Method Addendum on nitrogen

[Smilla]

This is good info. Thanks.

The company name that is machine-stamped on the Max Dog is WT Farley and they sell medical supplies exclusively, so I think presuming this to be a medical-grade device is accurate.

And remember too that chronicpainnomore was going to use a cheaper regulator originally but he then got a maxdog and said there was basically no comparison in terms of quality. I'd link to the thread but I'm on my phone.

 

[DarkTear]

I am interested in knowing what differentiates the Max Dog from the nitrogen regulator sold by WT Farley, and if WT Farley is from whom they procure their regulators, why Max Dog sells a customized oxygen regulator as opposed to just re-selling the nitrogen regulator WT Farley already sells.

I sent MDB an E-Mail. The reply was rather short and they ignored my question regarding the usage of O2- instead of nitrogen-regulators, but at least we know a little more about the connection to WT Farley:

Our regulator bodies are sourced from WT Farley and then customised in Australia.

 

[Jen Erik]

I sent MDB an E-Mail. The reply was rather short and they ignored my question regarding the usage of O2- instead of nitrogen-regulators, but at least we know a little more about the connection to WT Farley:

Thanks for doing that and sharing the followup. That's super info to have, fills in some of the blanks.

 

[JWL]

I ended up buying a 40cf tank of N2 instead of a 20cf. A 20cf will give very close to 40 minutes at 15Lpm, which is about right to ctb. However, I've failed/flinched three times now, so have probably used 15 minutes of N2. Had I bought a 20cf, I'd be needing to have it refilled. Since I bought a 40cf, with 80 min @ 15Lpm, I still have plenty left for future attempts.

Does it take 40 minutes??

I thought the deal was that after your first deep breath you were nicely drowsy and from there gone in a few minutes.

What did I miss? 5' or 40'?

 

[crova]

Does it take 40 minutes??

I thought the deal was that after your first deep breath you were nicely drowsy and from there gone in a few minutes.

What did I miss? 5' or 40'?

There was a report from Dignitas describing 40 min attempt by nitrogen and oxygen mask.
Using nitrogen + exit bag correctly you should be gone in a few minutes, as you stated.

 

[Arak]

@crova ,

Do you have more information about the case ? Why not N ?

 

[crova]

@crova ,

Do you have more information about the case ? Why not N ?

Im sorry for late reply!
It looks like I haven't bookmarked this page I refereed to.
Oxygen mask they used didnt provide sealing good enough to stop air from getting in. This was the main reason It took that long.
Why not N? I dont remember if it was mentioned. Maybe medical issues against N? My memory is like sieve these days.

Update.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...h_helium_at_a_Swiss_right-to-die_organisation

Case 4 (Female)
The member exhaled prior to placing the mask in the working position and after 30 seconds she
appeared conscious. At 33 seconds she nodded "yes" to an attendant's query whether she was
breathing. Immediately afterwards the member's eyelids blinked rapidly. It is estimated that
consciousness was lost 55 seconds after the mask was put in place. At 1:11 her eyeballs rolled,
and there were tremors in both hands. The tremors continued to 2:06 and then the body appeared
relaxed. At 2:09 the breathing rate quickened for about 6 seconds. At 3:03 there was a slow
extension and contraction of both arms, which then relaxed at the member's sides at 3:26.
At 3:58 breathing began to accelerate, pausing occasionally, and then accelerating again. From
5:36 to 10:12 there was intermittent moaning. During this same period the eyelids were open
and the eyeballs were moving, but without appearance of control. Between 10:13 to 38:16,
intermittent patterns of accelerated breathing, relaxed breathing, and moaning continued. During
this period a number of movements occurred: at 26:03 the head tilted back; at 30:41 the
shoulders shrugged and left arm contracted; at 34:55 the left shoulder shrugged; at 37:06 both
arms contracted for 10 seconds after which the member appeared quite inert.
At 38:16 the camera was turned off, to replace the video tape. The time elapsed for this is not
known. The duration of the second tape is 26:57. At 0:49 of part 2 the member let out a deep
gasp and the head tilted back to 0:57. At 1:31 the tongue extended slightly and withdrew. This
tongue movement continued at 15 – 20 second intervals until 3:45, after which no further signs
of life were apparent. The camera continued to run from 3:45 to 26:57, but the member appeared
dead.
The recorded time from the start of the procedure to cessation of all signs of life was
approximate 42 minutes. The actual time from start to finish is not known due to the change of
video tape. The changes in breathing patterns, moaning, and longer dying time appeared to
concern and confuse the Dignitas attendants.

 

[Arak]

@crova ,

Thank you. It's mentioned as experimental. Why the experiment ? That's the question. It also says an ogygen mask is not sufficient. Date: year 2010. I wish there were a better way than an 'exit bag'.

 

[crova]

@crova ,

Thank you. It's mentioned as experimental. Why the experiment ? That's the question. It also says an ogygen mask is not sufficient. Date: year 2010. I wish there were a better way than an 'exit bag'.

If you think about going with inert gas, the exit bag is well researched and almost foolproof method available.
Are you familiar with the the book Five Last Acts - The Exit Path 2015 [p. 85 to p. 208]
Go to the chapter Helium and Inert gas: there is more than 100 pages describing both gases in fine details with pictures and drawings.
I recommend this and the PPeH October 2018 to read again.
they both availible from our Resources [https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/list-of-resources.3/]

Here the video showing how fast nitrogen asphyxiation can be:

in 0 oxygen environment [like in exit bag] just one inhalation could be critical.

 

[Smilla]

If you think about going with inert gas, the exit bag is well researched and almost foolproof method available.
Are you familiar with the the book Five Last Acts - The Exit Path 2015 [p. 85 to p. 208]
Go to the chapter Helium and Inert gas: there is more than 100 pages describing both gases in fine details with pictures and drawings.
I recommend this and the PPeH October 2018 to read again.
they both availible from our Resources [https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/list-of-resources.3/]

Here the video showing how fast nitrogen asphyxiation can be:

in 0 oxygen environment [like in exit bag] just one inhalation could be critical.

I've watched this video many times. Thanks for sharing here.

Also, NASA had an accident with Nitro some years back after they cleared the engine bases with Nitrogen to eliminate oxygen, reducing the risk of fire. I believe two (out of five) technicians died.
https://www.wired.com/2009/03/march-19-1981-shuttle-columbias-first-fatalities/

 

[Arak]

I just dread the 'fumbling' with a bag ... hypoxic room, that would be ideal

 

[Smilla]

I just dread the 'fumbling' with a bag ... hypoxic room, that would be ideal

Not sure if I am on the ignore list or not, but yeah you aren't alone in this-many object to the bag aspect. I suspect those folks and you might have a mild case of claustrophobia which isn't uncommon.

You can technically use a tent but that adds further complications and failure risk per Wiki.

 

[Arak]

@Smilla ,

'Not sure if I am on the ignore list or not' You're not.

 

[Smilla]

Im sorry for late reply!
It looks like I haven't bookmarked this page I refereed to.
Oxygen mask they used didnt provide sealing good enough to stop air from getting in. This was the main reason It took that long.
Why not N? I dont remember if it was mentioned. Maybe medical issues against N? My memory is like sieve these days.

Update.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...h_helium_at_a_Swiss_right-to-die_organisation

Case 4 (Female)
The member exhaled prior to placing the mask in the working position and after 30 seconds she
appeared conscious. At 33 seconds she nodded "yes" to an attendant's query whether she was
breathing. Immediately afterwards the member's eyelids blinked rapidly. It is estimated that
consciousness was lost 55 seconds after the mask was put in place. At 1:11 her eyeballs rolled,
and there were tremors in both hands. The tremors continued to 2:06 and then the body appeared
relaxed. At 2:09 the breathing rate quickened for about 6 seconds. At 3:03 there was a slow
extension and contraction of both arms, which then relaxed at the member's sides at 3:26.
At 3:58 breathing began to accelerate, pausing occasionally, and then accelerating again. From
5:36 to 10:12 there was intermittent moaning. During this same period the eyelids were open
and the eyeballs were moving, but without appearance of control. Between 10:13 to 38:16,
intermittent patterns of accelerated breathing, relaxed breathing, and moaning continued. During
this period a number of movements occurred: at 26:03 the head tilted back; at 30:41 the
shoulders shrugged and left arm contracted; at 34:55 the left shoulder shrugged; at 37:06 both
arms contracted for 10 seconds after which the member appeared quite inert.
At 38:16 the camera was turned off, to replace the video tape. The time elapsed for this is not
known. The duration of the second tape is 26:57. At 0:49 of part 2 the member let out a deep
gasp and the head tilted back to 0:57. At 1:31 the tongue extended slightly and withdrew. This
tongue movement continued at 15 – 20 second intervals until 3:45, after which no further signs
of life were apparent. The camera continued to run from 3:45 to 26:57, but the member appeared
dead.
The recorded time from the start of the procedure to cessation of all signs of life was
approximate 42 minutes. The actual time from start to finish is not known due to the change of
video tape. The changes in breathing patterns, moaning, and longer dying time appeared to
concern and confuse the Dignitas attendants.

This is why (case 4), I am using a 40 cu ft tank as my main concern is running out of fuel before death, and also using a hood, not a mask.

 

[crova]

This is why (case 4), I am using a 40 cu ft tank as my main concern is running out of fuel before death, and also using a hood, not a mask.

For my paranoid brain nothing seems to be enough anymore! [I have slightly more than 50cu ft of Nitrogen]

The truth is 15cu ft [approx. 400 liters] is more than enough to deliver painless and peaceful death. [gas+bag]

 

[Idorus]

I just dread the 'fumbling' with a bag ... hypoxic room, that would be ideal

Would be great but you then first have to flush all the air out PN said (so: complex). Hence the Sarco which is using liquid nitro that evaporates into a huge cloud of gas in a second as soon as it's exposed to room temp.

 

[crova]

Would be great but you then first have to flush all the air out PN said (so: complex). Hence the Sarco which is using liquid nitro that evaporates into a huge cloud of gas in a second as soon as it's exposed to room temp.

Nitschke built one working [dummy?] model so far.
It's far from mass production stage and once it's for sale I can imagine it's only for Netherlands and maybe Belgium market.
Now guess the price tag? Definitely not for poor.
Most likely Dignitas will have one and use it as alternative to N [which cost approx. $10k already]

 

[Idorus]

It depends on where the futuristic 3D printshops arise first in the world. You have to build it yourself. Dignitas is the pilot in the nearby future. Print budget options have a body already.

 

[Arak]

@Idorus ,

The issue is more to get all that gas for the room ! The required volume is huge.
I mean, if you can get that done there should be a way to dispose of any air/oxygen.

I don't expect anything from the Sarco. I mean, that's Philip pimping his products.
By the time (if ever) the technology becomes available to create it with a 3D printer authorities will prevent you from either creating one or accessing one ! That's my take.

 

[Idorus]

The issue is more to get all that gas for the room ! The required volume is huge.
I mean, if you can get that done there should be a way to dispose of any air/oxygen.

Yes you're right. He said it as well, you would need a huge emount of gas. But that's really my last concern, I would buy as many cylinders as needed. My point is: I don't get it, I simply don't get it and I would pay a chemist to tell me in detail about it. Does enough gas ensure all air will be flushed out? HOW, exaclty HOW do I create a small space to be filled with 100% nitro? According to PN you would need A) a huge amount of gas + B) flush out all air first.

So: A and B together aren't always necessary cause that entirely depends on the amount of gas? All the air is automatically displaced by gas if it's a LOT of gas?

Man I'm full of questions and don't even know where to start. Where can I find info on that?

 

[Arak]

@Idorus ,

I don't really know. 100 % would be hard withpout specialized equipment. I mean, people died in hypoxic rooms. Unintentionally.
Maybe you could displace most of the air and use something that would bind the oxygen ... resources, resources.
'All the air is automatically replaced by gas if it's a LOT of gas?' If you were to fiercely blast in enough gas it would .. depending on the weight of the gas !

 

[Idorus]

'All the air is automatically replaced by gas if it's a LOT of gas?' If you were to fiercely bast in enough gas it would .. depending on the weight of the gas !

Ah yes weight.. nitro is lighter than air.. another problem ;)
Argon is heavier and displaces oxygen close to the ground so I heard.. resources yeah.

 

[Smilla]

@Smilla ,

'Not sure if I am on the ignore list or not' You're not.

Yay!

 

[Violet]

Does any European person know if it is possible to get all this material here? I do not care about the country, Portugal, Holland, whatever.
Also if in your opinion this method is feasible for someone who is somewhat clumsy

 

[Violet]

You should be able to buy nitrogen or argon tank in most EU countries easily.
Please first read two chapters from two books available in resources folder on this forum.
Take time to read and understand principles. After that you should be able to answer if this is something you can pull yourself.

download:
https://www.load.to/d5R8OuUEjD/Five_Last_Acts__2015_.pdf
chapter about helium and nitrogen [more than 100 pages of reading with pictures and drawings]

your very kind. Apreciate this information. This method is my second choice after the pills

 

[crova]

your very kind. Apreciate this information. This method is my second choice after the pills

You're welcome.
Please research your pills as well. Not many on this forum will advise pills as the only method.

 

[-L-]

Hi everyone,
So after a few months in and out of hospital and having the police seize my previous setup, I've started from scratch..

I decided I wanted my own maxdog regulator without the insanely marked up prices.

Using some of the information found in this thread I was able to reverse engineer the maxdog brewing regulator.
For a MUCH lower price.
In total this build costed me $61 USD (without postage factored in).
I still have tests to do with it but it looks promising thus far.

The regulator in a vice with the CGA-540 removed.

The new CGA-580, and the old CGA-540 side by side.

Wrapping the CGA-580.

The CGA-580 getting tightened.

Completed. Just need to reinstall the barb connector.

I also made my own little goofy logo, as I didn't want to feel left out by all the maxdog "kool kidz".
I'm calling this project doge dog brewing, if you didn't already figure that out..


I may release a full guide on how I did this, however I have been morally conflicted with the idea of potentially assisting people with a guide of my creation.
I think anyone who is willing to do their own research, and put the time in can figure out how this is done.. As the pictures above should be illustrative enough.


My only question is what is the weight difference between oxygen and nitrogen?

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask or PM.

EDITED: Because Imgur does not work on this site, had to use another image host.
-- EDIT 2: The first image was failing to load.. Fixed that. This site is a pain in the ass with images. I can't seem to directly attach them to the post.

 

[TiredHorse]

I decided I wanted my own maxdog regulator without the insanely marked up prices.

Only one word for this: WOW!

 

[Jen Erik]

My only question is what is the weight difference between oxygen and nitrogen?

My understanding is that it is negligible.

 

[JWL]

I also made my own little goofy logo, as I didn't want to feel left out by all the maxdog "kool kidz".
I'm calling this project doge dog brewing, if you didn't already figure that out..

What is DOGE and how to pronounce?