Are you fighting a losing battle by going against the system?

[Dmoore3232]

yes

 

[Linda]

Why did some of them ctb to avoid getting captured? To avoid being hanged? If he got captured do you think he would have gotten hanged? Why did others not ctb? Some even got locked up in prison. I heard that one actually deserved to be hanged but instead got 20 years. He basically got away with war crimes

You would be good working alone behind enemy lines. You have the personality and the mental strength for it. (You don't have the necessary practical skills, of course, but those would easily be acquired with the appropriate military training.)

 

[losing hope]

Why did some of them ctb to avoid getting captured? To avoid being hanged? If he got captured do you think he would have gotten hanged?

Yes they ctb'ed to avoid being publically embrassed at the Nuremberg trials. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials

Why did others not ctb? Some even got locked up in prison. I heard that one actually deserved to be hanged but instead got 20 years. He basically got away with war crimes

The others didn't ctb as they hoped they wouldn't suffer hanging, or would be released from Jail during their lifetime or escape etc. The main exception was this fella; https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Göring who used to Numremberg trials to promote Nazi idealogdoy and then ctb'ed I think as he was being sentenced?

Simliar to Edward Le Clair https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/edward-leclair-killed-himself-court-sodium-nitrite

 

[Old Friend]

It's cheating the hangman. They're gonna die anyway but they'll do it on their own terms.

Also, a lot of senior Nazis, like Goring, objecting to hanging as that was for "common criminals", not senior officers in a war.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Yes they ctb'ed to avoid being publically embrassed at the Nuremberg trials. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials

100% victor's justice! The outcome was clear even without a process.

 

[sserafim]

Yes they ctb'ed to avoid being publically embrassed at the Nuremberg trials. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials

I would hate to be publically embarrassed. That's like my worst fear lol

yes

Why do you say so? What do you suggest I do instead?

 

[tbroken]

You don't win battles by being angry. Anger is very valuable, but only because it provides the initial motivation to make change happen. Once you have got started, you must switch the anger off as best you can - it will get in the way - and then proceed using rationality, logic, and good planning.

It is true, i felt this way in my life.

 

[sserafim]

How are you rebelling against the system? Whats the concrete actions?

By refusing to participate in it. Work is modern day slavery. I refuse to become a slave to the system. I won't be exploited

 

[Jiyuurakka]

My mom said that I'm always fighting and going against the world. She said that it must be really tiring and taxing to be in constant opposition with everything. Is it better to surrender and give in? Maybe I should just go with the flow. There must be a reason as to why the system works and how there hasn't been a revolution yet. I heard that the most successful people make the system work for them.

All of us are in a natural state of rebellion purely by existing in the World. Even by going with the flow of the World, you're being rebellious by intentionally going with the flow because you believe that that is the best way to rebel against the World. I have this intuitive feeling that all human made institutions are set up to collapse, and all of us are just heading in the natural path where the system we're in will implode. Its imploding right now in fact. Are we fighting a losing battle by going against the system? Well, all of us are a product of the system and many people are becoming aware that the system is shit. So the system is progressively going against itself as time goes on, I'd say we're fighting a battle that is destined to only win.

There is this Doomsday Clock that is maintained by an organisation called the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. The closer the clock is to striking midnight, the closer we are to basically destroying the World. The closest we've been to striking midnight was back in 1953 during the height of nuclear weapon development when the clock was 2 minutes from striking midnight. The farthest it was from striking midnight was 17 minutes back in 1991 when the cold war came to a close. Right now in 2024, its only 90 seconds from striking midnight. We're inching closer and closer to self destruction by neglecting human rights issues, climate change, and global wars and conflicts. All human systems are designed to end itself in time because after all, we're human, we are the rebellion against the World manifest. If we're all suicidal in nature, of course even our systems are suicidal in nature.

 

[derpyderpins]

There must be a reason as to why the system works and how there hasn't been a revolution yet.

This is going to be a little dark for a metaphor, but think about actual physical slavery. There certainly is fictional media with a setup similar to the following:

You have one slave master and then, say, a dozen strong men. Why don't they overpower him? They've been broken, one at a time, until the idea of revolting is no more. On one side, they know pain is waiting for them if they disobey, and on the other, comfort is given if they comply. Sure, it may be awful conditions if you stop and think about it, but the slavemaster makes the alternative far worse. The comfort of their degrading living conditions is at least absent the active pain of the alternative. Now, you've got your dozen slaves who all have their spirits broken. They're working, and one of them finally has enough. He's been thinking about it, and this is bullshit. He tries to fight the slavemaster, who has some sort of weapon or something so he just hurts the slave. The others all sit there watching. Logically, they could revolt, but they're paralyzed by fear. Now, the one who had the spirit to rebel is broken, too, because he realized no one will help him.

In the movie, there will be some cool revolution event where the slaves finally all come together and the slavemaster gets what's coming to him. Real life . . . can be disappointing.

Modern slavery is much more subtle, but it is a similar theory. Sure, even though technological developments over the past century have been insane, and we can be 10x+ more productive, we have to work the same, or even a little more. Your dollar doesn't go as far. Prices are up. Rent is up. Wages stagnate. . . Infrastructure is crumbling. You don't feel as safe on your city streets, and you don't trust the police who should make you feel better. You can bet your ass they'll start beating you in a heartbeat if you step too far out of line.

but . . . you've got a couch and Netflix. You know what revolution is? Pain. You might get hurt. It will be hard. You may be fighting for what is right, but considering only your own comfort it is a far worse alternative to going along to get along, as you may end up with nothing, or in prison. Like you said, maybe even take advantage of people who are fed up with the system.

After all, you've suggested revolution before, or made your own displays of defiance to someone who held authority over you, and rather than getting support, you got vacant stares by the people around you. You know damn well that if they would just join you, if they could grow the courage to stand up, you could make change. . . but after so many beatings most people stop trying. That's why there's no revolution and why I've become pretty damn black-pilled on society.

 

[LifeIsCrazyNemb]

By refusing to participate in it

The simple fact that you dont have a job doesnt mean that you are not participating. In the end, your family has to provide you with money and food, so you are somehow part of the system.

Rebelling the system is something deeper than that, it requires concrete actions, engagment in a way that produces some meaningful impact in the system.

I dont think that just being home doing nothing is rebelling.

 

[sserafim]

The simple fact that you dont have a job doesnt mean that you are not participating. In the end, your family has to provide you with money and food, so you are somehow part of the system.

Rebelling the system is something deeper than that, it requires concrete actions, engagment in a way that produces some meaningful impact in the system.

I dont think that just being home doing nothing is rebelling.

How do you truly rebel then?

 

[Linda]

By refusing to participate in it. Work is modern day slavery. I refuse to become a slave to the system. I won't be exploited

You are participating. Where do you think the computer or phone on which you are typing your message came from? What do you think installed all the wires and optical fibers criss-crossing the planet that bring the message from your device to my screen?

You can indeed refuse to participate. But you might find living half naked in a cave in the middle of nowhere, and eating only what you can catch, to be rather less congenial than your present life of consuming the products of the system that you claim not to participate in.

At the moment, the only exploitation I can see is that you are exploiting your parents, who have had to work to provide the things that you consume and take for granted. That's not high minded at all.

How do you truly rebel then?

You get out there and you start chipping away at the foundations of society. You don't do it alone. As someone remarked in an earlier post, you team up with other people who have similar goals. (You can achieve some things alone, but usually the effects will be local. That's not a bad thing if a million other people are also working locally, but to even make that start to happen requires some teamwork.)

 

[losing hope]

How do you truly rebel then?

IMO The best way to rebel is to expose people / destory their reputation, ego & status etc. I hate the guy, but Nigel Farage is doing a great job of "rebelling" in the last 30 years against mainstream UK political parties like the Tories; https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/othe...1&cvid=9089c56746064a10bf7023a58aa90a80&ei=26

I mean you even said yourself....

I would hate to be publically embarrassed. That's like my worst fear lol

The only exception to the above rule is Buddists (whom I now consider myself one of). Because to become a buddist, you need to get rid of your ego.

 

[Dmoore3232]

Why do you say so? What do you suggest I do instead?

I was saying I am.

I think you should try to find a job you like if you haven't already. Then live in a country you like if you don't like the USA, this is why I plan on leaving the USA. Governments are corrupt, it is the era we live in. So it is best to live in a country where you have a lot of freedom.

 

[Old Friend]

How do you truly rebel then?

I don't think I was ever intentionally a rebel. I know it's cool these days to say you don't conform to various mainstream things but with me, I just couldn't keep up pretending to care about things I wasn't interested in. I used to wish I was more popular but I could never keep up the effort in pretending to be into whatever the latest fad was that week. These days, I just don't care.

 

[LifeIsCrazyNemb]

How do you truly rebel then?

As for eveything is life, there is no pre-made recipe.

This exactly question you pose me, you could ask yourself and maybe you can turn your life's purpose as a quest for this answer.

Maybe your life could have a meaning if you really pursue the answer for this question: "how to truly rebel the system?"

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Unfortunately so. You either have to go with the system or you have to CTB. There's no way around it

It's a losing battle to hope that the system can change because power increases with numbers and the number of people who don't want to rebel against the system is extremely high. Also, there can be consequences against you if you rebel such as having the risk of being fired

If you want to stay within the system (i.e. stay alive), you have to go with the flow. I don't really know how to profit from the system but feel free to find ways if you want to exist with the system

In my case however, I don't really want to flow with the system and I don't really have the skills to be at the top of the capitalist food chain so I know that I'll have to be a wage slave for the rest of my life. Hence, in my case, I prefer to ctb over abiding with the system. However, you can choose whatever you wish but all I can say is that I hope you don't make a choice that you will regret. People here are acting like you could get away from wage slaving by owning a business but I wonder just how many people tried and failed. It always seems like those who actually succeed are in a minority but, hey, it's up to you I guess. It's nice to be realistic though

 

[losing hope]

I've just asked Chat GPT "How do you truly rebel then?" who said this,,,

Truly rebelling involves challenging the norms, systems, or expectations that you believe are unjust, restrictive, or simply don't align with your values. Here's a guide on how to truly rebel:

1. Identify what you're rebelling against: Before you rebel, it's essential to clearly understand what you're rebelling against. It could be societal norms, oppressive systems, unjust laws, or anything else that you find unacceptable.
2. Educate yourself: Knowledge is power. Educate yourself about the issue you're rebelling against. Understand its history, context, and implications. This will help you articulate your arguments and make informed decisions.
3. Define your values: What do you stand for? Define your principles and values that guide your actions. This clarity will help you stay focused and determine the direction of your rebellion.
4. Choose your battles: You can't fight every battle. Choose your battles wisely based on your values, resources, and the impact you want to make. Focus on issues that matter most to you and where you believe you can make a difference.
5. Take action: Actions speak louder than words. Take concrete actions to challenge the status quo. This could involve peaceful protests, civil disobedience, advocacy, organizing, or any other form of activism that aligns with your values and goals.
6. Build coalitions: You're not alone. Find like-minded individuals and organizations who share your concerns and goals. Collaborate with them to amplify your voices and increase your impact.
7. Be persistent: Change doesn't happen overnight. Stay committed to your cause and be prepared for setbacks and challenges along the way. Persistence is key to making a lasting impact.
8. Be open to dialogue: While rebelling often involves confronting existing power structures, it's also important to engage in constructive dialogue with those who hold different views. Dialogue can foster understanding, build bridges, and create opportunities for change.
9. Take care of yourself: Rebelling can be emotionally and physically draining. Remember to take care of yourself and seek support when needed. Self-care is essential for sustaining your energy and passion for the long haul.
10. Evaluate and adapt: Reflect on your actions and their outcomes. Evaluate what worked well and what didn't. Be willing to adapt your strategies and tactics based on feedback and changing circumstances.

Remember, true rebellion is not just about defiance for the sake of defiance. It's about challenging injustice and striving for a better world based on your values and principles.

This also might provide food for thought; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_suicide

 

[Camper]

My mother used to say the exact same thing to me. Eventually, I realized that she simply just didn't like me challenging her constantly (or at all) and those types of comments stopped. To be fair, I can see why she didn't like me calling her out constantly. But I never started to agree with her.

Anyway, I don't think having a strong sense of morals/values is a trait that you need to discard. I don't think you can even discard it. If you're anything like me, then it'll be frustrating, especially once you realize how uncritically other people look at things. There are individuals out there that are honest-to-God sheeple. But don't let that fool you, as we all have beliefs that we're unwilling to question. This isn't a bad thing necessarily, as we all need a foundation of values to work off of. But be aware of it.

Another user stated that anger is only useful as initial motivation to start doing something, but is harmful after that point. I don't agree with this sentiment. Anger can always be utilized for good, if the energy is put in the right direction. The real issue is hate. I'd strongly suggest always choosing to focus on the love you have for what you're fighting for, instead of the hatred you have for whatever you're fighting against. It'll help you keep your momentum far easier.

I'm about to finish my BA in a conventional field, so that I can get a normal job. But I use my free time to study the philosophical, political, and historical fields that I like. I'll probably become a political writer or local politican one of these days. But I'm focused on step 1 first. It's important to keep a roof over your head above all else. You can't fight for change very effectively if your basic needs aren't met.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It can I suppose, be a waste of energy if you can't change it. I worked in retail for 10 years. Mostly part time but still, it was a torment. Sometimes I would just wish I could accept it more. It's pretty tiring doing a full days work on your feet, passionately hating every minute of it and coming home to cry into your dinner.

Sometimes, it is a kind of waste to just feel all that anger and hate. Unless you can focus it on finding a solution I suppose.

 

[sserafim]

My mother used to say the exact same thing to me. Eventually, I realized that she simply just didn't like me challenging her constantly (or at all) and those types of comments stopped. To be fair, I can see why she didn't like me calling her out constantly. But I never started to agree with her.

Anyway, I don't think having a strong sense of morals/values is a trait that you need to discard. I don't think you can even discard it. If you're anything like me, then it'll be frustrating, especially once you realize how uncritically other people look at things. There are individuals out there that are honest-to-God sheeple. But don't let that fool you, as we all have beliefs that we're unwilling to question. This isn't a bad thing necessarily, as we all need a foundation of values to work off of. But be aware of it.

Another user stated that anger is only useful as initial motivation to start doing something, but is harmful after that point. I don't agree with this sentiment. Anger can always be utilized for good, if the energy is put in the right direction. The real issue is hate. I'd strongly suggest always choosing to focus on the love you have for what you're fighting for, instead of the hatred you have for whatever you're fighting against. It'll help you keep your momentum far easier.

I'm about to finish my BA in a conventional field, so that I can get a normal job. But I use my free time to study the philosophical, political, and historical fields that I like. I'll probably become a political writer or local politican one of these days. But I'm focused on step 1 first. It's important to keep a roof over your head above all else. You can't fight for change very effectively if your basic needs aren't met.

I have a BA in the science part of STEM lol. I didn't end up doing anything with it though

 

[Camper]

I have a BA in the science part of STEM

That's impressive. Scientists definitely have the ability to contribute a lot of good to this world.

 

[Meteora]

I will never surrender. The only thing I can do is kill myself and that's what I will do .I won't live as a slave a sheep as a prisoner

Same. I ll fight til the end. Nobody will break me again. Nobody. The consequence is suicide. But that's the cost I m willing to pay.

 

[Timothy7dff]

My mom said that I'm always fighting and going against the world. She said that it must be really tiring and taxing to be in constant opposition with everything. Is it better to surrender and give in? Maybe I should just go with the flow. There must be a reason as to why the system works and how there hasn't been a revolution yet. I heard that the most successful people make the system work for them.

The people who make the system work for them are called "a holes". There are some good professional people like doctors who make the system work for them. Most 'successful" people who are their own bosses are jerks....not all, but most.

If you have a special skill, you can be a successful non-a hole. Otherwise, it's join the system or die. There's NO money in writing. I knew great writers who graduated from top colleges who couldn't make a career with writing. With AI, even existing writers are losing their jobs.

It's not you. It's the system. The system is run by evil people. If you challenge the system enough, you get put on government watch lists. They WILL destroy your life for their own amusement.

The system that worked for people 30 years ago no longer exists. Middle classes have been destroyed.