whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,914
Unlikely unless you spend thousands in pursuit of it? I doubt meditation alone will be enough.
Well, the idea is to just improve a little, what these people achieved is superhuman. But it illustrates that whatever they did works, so with % of their effort you should get % of control over emotions and pain.
 
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KimKevorkian

Experienced
Feb 23, 2022
210
We don't have a clue as to whether those monks who have self-immolated while the Doors' "Light My Fire" was playing didn't feel the intense pain and torture of what that would entail. There have been many who have done this, yes. But the doing of it, and the subjective experience are two different things. For all we know, the people had tremendous devotion to a cause or principle that overrode anything else, even though inside they might have been thinking. "GodDAMN! Hurts like a mofo! YOOOOWWWW!' They might have experienced massive pain, but their devotion to a some principle took precedence over everything. Not me. My physical therapist hits a spot in my back and I'm ready to confess the world's flat and I'm Osama Bin fucking Laden.
 
whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,914
We don't have a clue as to whether those monks who have self-immolated while the Doors' "Light My Fire" was playing didn't feel the intense pain and torture of what that would entail. There have been many who have done this, yes. But the doing of it, and the subjective experience are two different things. For all we know, the people had tremendous devotion to a cause or principle that overrode anything else, even though inside they might have been thinking. "GodDAMN! Hurts like a mofo! YOOOOWWWW!' They might have experienced massive pain, but their devotion to a some principle took precedence over everything. Not me. My physical therapist hits a spot in my back and I'm ready to confess the world's flat and I'm Osama Bin fucking Laden.
Hmm, I have read about what they do and they actually train to disconnect from the pain, they stop feeling it like you or I would do. The pain might be there at the nervous level but their conscience isn't moved by it.

Also, if you have ever been very determined to get something done you will remember how the pain is felt less. I don't think that devotion or intent just masks the pain outwardly, this also literally makes the pain less present to the person.
 
K

KimKevorkian

Experienced
Feb 23, 2022
210
I have been planning to make a post for some time on this topic. The intention is to share an Eastern perspective that can take credit for me being alive at all. If this helps even one person whose main challenges pertain to matters of life purpose, it will all be worth it.

Philosophy
The Sanskrit word Advaita translates to 'not two', hence the similar phrase 'nondualism' in English. Its origins in India date back thousands of years. Despite the enormity of volumes of literature and commentary on the topic, the fundamental teaching is infinitely simple: the only thing that is real is consciousness, a.k.a. the Self, and it is a single entity. And because your own existence is self-evident to you, the Self alone is your true nature. All else is illusory, most notably the idea of being an individual person with a body and a story.

The implications of this are radical in the extreme. Statements like "this life is a dream", "other people don't exist", "I am not the body", "nothing ever happened", etc. are fairly typical of Advaita teachers. For one who has actually realised the Self (i.e. attained a pure state of consciousness, or realised the truth of themselves), this is their actual perspective; such teachings are offered to help others to attain that same state for themselves.

Comparison to Religion
Most Advaita teachers are averse to money and insist that they be available to all sincere seekers of all backgrounds. Those who achieve the most advanced purity of consciousness insist that words cannot describe that state, and that others must realise it for themselves. Hence, there is very little theory, a discouragement of merely intellectual understanding and no reliance on 'faith'. Note: while Advaita Vedanta is derived from the Hindu tradition, there are similarly purified branches of other religions, e.g. Zen in Buddhism and Sufism in Islam, which all guide seekers to exactly the same ultimate truth.

Many religions promote ethical behaviour, self-improvement, devotion or peaceful inner states. None of this is the direct goal for an Advaita seeker, though all of those things will happen naturally when the selfish ego-mind is destroyed. The goal is death of the ego-self that is identified with the body. In offering guidance, teachers will often say that there is no such thing as an ego-self. They will also say that there is no one to teach, and no teacher.

Perspective on Western mainstream
For an analogy, if the normal human condition is akin to being in a dream state and being deluded into thinking it is real, the goal is to wake out of it, not create more pleasant conditions within the dream. Or if you have been wearing a VR headset, the goal is to remove it and find out what is actually real. Hence the much-sought goals of materialism - power, prestige, physical pleasure, relationships, money - are either considered irrelevant or even a time-wasting distraction.

Suffering is considered an inevitable outcome of functioning from the deluded state of consciousness. This is because all things perish, so even a best-case scenario of getting what one wants still means having to go through the suffering of loss at some point. To a master, there is nobody to suffer and nobody to want anything, as all of this is part of the illusion. For practical purposes, though, suffering motivates people to seek a way out of the cycles of misery.

Compatibility with scientific theories
Some advanced theories, such as string theory, involve higher dimensions. In a temporal dimension, for example, this means that a past 'you' and a future 'you' have to exist in parallel to the 'you' of this present 'time'. Just as you appear to experience yourself at your current age rather than childhood or old age (even though you are actually one with them both), it is only a small stretch to further postulate that you are also unknowingly one with all other beings in the cosmos.

Pure science is based around presenting and testing hypotheses. The difference is that the revelation of the Self that you will experience cannot be described to others and is thus very personal, except that you will find that there is no person! Language becomes laughably messy and contradictory at this point. You are reading this now but you are also writing it, and you are also the one who didn't click to view this text. And you are none of this, as only the consciousness looking out through your eyes is real. Get it? There's nobody there to get it.

Methodology
Certain beings in a very advanced state have the power to put others in the same state simply by being in their presence. One was Ramana Maharshi, a 20th century south-Indian saint who for many years did not speak at all, yet people flocked from around the world to be in his presence. When he later began to verbalise teachings, his most common advice was along the lines of "You are already consciousness, just stop regarding the unreal as real."

For those wanting more practical advice, investigating one's own nature via the question "Who Am I?" is a technique known as self-inquiry. The false sense of 'I' will be traced to its source and ultimately perish, as it cannot survive without being attached to external identities. One who is already in an advanced state of readiness - which could be any one of you - will realise the Self in a short time with little effort. For others, the process is long, but nonetheless inevitably brings peace along the way because the ego-mind will not continue causing mayhem when it knows it is being investigated. A concise summary of Ramana's teachings can be found here:

Invitation for Discussion
I have most certainly not realised the Self, as there is still a strong belief in the reality of my problems and the tragedy of my personal hardships. And yet, pretty much the only thing that brings any real happiness is pondering this topic, and the hope is there to achieve the same liberation that many others have before. Thus, as a reasonably learned devotee, this thread is intended as an 'ask me anything' for anyone who may be interested or have any questions regarding this topic. And thank you to anyone who has read this far!
YouTube has a lot of talks by the late Alan Watts that might interest you. Some questions I like to ask myself (the first two from Nisargadatta Maharaj--with a little modification; the second two from my old acting teacher):

* "From where does this thought/feeling arise? Who/what is experiencing this? Who/what is answering this question?"

* "To where does/did that thought subside?"

*"Now what am I aware of?" (Start with word "now") Seeing, hearing, feeling (both sensate and emotional--which are all somatically-based anyhow--internal/external)

*"Now what am I NOT aware of?" (seeing, hearing. feeling--internal/external)
Hmm, I have read about what they do and they actually train to disconnect from the pain, they stop feeling it like you or I would do. The pain might be there at the nervous level but their conscience isn't moved by it.

Also, if you have ever been very determined to get something done you will remember how the pain is felt less. I don't think that devotion or intent just masks the pain outwardly, this also literally makes the pain less present to the person.
I'd be very interested in seeing how it would apply to the everyday person. There are people who can have multiple orgasms all day long, or lick peanut butter off their foreheads (how'd it get there in the first place? And what a popular person that must be), but those are anomalies. Not everyone is a Mozart (who was also a champion forehead peanut-butter licker apparently).
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,914
Yeah, thats an interesting point, but supposedly anyone can attain enlightement or at least release some karmic weight. I guess I ought to walk the talk and then come back to tell the story. To an extent, I have done some spiritual work in dettaching from this transient reality and seeing that there was something before and will be something after me, but I wouldn't have landed on this forum if my spirituality was firm, developed and effective.

The two main battle fronts I have are letting go of sexuality (having identified this as one of the main anchors to this place/to suffering) and of the pathological caring of the opinion other people have of me (social anxiety). As long as I have little success on these I can talk all I want about the spiritual path but I am not walking through it.
 
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