Another response/retort to "but you can't guarantee it won't get better"

[TAW122]

I just recently found a good retort/response to a common reply that prolifers and anti-choicers love to use towards people who don't wish to continue sentience or keep trying in life, which is: "but you can't guarantee it won't get better!". Yes, while no one can guarantee anything, when one is dead, they also cannot suffer anymore. My retort or response to their statement is "but one can guarantee it won't get worse!".

(Apologies if someone had already made the same retort.)

I believe that nothingness (which of course prolifers and most sentient people cannot comprehend or relate to) is not inherently bad, negative, nor good. It simply is a state of neutrality, meaning that neither goodness (pleasure, joy, excitement, enjoyment), nor badness (negatively, torment, anguish, suffering) is present when a sentient being enters that state.

With moving and indefinite goalposts, false hopes, and prolonging sentience, one is always taking a gamble (a chance) as time progresses. It may get 'better' (sometimes it does, but oftenly at the cost and sacrifice of various things that one makes), but it certainly can also get 'worse'. There are likely people who have decided to give sentience and further existence (which induces more suffering on themselves) another chance only to get worse or suffer more, but you (almost) never hear prolifers talk about those. Instead, with their rosy-colored lens, they oftenly tout about all the success stories (which fit their narrative and viewpoint) but ignore all the other unsuccessful stories, thus presenting a very slanted view. We pro-choicers are more realistic and we consider all the stories, the successful stories as well as the non-successful stories.

Therefore, by drawing the line (based on the individuals choice and wishes - not owing it anyone but oneself), one can ensure and guarantee that he/she would not suffer past the moment that he/she has ended his/her existence (either peacefully with dignity or even gruesomely, though hopefully peacefully and dignified) as he/she would lack the ability (sentience and conscious) to do so. Also, it is one of the ways that one can cut the losses and prevent additional suffering even if the cost is the lack of pleasure. To me, suffering is worse than non-sentience, and while pleasure may be better than nothingness, it is still "overall" better to not suffer at all than to only experience fleeting and sparse moments of pleasure at the cost of much suffering.

 

[Mofreeko]

"You'll miss out on the potential good things in the future." Then I'll also miss out on all the potential bad things.

"You should be happy because there are people that have it way worse than you do." Then what about all the people who have it way better than I do?

Every time they try to use these arguments just turn it around on them. Them trying to throw hypothetic future scenarios at you with zero evidence backing them up can be dismissed outright.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I just really hope you're right. I really hope there is nothing. For those of us who are undecided though- on hell/purgatory/reincarnation- there's no guarantee things won't get worse if we get stuck with yet more existence. I truly hope you're right though.

 

[FuneralCry]

I think that no matter what for me non existence will always be preferable to living. As long as someone exists they are capable of suffering to such great extents and that is enough to make me want to leave this world. I personally have no interest in 'things getting better' even if that was possible, I just want to be gone. I don't really see life to be worth living in general, I see it to be a pointless and unnecessary experience. I think that a lot of pro life arguments make little sense as those types of people are deluded as to the cruel reality of this world where anybody can end up in the worst pain possible.

 

[notocarpediem]

Or guarantee it won't stay the same…which is already bad enough.

 

[Ash’Girl]

I think it also comes down (in mental health scenarios anyway) to brain chemistry and thought processes.

If our brain is wired a certain way - for whatever reason - the "toxic positivity" meme mindset is not going to work. But why is our brain wiring deemed negative rather than just realistic? Why do they think that we must be "ill" when we are just making a judgement based on our own life experiences to date?

I apply logic to my suicidal leanings. I look at my life and weigh up the good vs the bad. Consistently the bad has always outweighed the good. So, are the fleeting "good" periods worth it? I used to be swayed more often to fighting to achieve that "good", or at least "better" than crippling despair / anxiety / pain / apathy. I kept "fighting the good fight" to try and find my way to some kind of happiness.

Now I wonder why. If I'd just died years ago when I was an impulse led teenager then I wouldn't have had so much continued suffering. The thought of continuing through another untold amount of years fills me with utter dread. Yet I struggle with finding my method. I struggle with SI. So it's bleak.

You are right. Sometimes, for some people, it can get better. Sometimes, for some people, it just gets worse.

That's fact. But they can only acknowledge one side of their own arguments because they are hypocrites. Whereas we can see all sides of the debate and simply choose to decide that it's not worth it.

 

[whatstheporpoise15]

And that's why CBT never worked for me

 

[Seiba]

I've looked into the logic circles before and sometimes still do as an act of habit and indulgence without too much joy. I understand desiring to do so, but frankly none of them care. It's not an argument they will ever look at or consider, and they will outright lie to themselves to keep an image of suicide. being tragic or not justified. I've had failed attempts, and failed to deliver on one that would likely have worked this year.

I never bothered to say I was doing better, and I admitted to thinking about suicide and being suicidal for years. It changed little other than my packages being seized. It didn't matter what argument there was, nor what my answer for suicide even was. It was interrupted before being given and when my suicide attempt wasn't as inconvenient it was just declared I was better because I didn't bother to mention it every day under the context of being called mentally ill and threatened with mental hospitalization because "it's not normal"

It was helpful in obtaining in SN and the pills needed in the same year as the attempt, which is something I previously thought to be impossible. The reality I've came to realize is resolve is needed to be fine with the fact you're alone in the world and carry things alone.

People will purposefully misinterpret any letters, any words, just so they can keep their well being intact or so they can ask self pitying questions about not understanding what they could have done to help said person. They desire to feel helpful, not help, and it's a similar emotional purpose with their arguments.

 

[want2dienow]

i dont care what you think
-my retort

 

[Euthanza]

Life's always about gambling, for many to get some fortune there's a majority that don't. Dead is for sure.