Method According to reddit, vomiting only yields about 30% of poisonous substance even if done immediately after ingestion

[Mofreeko]

Hey guys, just stumbling upon this thread in r/askscience on why emesis (vomiting) is not effective for ingested poisons. Apparently vomiting even immediately after ingestion only brings back around 30% of the amount ingested. I think that's pretty good news in regards to SN attempts. Thoughts?

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's definitely interesting. I honestly don't know if people have failed SN due to vomiting. There seems to be some debate on that. I think even in one of the guides- the recommendation seems to be- if you vomit the first glass WITHOUT a second glass prepared- abandon the attempt... Moral of that story for me: prepare 2-3 glasses in case.

I think there's also the worry we might vomit after falling unconscious- so presumably can't consume the back up. Still- I don't think this seems to happen that quickly after drinking. I imagine by then- enough will have already been absorbed to do the job. I don't know though. All of it still frightens me but I guess following the protocol with regards to fasting, antiemetics and back up glasses seems wise.

 

[Someone123]

People who ingest sn and whose attempts fail often report vomiting many times over two days- there have been quite a few reports of vomiting causing sn attempts to fail, so I do doubt the 30% number in relation to sn.

 

[Mofreeko]

People who ingest sn and whose attempts fail often report vomiting many times over two days- there have been quite a few reports of vomiting causing sn attempts to fail, so I do doubt the 30% number in relation to sn.

Why would SN be special?

 

[Someone123]

Why would SN be special?

I doubt this number because quite a few people have reported surviving sn after vomiting.

 

[Mofreeko]

I doubt this number because quite a few people have reported surviving sn after vomiting.

Weird, I've seen quite the opposite. People who vomit yet still succeed. Someone even compiled a list:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/thre...-on-the-forum-as-a-cause-of-sn-failure.47986/

 

[WorthlessTrash]

I doubt this number because quite a few people have reported surviving sn after vomiting.

because they either called for help, were found and/or didn't take the second glass.

 

[Mofreeko]

because they either called for help, were found and/or didn't take the second glass.

Yes, so many people on here seem so preoccupied with vomiting = failure, when the vast majority of failures are due to being found or calling for help.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Yes, so many people on here seem so preoccupied with vomiting = failure, when the vast majority of failures are due to being found or calling for help.

I think they're just letting those 2 threads from those randos psych themselves out and be void of common sense, but what can you do? Well, besides just let them live indefinitely in their misery waiting for an "N" fairy to leave N under their pillow.

Though, I'd prefer them to be able to recover and not have to be on here in the first place, but only in an ideal world would that happen.

Just don't know how long it will take to die and EVENTUALLY someone will find you. We don't know whether the ppl that were helped would have died or not either. I just read someone ingested 20g on Reddit was found after an hr or so and still lived so it doesn't seem instant that you die it could be 12 hrs who knows right? I don't know what I can do.

We know that people who don't get helped would have died BECAUSE there are cases where so many people have successfully CTB'd with it. If it was not reliable, it wouldn't be harder to obtain SN and SN would not be blamed for suicide.

 

[Cathy Ames]

"ON AVERAGE 28%" means that sometimes it is more than that, possibly even quite a bit more than that. I would like to look at what the studies actually were (how they were done, etc.) so as to know how generalizable the results are.

I know it is unpopular here, and you do not want to hear it, but I do find it credible that someone who vomits immediately and then keeps vomiting over and over again could get enough of the SN out to survive. Does that typically happen? Maybe not. But that does not mean it is impossible. After all we sometimes vomit the contents of the upper small intestines. [If you've ever vomited bile, that bitter brown stuff, that's where it came from.]

 

[Mofreeko]

I think they're just letting those 2 threads from those randos psych themselves out and be void of common sense, but what can you do? Well, besides just let them live indefinitely in their misery waiting for an "N" fairy to leave N under their pillow.

I agree. It seems it just takes one anecdotal post that can't be proven to derail literal years worth of collected SN data on this site.

 

[Someone123]

when the vast majority of failures are due to being found or calling for help.

Calling for help shows that the pain was too much for them to endure even when they deparately want to leave this world to find peace, so this is a serious concern, because when the pain keeps going on and on and they are not close to passing out, what will some people do- at some point they need this pain to stop.

 

[Mofreeko]

Calling for help shows that the pain was too much for them to endure even when they deparately want to leave this world to find peace, so this is a serious concern, because when the pain keeps going on and on and they are not close to passing out, what will some people do- at some point they need this pain to stop.

Wow you're really determined to hate on SN. Panicking and calling for help is EXTREMELY common in ALL ctb attempts, even the beloved N.

 

[Jadzia]

Calling for help shows that the pain was too much for them to endure even when they deparately want to leave this world to find peace, so this is a serious concern, because when the pain keeps going on and on and they are not close to passing out, what will some people do- at some point they need this pain to stop.

Not necessarily. I've taken many overdoses from medication and called for help when SI kicked which was quite often straight away. I didn't suffer any ill effects from the overdoses until many hours later.

 

[Someone123]

Wow you're really determined to hate on SN.

Not at all, I just want to know the plusses and minuses so that I can reduce the chances of a failed attempt, so I want to get all of the information, good and bad. I will likely try using sn soon.

 

[Someone123]

Not necessarily. I've taken many overdoses from medication and called for help when SI kicked which was quite often straight away. I didn't suffer any ill effects from the overdoses until many hours later.

That's another reason to call but some people have reported that either a racing heart rate or bad nausea or headaches after taking sn have been reasons to call- meto, tylenol, and beta blockers can help with these, as well as benzos, but still pain can lead to calling and a failed attempt.

 

[Jadzia]

That's another reason to call but some people have reported that either a racing heart rate or bad nausea or headaches after taking sn have been reasons to call- meto, tylenol, and beta blockers can help with these, as well as benzos, but still pain can lead to calling and a failed attempt.

Yes I know, that's why I said not necessarily.

Its not a secret that SN causes those symptoms. I was just giving another reason why people call for help because you said calling for help was because the pain was too much for them to endure.

 

[Someone123]

Yes I know, that's why I said not necessarily.

Its not a secret that SN causes those symptoms. I was just giving another reason why people call for help because you said calling for help was because the pain was too much for them to endure.

It's a common reason, and the most relevant reason for people who are really determined to try to find peace, but it's true that this other reason is one of them.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Calling for help shows that the pain was too much for them to endure even when they deparately want to leave this world to find peace, so this is a serious concern, because when the pain keeps going on and on and they are not close to passing out, what will some people do- at some point they need this pain to stop.

No, calling for help determines that SI took over.

 

[Someone123]

No, calling for help determines that SI took over.

There are people who have reported here that they called 911 after taking sn due to a racing heart rate, stomach pain, head pain, or some combination of these things- or due to painful vomiting.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

There are people who have reported here that they called 911 after taking sn due to a racing heart rate, stomach pain, head pain, or some combination of these things- or due to painful vomiting.

Racing heart rate isn't pain. That's their SI kicking in.

Those people also likely didn't follow the protocol with the right meds.

 

[Someone123]

Racing heart rate isn't pain. That's their SI kicking in.

When it is severe it's terrifying to people- a very painful heart attack is not how most people want to go- it's not SI, it's a response to distressing symptoms.

It is better for people to learn from things that go wrong with Sn attempts, rather than to minimize them, so that people can have a better chance to find peace. So it's better to openly discuss issues that people have with Sn rather than to try to explain them away.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Racing heart rate isn't pain. That's their SI kicking in.

Those people also likely didn't follow the protocol with the right meds.

I imagine a racing heart is also the body desperately trying to make up for the fact that it's organs are being starved of oxygen. Trying to increase the blood flow so that more oxygen is pumped around- like with exercise. Still- I expect panic will also contribute to this.

Honestly- the rapid heart beat and more so- the breathlessness does trouble me... I've had very slight symptoms like that following a gallstone attack and it was very frightening... I did actually think it was a heart attack. I didn't ring for help then though- so I'm hoping I would be able to sit the symptoms out. At least I'd know why I suppose. That was one of the worst things with rapid onset chronic pain- when you don't know why it's happening.

I don't think any of us REALLY know how we'll react physically and mentally to a CTB attempt. I guess that's part of what makes it so scary.

 

[Justnotme]

It's definitely interesting. I honestly don't know if people have failed SN due to vomiting. There seems to be some debate on that. I think even in one of the guides- the recommendation seems to be- if you vomit the first glass WITHOUT a second glass prepared- abandon the attempt... Moral of that story for me: prepare 2-3 glasses in case.

I think there's also the worry we might vomit after falling unconscious- so presumably can't consume the back up. Still- I don't think this seems to happen that quickly after drinking. I imagine by then- enough will have already been absorbed to do the job. I don't know though. All of it still frightens me but I guess following the protocol with regards to fasting, antiemetics and back up glasses seems wise.

What do you think about wrapping your mouth with a scarf, for example, after taking nitrites? If vomiting occurs in an unconscious state and the mouth is covered with something, then we will choke on the vomit in which the poison is located, but in the unconscious state we will not feel that we will choke on vomiting, is it or not? What do you think?

 

[Forever Sleep]

What do you think about wrapping your mouth with a scarf, for example, after taking nitrites? If vomiting occurs in an unconscious state and the mouth is covered with something, then we will choke on the vomit in which the poison is located, but in the unconscious state we will not feel that we will choke on vomiting, is it or not? What do you think?

I think it would come out your nose... Sorry- horrible picture I know... Plus, I think- if you start finding it more difficult to get enough oxygen in, you will instinctively pull the scarf away. I know what you mean though. Being sick and possibly failing as a result is very worrying.

 

[bed]

"ON AVERAGE 28%" means that sometimes it is more than that, possibly even quite a bit more than that. I would like to look at what the studies actually were (how they were done, etc.) so as to know how generalizable the results are.

I know it is unpopular here, and you do not want to hear it, but I do find it credible that someone who vomits immediately and then keeps vomiting over and over again could get enough of the SN out to survive. Does that typically happen? Maybe not. But that does not mean it is impossible. After all we sometimes vomit the contents of the upper small intestines. [If you've ever vomited bile, that bitter brown stuff, that's where it came from.]

I looked up the thread and the study comes up as no longer found. https://publications.aap.org/HTTPHandlers/ArticlePdfHandler.ashx?journal=pediatrics

I agree with your first statement. In regards to your second, the LD50 of SN is extremely low compared to the average dose someone consumes to ctb. Even if you vomited say 80% of 25g you'd still be well above the ld50. Although the longer you are conscious the more time you have for SI to work its magic and for you to call for help and/or be found.

 

[Cathy Ames]

"ON AVERAGE 28%" means that sometimes it is more than that, possibly even quite a bit more than that.

I looked up the thread and the study comes up as no longer found. https://publications.aap.org/HTTPHandlers/ArticlePdfHandler.ashx?journal=pediatrics

I agree with your first statement. In regards to your second, the LD50 of SN is extremely low compared to the average dose someone consumes to ctb. Even if you vomited say 80% of 25g you'd still be well above the ld50. Although the longer you are conscious the more time you have for SI to work its magic and for you to call for help and/or be found.

Yes, I don't know how I did it, but I was able mess around enough on google to find the complete info. I wrote a thing but didn't bother posting. I'll paste it below. [If you would like to see the article, I can probably find it in my browser history. Just let me know.]

-------------------------------------
Okay, so what the guy was referring to were studies of ipecac cited in a 2003 Policy Statement. There was one study of 13 children with an average of 28%, and the complete range was 0%-78%. They also said that "data from adult volunteers" showed "ranges of 51% to 83% removal of the poisonous substance when ipecac is given at 5 minutes after ingestion." What this means in terms of SN attempts (the original question in the OP) is that one bout of vomiting is likely to leave behind at least 20% of the dose that you took. If you take the recommended (high) dose, then there would be enough left behind for it to kill you. Which we already know because that is the likely basis for the choice of such high dose. It's been discussed before.

Of course this does nothing at all in terms of guaranteeing that a person having severe, repeated bouts of vomiting will succeed in spite of it.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

When it is severe it's terrifying to people- a very painful heart attack is not how most people want to go- it's not SI, it's a response to distressing symptoms.

It is better for people to learn from things that go wrong with Sn attempts, rather than to minimize them, so that people can have a better chance to find peace. So it's better to openly discuss issues that people have with Sn rather than to try to explain them away.

Okay, please link me to several threads where SN survivors reported unbearable pain.

 

[Sapphire]

When it is severe it's terrifying to people- a very painful heart attack is not how most people want to go- it's not SI, it's a response to distressing symptoms.

I have had tachycardia for years. It doesn't feel like a heart attack. It doesn't cause any pain.

 

[stilhavinightmares]

Wow, thank you so much for sharing. This gives me a lot of hope.