Addressing Rep. Dawn Keefer's new law and the Recent Statements made about this Forum in the Media

[a.h]

So very true..... ptsd here

Sorry to hear that. I have it also. If I would get justice I could heal.

 

[Zal]

So for sure there is no action or compensation if an adult commits suicide but relatives deside to blame others for her death. That doesn't even make sense unless deceased one was bullied severely and did suicide to escape that.

I suppose it is a self-defense mechanics. Because people can't stand it if they know that they are actually responsible for the suicide, by pushing them towards their deaths, that is. Such is the mentality of an average person. They believe themselves to be good, causing someone else to commit suicide is bad, therefore they wish to direct the blame to other people. And of course, believing that the suicide itself could be prevented is for making them feel better.

Either way, the minority is ignored and they (pro-lifers) will never understand the suicidal until they become suicidal themselves (probably) or they will even try to be equal to the suicidal. The latter will likely not happen as long as suicide is thought as a thought crime.

 

[a.h]

I suppose it is a self-defense mechanics. Because people can't stand it if they know that they are actually responsible for the suicide, by pushing them towards their deaths, that is. Such is the mentality of an average person. They believe themselves to be good, causing someone else to commit suicide is bad, therefore they wish to direct the blame to other people. And of course, believing that the suicide itself could be prevented is for making them feel better.

Either way, the minority is ignored and they (pro-lifers) will never understand the suicidal until they become suicidal themselves (probably) or they will even try to be equal to the suicidal. The latter will likely not happen as long as suicide is thought as a thought crime.

You are right.

Programs for people whose loved ones have died by suicide always teach that they couldn't have prevented that. No amount of love would have changed it and their loved one had much bigger reasons to do it.
Everyone should understand that.

Only in cases where people have caused great amount of suffering to other one could other persons actions prevent it. For example if people have lied and gotten innocent person to jail and ruined hers/hims life or bullied someone severely then they could do the right thing and by that prevent the suicide.

 

[whereisfreedom]

The media are enemies.
Shawn's mother is embittered and seeks the guilty of the wrong ones.
Politicians use this for power conservation because media (journalists) are indoctrinated.

Would don't give a fuck about this smear campaign but would deactivate the option that everyone can see this board and posts through a search engine.
And thinking about a Plan B if the the pressure is too high: Switch to darknet.
Yeah yeah, some people don't know how to use darknet and so on. But that's not an excuse to learn more about computers and internet.
Especially nowadays with more regulations, censors and surveillance.
You can still leave this domain and a simple page with actual onion-links to the darknet-sanctionsuicide site online. Like darkfailllnkf4vf with dnm-shops. And a
''how-to use'' is for the people who found the site.

 

[I’vehadenough]

There has been a new wave of news stories going around regarding HB1827, also known as Shawn's Law. There have also been new statements going around that I would like to address. I would like to address these two topics today with the community and to any outsider that is reading this. It has been a rough week for myself and I'm sure it has been one for all of you too.

It seems like the local media in York and in surrounding areas still running with the same story that Shawn was encouraged and pushed over the edge by members of this forum. That claim is completely false. I have checked every thread that Shawn posted, there was no encouraging of suicide from anyone on this forum by our definition nor legal definition. The rules on encouraging suicide on this forum are very clear. We do not allow any member to encourage someone else to commit suicide or any other illegal acts. This has always been a rule, but it was updated recently to clearly designate that we don't tolerate encouraging other people to commit illegal acts either. It is saddening to see that the same false narrative is being pushed without any sort of proof. We will be going through all media coverage regarding this website and we will be asking the relevant news agencies to retract or modify their statements. If they fail to do so, we will be considering our legal options against the news agencies that fail to retract or correct their reporting.

Many of these news articles are still falsely claiming that encouragement happened and they are stating that as a FACT, not as an opinion. I and many others on this forum have seen the same posts that Shawn's mother refers to and they are not posts of encouragement. I have avoided trying to address this for many months as I want the community to move past this. The media coverage and incompetent actions of lawmakers and law enforcement have made many members of this forum paranoid and scared. I'm going to do my best to rectify this so that we can move past this.

I want to now address the lawmaker behind this law: PA State Representative Dawn Keefer. I want to know how extending sentences for aiding, encouraging, or assisting suicide is going to help anyone? We know that sending a person to a building where they have to sit behind bars for years on end for saying words that they might have not even known was a crime is harsh. It doesn't solve the underlying issue at all. This is the problem with politicians these days. No matter what your political leanings are; I think we can agree that this new law will not solve anything. The lawmaker wrote an opinion piece regarding this situation. I'm going to take this time to address the opinion piece.

Rep. Dawn Keefer, you have been presented with deceit, lies, and falsehoods. No one on this forum encouraged Shawn Shatto to kill herself. That is a fact. Forum posts and threads and the replies on those threads are proof of that. For you to continue to say that she was encouraged to do kill herself is beyond disgusting and dishonest. She makes a parallel between Michelle Carter's case and Shawn Shatto's case. Both cases are very different and are not comparable. There wasn't a soul actively coaching Shawn to kill herself. From the information that is available, evidence suggests that she decided to go through with this herself with little outside help. Users share guides on here regarding different methods, but those guides are provided by other members.

"Shawn did so and then contacted the website, saying she was terrified. At least one person on the forum gave her reassuring words that suicide was the best route"

This is incorrect. Shawn made a thread on the website saying she was terrified, but the replies on the thread were well wishes. There's nothing there resembling or even insinuating that suicide was the best route. The only thing I could see on the thread is well wishes to Shawn and discussion about the Goodbye Thread bans policy implemented shortly before this occurred.

"It is absolutely appalling people are willing to not only provide a recipe for death, but also to encourage someone to commit suicide. I cannot fathom the mindset of these people who nonchalantly dole out this kind of information and push someone already dealing with depression and anxiety toward such an irreversible outcome."

It seems like you don't fully grasp the concept of the first amendment and the purpose of it. The purpose of the first amendment gives us the right to express our opinions. A free society depends on the free exchange of ideas to push new ideas. Without freedom of speech, forums like this and many other websites including most social media websites wouldn't exist. As a representative, you should know this. You can use sophisticated words to try to mask the fact that you're against the first amendment, but that's not helping anyone at all.

"I don't believe these penalties are harsh enough. People who guide or encourage others to kill themselves are committing murder by proxy. Our justice system must be given more tools in the form of harsher sentences to combat this evil."

No one on this forum guided or encouraged Shawn to kill herself; She made that decision on her own according to the evidence that I have seen. The "murder by proxy" line is one of the most disgusting things that I have heard come out of a politicians mouth. Giving longer sentences for this crime does nothing for anyone at all. This doesn't give assistance to those that feel that the current system fails them.

This is why people come to our forum. We offer a support community for those that feel that the system has completely failed them and the system has failed them and many others too. Mental health is something that needs more focus and care in our country. Hauling people off to mental facilities and forcing medicine down people's throats isn't solving this issue.

This lawmaker feels like she doing a moral good without seeing the whole issue at hand. This is an extremely shortsighted law that will not do anything to help those that actually are suffering. This is just more proof that our lawmakers don't care about the underlying issues that would cause someone to commit suicide. They only care about advancing their political image and making money.

They especially don't care about the right-to-die either. Giving people that choice and a way out of this world is something that would benefit everyone and it puts the individual in total control of their own life. We didn't decide to come into this world. I think we should let people have a choice whether they want to live or not.

That is all that I wanted to address in her article. If you wish to read it for full context, I posted a link to it above.

I want to end this thread on one point. This community was made as a place where people can freely speak about their issues without having to worry about being "saved" or giving empty platitudes. It can be argued that this community have saved lots of lives. Many that come here decide not to kill themselves and they become apart of our community. They will ignore this fact because they don't want this place to exist at all. If people have issues, they want people to go through the broken medical system that we have in place and take happy pills and shut up. We will keep this place running for years to come and we will do everything in our power to make sure that this website continues to stay up for our members' sake.

I do encourage you all to contact Rep. Dawn Keefer to voice your opinion about the new law she's proposing especially if you live in her district or in the state of Pennsylvania. You can click here to do so.

Sincerely,
Marquis

If anything, I think this website prevents people from commiting suicide be sure they learn from others how difficult it is to succeed in suicide and the members on here give support by trying to help each other get through the day. For some of us with physical disfigurement or chronic pain which prevents us from living a real life, suicide, unfortunately, might be our best option and we should have the right to end our lives if it prevents years of torture and unbearable pain. But even in this state, members try to help us look at all options first. Let me know if you need my help in this matter

 

[a.h]

A competent adult has the right to choose the time, place, and manner of their death. Most people would choose a peaceful death.

Suicide is legal.

Heinous societies have passed savage laws to criminalize a person who assists another person to do something that is lawful.

By withholding the means to die a peaceful death, society forces people to act out of desperation; to use methods that might result in a horrific and painful death.

By withholding the means to die a peaceful death, society forces people to act in ignorance; to misuse methods, resulting in a horrific and painful death.

Why do so-called religious people deny their sisters and brothers a peaceful end?

Why do so-called moral people force their brothers and sisters into a terrifying end?

Where is the compassion?

People who really want to do it will do it. That is what's taught to people by professionals too. By taking away every easy peacefull methods many will choose other worser method. So even if the law wouldn't allow euthanasia and drugs for it then why government needs to make it so much harder for people to go by their own when the time comes by diluting helium, banning sale of CO canisters etc.? It would be much safer and less traumatic to others too. Every year desperate people who have no other means to go safely jump in front of the train, they bring grills inside the house, they shoot themselves, they crashes their cars on purpose etc.
At least in here people are told about painless methods that won't cause danger to others. But everyone who doubts whether they should do it will be told to think about it and are given support, often even when they have actually no other way (terminal disease etc.) because people don't know that.
In euthanasia sites people can ask questions about methods and are given it. Nobody can know if the person asking is sick or not and they don't ask if a person don't first open up about it which I think is great. But nobody is saying that euthanasia sites are bad. One has even about SN method written in front page. Everyone knows they are for good with good intentions.

 

[CyanideSoup]

Maybe instead of demonising the only support most of us have, they should focus on providing resources and funding for people who felt the way that Shawn and the rest of us do.

 

[whereisfreedom]

Shawn was 25-year-old. Compared to people under 21 her personality and brain were completely developed.
The human brain maturation continues to the 25th age.

She knew what she wanted to do. She was not a children anymore. No, she was an adult woman.
She acted on her own responsibility and without any external influence.

We need here a strict age limit. It is known that the human brain maturation continues to the 25th age.

 

[ron_g]

Imagine two members of this forum discussed how to ctb and gave each other advice. After some time both suicided independently. For each one's parents, their own child is the victim and the other member is the murderer.

 

[DepressionsAHo]

Shawn was 25-year-old. Compared to people under 21 her personality and brain were completely developed.
The human brain maturation continues to the 25th age.

She knew what she wanted to do. She was not a children anymore. No, she was an adult woman.
She acted on her own responsibility and without any external influence.

We need here a strict age limit. It is known that the human brain maturation continues to the 25th age.

Well, the first time I tried to kill myself I was 8 years old. I'm 21 now, I know for a fact I'm going to change my mind and there's millions just like me (something I found out by visiting this site) i agree there should be an age limit but that age limit should be 18.

 

[Jean Améry]

That would seem to fall under the legal definition of slander: knowingly spreading false rumours about someone or an organization in order to damage their reputation. Perhaps a lawsuit would be in order.

It's clear that they want mere discussion of suicide made into a criminal offence and make it a legal requirement for everyone to actively discourage any suicidal ideation or announcing of plans, regardless of one's philosophical beliefs or moral convictions. This is dictatorship plain and simple: if we can't express our moral convictions, thoughts and feelings we are in effect silenced and our human right and constitutional right of freedom of expression will be nullified under the pretext of 'harm reduction' and 'promotion of mental health'. Which isn't even identifiable let alone measurable.

Ironically it's their omerta on everything suicide-related and failure to acknowledge being suicidal as a personal matter which should not be grounds for discrimination let alone incarceration that is causing many unnecessary deaths. Make suicide legal (i.e. remove it as grounds for involuntary commitment except maybe in extreme cases where the person really does not know who or where they are) and people won't be afraid to discuss it with their loved-ones knowing no-one will be able to stop them anymore than in the case of any voluntary act that doesn't cause direct harm to others.

Being able to talk about this subject without fear of negative consequences is what people in distress need: that way they can discuss their emotions, thoughts and urges with others who understand which will usually lessen the despair and thus reduce the chance of a suicidal act occuring. What this forum does is offer understanding and a friendly ear to those who are often in dire need. Those who want to act on a whim oftentimes with poorly thought out plans and ineffective yet damaging and painful means are actually discouraged and rightfully so.

This forum has probably done more in terms of harm reduction and prevention of suicide, at least for those who are serious about suicide, than the silly hotline system most countries have set up.

 

[omoidarui]

We need here a strict age limit. It is known that the human brain maturation continues to the 25th age.

i remember when i believed that crap too before i read this post

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-an-account-on-our-website.17037/#post-322098

tldr; pro-choice shouldn't be exclusive to adults. We're developing mentally and personally throughout our lives. If the forum were to be taken down it wouldn't be because we allowed under 18s here: it would be because ignorant pro-lifers objected this site's purpose regardless.

 

[whereisfreedom]

i remember when i believed that crap too before i read this post

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-an-account-on-our-website.17037/#post-322098

tldr; pro-choice shouldn't be exclusive to adults. We're developing mentally and personally throughout our lives. If the forum were to be taken down it wouldn't be because we allowed under 18s here: it would be because ignorant pro-lifers objected this site's purpose regardless.

This is not crap. It's legal protection.
And 18 is too young. Like I already wrote this ''crap''

The human brain maturation continues to the 25th age.

In most US-states even alcohol is allowed if you 21.
If I had an 18-year-old child on such a forum and it took its life and I found out, I would do my best to shut it down. At 18 you are not grown up. Not even with 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25.
Only at 25.
Bad bad pro-lifer now. Pff, don't give a fuck.
It makes a difference if someone who is just 18, who has legally just grown up, takes his own life or someone who turns 30. At least - for me.

 

[RainAndSadness]

This is not crap. It's legal protection.
And 18 is too young. Like I already wrote this ''crap''
In most US-states even alcohol is allowed if you 21.
If I had an 18-year-old child on such a forum and it took its life and I found out, I would do my best to shut it down. At 18 you are not grown up. Not even with 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25.
Only at 25.
Bad bad pro-lifer now. Pff, don't give a fuck.
It makes a difference if someone who is just 18, who has legally just grown up, takes his own life or someone who turns 30. At least - for me.

That doesn't make any sense. In Switzerland, you can get a gun, a driver license, view porn, drink alcohol and get drafted at the age of 18. If you can do all these things that require a fair amount of responsibility, why wouldn't you be able to make a decision about the right to die? I think we need to stop the gate-keeping and just let people make their own life choices.

 

[I’vehadenough]

That doesn't make any sense. In Switzerland, you can get a gun, a driver license, view porn, drink alcohol and get drafted at the age of 18. If you can do all these things that require a fair amount of responsibility, why wouldn't you be able to make a decision about the right to die? I think we need to stop the gate-keeping and just let people make their own life choices.

Bc your brain is not fully developed until you are 25. I can't imagine anyone that young having a valid reason to kill themselves that young unless something crippling happened to them

 

[Life+me=error]

Bc your brain is not fully developed until you are 25

This fact does not matter to a girl who got violently raped or a young adult who grew up with an abuse alcoholic parent. I can list more examples if you wish.

 

[I’vehadenough]

This fact does not matter to a girl who got violently raped or a young adult who grew up with an abuse alcoholic parent. I can list more examples if you wish.

I was raped by an old man. I've been beat up, my dad was a violent drug addict. I was abused, bullied and had no friends. I got out of that environment. I left home and moved to the ghetto. I never thought about killing myself. I went to college, worked hard, got an amazing career, made 6 figures, traveled around the world with my boyfriend who was a runway model. things turned around and i gave myself a good life. Better than most people. after all the trauma in my life, I was fearless and got what I wanted...so I'm not some pussy who's gonna baby a teenager and say, "oh that's sad, go kill yourself." I'm gonna tell you to change everything, go after what you want. If your parents are the problem, leave home. And if everyone hates you, more reason to stay alive so you can piss them off even more. In fact, make it fun to be hated, like a punk rock band

 

[JimFord99]

I wish I had left home sooner than I did, and this was ages ago. Maybe things would have turned out in a different way. Probably they would have.

 

[Life+me=error]

I admire your strength. You took charge of your life and you made something out of yourself in spite of your difficult upbringing.

I think everyone is responsible for their own life. Some choose to fight while others prefer to die. Either way, at the end, death wins.

 

[I’vehadenough]

I wish I had left home sooner than I did, and this was ages ago. Maybe things would have turned out in a different way. Probably they would have.

Honestly, I wish I left earlier, at like 15. The longer you are around your abuser, the worse the psychological effects

 

[JimFord99]

Yeah to the point, I'vehadenough.

 

[FailedWoman]

Shawn was 25-year-old. Compared to people under 21 her personality and brain were completely developed.
The human brain maturation continues to the 25th age.

She knew what she wanted to do. She was not a children anymore. No, she was an adult woman.
She acted on her own responsibility and without any external influence.

We need here a strict age limit. It is known that the human brain maturation continues to the 25th age.

This kind of gatekeeping is utter and complete bullshit. In no way, shape or form, you can guarantee that people are "done" at 25. You cannot quantify development or maturity. Neither can you quantify suffering.
A couple months ago, a 17 year old girl ended her life by stopping food and water intake. I couldn't possibly explain how hard this method is. Just try it yourself.
Would you force-feed her? Would you tell her she didn't "suffer enough" yet by your standards?

I feel like people who make these ridiculous claims should be forced to take care of suicidal people.

 

[TheLastSacrifice]

Murder by proxy? There's no such thing man. This is make believe bullshit that she wants to legislate.

"These monstrous strangers encouraged her to finish out the act of suicide," said Jackie Bieber, Shatto's mother. "Disgusting, appalling, unbelievable, unimaginable, unacceptable."

"These website members are true evil," said Jackie Bieber. "They are murderers who gain joy and gratification from the death of others."

Wow. How misguided. I'm compassionate to her grief and therefore will not attack her personally, but I will defend myself and my fellow members to these incredibly hateful remarks.

We are not monsters, evil or disgusting murderers. We do not encourage suicidal people, we accept them, with compassion, with no judgement and offer them love and understanding. Something severely lacking in the general population. We do not gain any joy or gratification from others suicide. It makes us incredibly sad. That anyone is in this situation is not a cause for celebration here. This interpretation of our community is completely inaccurate.

"She finally gets a voice," said Shatto's father.

She had a voice. We heard it, we acknowledged it, while the rest of the world did not.

Oh I will happily attack her idiot statements. That sheer dumbed down way of thinking has no place even in grief. Those ad hominem remarks get to be mocked. Someone stupid enough to make such cookie cutters narrative driven statements deserves the ridicule. Im sorry I don't go to fight for the freedom to throw free speech in the dumpster.

Murder by proxy? There's no such thing man. This is make believe bullshit that she wants to legislate.

Oh I will happily attack her idiot statements. That sheer dumbed down way of thinking has no place even in grief. Those ad hominem remarks get to be mocked. Someone stupid enough to make such cookie cutters narrative driven statements deserves the ridicule. Im sorry I didnt go to fight for the freedom to throw free speech in the dumpster.