kill each other- obviously a good thing (although we seem to make exceptions in war/capital punishment/abortion etc) and the powers that be don't seem keen on letting us kill ourselves either. (For the most part.)
So yes- regarding so heavily restricting or outright denying assisted suicide, on the face of it- this is an infringement of our free will and autonomy. While I personally don't feel Nihilism is a fact that ought to be applied to everyone, I think it is a perfectly reasonable point of view for an individual to have. The idea that life is valuable intrinsically is based on things like religion- which isn't compulsory these days. Everything else is opinion.
I thought about it some more- considering how much we as a race seem to put so much value on the freedom and power of individual choice. (Or at least, I think we all like to believe the illusion that we have that power.)
The only thing I could fall back on as to why we are not rationally/morally being given this choice (ignoring all the other religious/economical opposition) is just that- rationality... If you start boring yourself reading articles on the motivation behind suicide, chances are, it won't be long before you stumble on the subject of mental health and depression.
There definitely seems to be an assumption that if you are suicidal, you are depressed. If you are depressed, you are too emotional and your thinking has become too distorted to think rationally. So basically- there is this idea that- 'no- we won't let you have or do this because you have an illness which has distorted your view of the world... (and we can fix it!)
Like I say- I know this topic has been covered many times before. I suppose it is the one major hurdle I see though preventing a lot of people getting access to assisted suicide in the future.
It's a weird one though. In some cases- maybe it would/will do us a favour. They're never likely to agree with our point of view of the world. Still- if a person is 'treatment resistant'- presumably- they are beyond all help and ought to be given as much sympathy as someone with a terminal illness?
I suppose my selfish concern is for people like me. I have neither terrible physical or mental illness (as far as I'm aware...) I just don't think life is worth it! I sort of have to wonder if someone like me would ever be eligible for it...
Anyhow- after reading one of these articles, I picked up very strongly this idea of emotional turmoil. That the suicidal person was simply in too much emotional anguish that it destroyed their ability to think clearly... So- that's why I made the poll.
What is it primarily that drives your desire to CTB? Is it a deep and unrelenting sadness? Is it more of a thought out approach that you simply don't think life is worth it? I'm guessing most likely- it's a mixture of the two...
Of course, I fully realise the futility of all this. Even if someone was to say their reasons for wanting to CTB were entirely logical or reasoned, the 'normies' I suspect would still argue that depression had simply skewed that person's view of the world.
Of course- the other argument is that there is no such thing as mental illness. It is simply a reasonable reaction to living a shit life to feel like this. Why should I feel the obligation to enjoy life anyway?!!
Seeing as no government/corporation/ society wants to share the money to perhaps make people's lives slightly less shit, it's terribly convenient for them to say: 'If you're deeply unhappy with the world we have created and your prospects in it- you're just plain crazy.'
Realistically then- I don't see all that much changing with regards to the mentally 'ill's' access to assisted suicide. In order for this 'deviant' to get their wish, either they will need to confirm that the patient can't be 'cured' to think 'normally,' or, they will have to admit that in some cases, there is no mental illness present but neither can they do anything for the person to improve their situation.
As I said, a long meandering thread that didn't really say anything new! Thank you if you got to the end. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...
A comment by @ksp in a thread yesterday got me thinking about all this stuff again:
'by making nembutal illegal, the main problem is that society is imposing a subjective value of life'
I thought about this and had to agree with it. It IS the fact that our lives are 'supposed' to be seen as valuable and therefore need to be protected (by governments/society) that we are not allowed to kill each other- obviously a good thing (although we seem to make exceptions in war/capital punishment/abortion etc) and the powers that be don't seem keen on letting us kill ourselves either. (For the most part.)
So yes- regarding so heavily restricting or outright denying assisted suicide, on the face of it- this is an infringement of our free will and autonomy. While I personally don't feel Nihilism is a fact that ought to be applied to everyone, I think it is a perfectly reasonable point of view for an individual to have. The idea that life is valuable intrinsically is based on things like religion- which isn't compulsory these days. Everything else is opinion.
I thought about it some more- considering how much we as a race seem to put so much value on the freedom and power of individual choice. (Or at least, I think we all like to believe the illusion that we have that power.)
The only thing I could fall back on as to why we are not rationally/morally being given this choice (ignoring all the other religious/economical opposition) is just that- rationality... If you start boring yourself reading articles on the motivation behind suicide, chances are, it won't be long before you stumble on the subject of mental health and depression.
There definitely seems to be an assumption that if you are suicidal, you are depressed. If you are depressed, you are too emotional and your thinking has become too distorted to think rationally. So basically- there is this idea that- 'no- we won't let you have or do this because you have an illness which has distorted your view of the world... (and we can fix it!)
Like I say- I know this topic has been covered many times before. I suppose it is the one major hurdle I see though preventing a lot of people getting access to assisted suicide in the future.
It's a weird one though. In some cases- maybe it would/will do us a favour. They're never likely to agree with our point of view of the world. Still- if a person is 'treatment resistant'- presumably- they are beyond all help and ought to be given as much sympathy as someone with a terminal illness?
I suppose my selfish concern is for people like me. I have neither terrible physical or mental illness (as far as I'm aware...) I just don't think life is worth it! I sort of have to wonder if someone like me would ever be eligible for it...
Anyhow- after reading one of these articles, I picked up very strongly this idea of emotional turmoil. That the suicidal person was simply in too much emotional anguish that it destroyed their ability to think clearly... So- that's why I made the poll.
What is it primarily that drives your desire to CTB? Is it a deep and unrelenting sadness? Is it more of a thought out approach that you simply don't think life is worth it? I'm guessing most likely- it's a mixture of the two...
Of course, I fully realise the futility of all this. Even if someone was to say their reasons for wanting to CTB were entirely logical or reasoned, the 'normies' I suspect would still argue that depression had simply skewed that person's view of the world.
Of course- the other argument is that there is no such thing as mental illness. It is simply a reasonable reaction to living a shit life to feel like this. Why should I feel the obligation to enjoy life anyway?!!
Seeing as no government/corporation/ society wants to share the money to perhaps make people's lives slightly less shit, it's terribly convenient for them to say: 'If you're deeply unhappy with the world we have created and your prospects in it- you're just plain crazy.'
Realistically then- I don't see all that much changing with regards to the mentally 'ill's' access to assisted suicide. In order for this 'deviant' to get their wish, either they will need to confirm that the patient can't be 'cured' to think 'normally,' or, they will have to admit that in some cases, there is no mental illness present but neither can they do anything for the person to improve their situation.
As I said, a long meandering thread that didn't really say anything new! Thank you if you got to the end. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...
