Abortion and suicide

[casual_existence]

With abortion taking a major hit in the US I'm curious to hear people's opinions on abortion and suicide.

If we look at suicide then usually we're talking about someone that for all intents and purposes has the ability to make that choice.

If we look at fetuses as a living thing then perhaps they get that right too? Except they can't do anything. They're utterly helpless. The only one that can do anything is the mother.

Even if we were to consider fetuses as living it seems that most people just want to instill whatever order on some other person. It's the same as in suicide. We don't get a choice in whether we live or die it's whatever some rando wants for us.

At least when we take the fetus out of the equation it's "easy". The mother has rights and to take away those rights is blatantly against what the US supposedly stands for.

Even still when people want support for things they don't want to give it. The people all for life don't want to support life. How does that make any sense? I bet 99% of these people support the death penalty. Now I'm just pissed off. Anyway if you guys have anything else to say about abortion and suicide and how they're related please write whatever you may think. Whatever really. Even if you're anti abortion I want to hear it.

 

[sserafim]

I'm pro-choice. Abortion should be a human right, and so should the right to die. Everyone should have control over their own bodies and the right to do whatever they want with it. Banning abortion infringes upon women's reproductive rights, and goes against the ideals of freedom that America is supposedly built upon. It's crazy that in this country, fetuses have more rights than living, breathing people. It's literally becoming The Handmaid's Tale. Republicans only care about the fact that the fetus is born, they don't care about its quality of life. I feel like Republicans are heavily influenced by religious ideology and believe that all life is "sacred" and inherently valuable. They believe that all potential life should be born. They're misguided though, because fetuses don't even have consciousness, and therefore, can they even be considered to be alive? Nikki Haley says that abortion is "killing babies" but fetuses aren't babies. Life doesn't begin at conception.

 

[Ulrich]

On the pro-choice side, I think that a lot of their reasoning derives from their anti-natalism. From the pro-life side, it is a matter of expectancy. So from their perspective, it's arbitrary whether or not the foetus itself constitutes a person. Their view is that it is a potential person.
Anti-natalists already see reproduction as having negative value. I think that some accept that the foetus may become a potential person, but that person may suffer due to ill-circumstances (birthed into poverty, genetic disability, etc), and hence would be better off not existing at all. Pro-lifers would then proceed to call such cases marginal at best.

If you support anti-natalism, then naturally you are very likely to support abortion. I think that in their eyes they (pro-lifers) charge those who support abortion as hedonistic. 'It's your fault for having so much sex, deal with the consequences of unprotected sex,' or something along those lines.

 

[theboy]

is complicated

 

[sserafim]

is complicated

Wdym? Do you not support women's reproductive freedom and rights?

On the pro-choice side, I think that a lot of their reasoning derives from their anti-natalism. From the pro-life side, it is a matter of expectancy. So from their perspective, it's arbitrary whether or not the foetus itself constitutes a person. Their view is that it is a potential person.
Anti-natalists already see reproduction as having negative value. I think that some accept that the foetus may become a potential person, but that person may suffer due to ill-circumstances (birthed into poverty, genetic disability, etc), and hence would be better off not existing at all. Pro-lifers would then proceed to call such cases marginal at best.

If you support anti-natalism, then naturally you are very likely to support abortion. I think that in their eyes they (pro-lifers) charge those who support abortion as hedonistic. 'It's your fault for having so much sex, deal with the consequences of unprotected sex,' or something along those lines.

Yeah but just because "it is a potential person" isn't enough to force a woman to continue on in pregnancy and childbirth. What if she doesn't want it? It's living in her body (like a parasite lol) and it's her body her choice. No one should be forced to give birth if they don't want to.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I'm personally pro-choice when it comes to both of both abortion and suicide. People have the right to decide what they want to do with their own bodies. Nobody should be forced to suffer with the burden of existence or be forced to carry a child they don't want and/or aren't ready to raise. Making either illegal isn't going to prevent them both from happening anyway.

 

[pebpebpebpeb]

pro-choice. limiting abortions has been proven to lead people resorting to dangerous and shady techniques, which can harm them mentally and physically way more than any abortion.

i don't understand people who are pro-life. i don't feel much empathy for babies, especially those that are unborn. if they can be killed in a way that is quick and painless, and that benefits the person carrying it, i don't see why it should be stopped.

i wonder if this thread will show any pro-life yet pro-suicide individuals. i wonder if they exist.

 

[sserafim]

pro-choice. limiting abortions has been proven to lead people resorting to dangerous and shady techniques, which can harm them mentally and physically way more than any abortion.

i don't understand people who are pro-life. i don't feel much empathy for babies, especially those that are unborn. if they can be killed in a way that is quick and painless, and that benefits the person carrying it, i don't see why it should be stopped.

i wonder if this thread will show any pro-life yet pro-suicide individuals. i wonder if they exist.

They're not even babies lol, they're embryos and fetuses. "Abortion is killing babies " is an argument that Republicans use to generate empathy and sympathy for their cause

 

[Guy_Smiley]

A person's right to end their own life is not equatable to a fetus's right to live. A person does not live inside another person's body.

 

[DarkRange55]

I'm pro-choice. Abortion should be a human right, and so should the right to die. Everyone should have control over their own bodies and the right to do whatever they want with it. Banning abortion infringes upon women's reproductive rights, and goes against the ideals of freedom that America is supposedly built upon. It's crazy that in this country, fetuses have more rights than living, breathing people. It's literally becoming The Handmaid's Tale. Republicans only care about the fact that the fetus is born, they don't care about its quality of life. I feel like Republicans are heavily influenced by religious ideology and believe that all life is "sacred" and inherently valuable. They believe that all potential life should be born. They're misguided though, because fetuses don't even have consciousness, and therefore, can they even be considered to be alive? Nikki Haley says that abortion is "killing babies" but fetuses aren't babies. Life doesn't begin at conception.

Just a side note, crazy how: "Miscarriages are so common—one in five pregnancies end up in a miscarriage," says Arri Coomarasamy, a professor of gynecology at the University of Birmingham.

 

[sserafim]

A person's right to end their own life is not equatable to a fetus's right to live. A person does not live inside another person's body.

Literally. I don't know why this is so hard to understand for some people (cough cough Republicans and conservatives)

Just a side note, crazy how: "Miscarriages are so common—one in five pregnancies end up in a miscarriage," says Arri Coomarasamy, a professor of gynecology at the University of Birmingham.

What's the point of bringing this up? How is it relevant

 

[DarkRange55]

pro-choice. limiting abortions has been proven to lead people resorting to dangerous and shady techniques, which can harm them mentally and physically way more than any abortion.

i don't understand people who are pro-life. i don't feel much empathy for babies, especially those that are unborn. if they can be killed in a way that is quick and painless, and that benefits the person carrying it, i don't see why it should be stopped.

i wonder if this thread will show any pro-life yet pro-suicide individuals. i wonder if they exist.

When you criminalize something that isn't a real crime, you still create criminals. A little like the War on Drugs.

 

[theboy]

Wdym? Do you not support women's reproductive freedom and rights?

I agree with abortion but it is an issue that has many variables.

 

[DarkRange55]

Literally. I don't know why this is so hard to understand for some people (cough cough Republicans and conservatives)

What's the point of bringing this up? How is it relevant

It's more a side note. Some places have attempted to ban miscarriages in the past. I'm personally pro-choice. But just an interesting tidbit.

 

[sserafim]

I agree with abortion but it is an issue that has many variables.

Wdym "many variables?" What are they? I believe that if someone doesn't want to have a child they shouldn't be forced to give birth to it, period. It's different if the state is *forcing* abortions on people though but this won't happen in America lol

 

[theboy]

Wdym "many variables?" What are they? I believe that if someone doesn't want to have a child they shouldn't be forced to give birth to it, period. It's different if the state is *forcing* abortions on people though but this won't happen in America lol

I mean, it's not that easy, for example, when does life begin? after when is it safe to have an abortion? do we have the right to live? things like that.

 

[Ulrich]

Wdym "many variables?" What are they? I believe that if someone doesn't want to have a child they shouldn't be forced to give birth to it, period. It's different if the state is *forcing* abortions on people though but this won't happen in America lol

It's a Madonna-Whore dichotomy. To them, giving birth, raising a child, etc., are selfless acts which restore the chastity of the woman, or something like that. It's moreso traditionalism rather than anything overtly religious, although religion certainly underpins the entire conflict.

 

[sserafim]

It's a Madonna-Whore dichotomy. To them, giving birth, raising a child, etc., are selfless acts which restore the chastity of the woman, or something like that. It's traditionalism rather than religion, although religion certainly underpins the entire conflict.

Huh? I don't understand. Isn't s*x seen as dirty and impure? Why is giving birth not seen as such? I'm curious about this dichotomy…it seems so extreme and just strange in general

 

[Ulrich]

Huh? I don't understand. Isn't s*x seen as dirty and impure? Why is giving birth not seen as such? I'm curious about this dichotomy…it seems so extreme and just strange in general

Well, if sex is dirty and impure, so then birth would be a sort of cleansing process i.e ridding oneself of the knowledge of their sin, kind of like prostration. I think Schopenhauer said something along these lines, though I can't remember.

 

[Guy_Smiley]

Literally. I don't know why this is so hard to understand for some people (cough cough Republicans and conservatives)

They understand. They're just playing to the evangelical Christians because they need their votes. Without those votes, Republicans would be in trouble.

 

[DreamEnd]

Wdym "many variables?" What are they? I believe that if someone doesn't want to have a child they shouldn't be forced to give birth to it, period. It's different if the state is *forcing* abortions on people though but this won't happen in America lol

96% of scientists agree that life begins at conception. So technically it's a life. According to this, abortion would be taking this life away, without consent by the way.

 

[sserafim]

96% of scientists agree that life begins at conception. So technically it's a life. According to this, abortion would be taking this life away, without consent by the way.

Just because it's a "life" doesn't mean it should be birthed. What if the mom doesn't want it? It's living in her body like a parasite, she should have the right to do whatever she wants with it. It's occupying her space. Also what if the parents can't take care of it? Do you think that life should be born into situations where the parents clearly aren't prepared for and don't want it? My parents wanted kids and were prepared for them, but I wish that I could have been aborted. Never wanted this life experience anyways, it's a waste of time and energy imo

 

[DreamEnd]

Just because it's a "life" doesn't mean it should be birthed. What if the mom doesn't want it? It's living in her body like a parasite, she should have the right to do whatever she wants with it. It's occupying her space

Ok before I say this. I'm generally okay with abortion in most circumstances but just think of it this way.

What if the dad wants it? It's equally as his baby as it is moms? So just because it's in her body she should have the choice to get rid of it or not? What if she wants it and the father doesn't want it? Should he force her to get an abortion?
Assuming this was unplanned. You decided to have sex so assumingly you are responsible for the risks you took

Also biologically it isn't a parasite. It doesn't act how one would

 

[cryone]

Def support abortion. I will say though, it's reasonable that prolifers support the death penalty. an innocent person deserves to live (if they want) but not a heinous one, v different.

What if the dad wants it? It's equally as his baby as it is moms? So just because it's in her body she should have the choice to get rid of it or not? What if she wants it and the father doesn't want it? Should he force her to get an abortion?

personally w/ this id say if any party objects then it should be aborted. having a baby is a desire, not a necessity, so forcing an abortion is completely justified tbh. forcing parenthood upon hesitant n reluctant ppl can potentially ruin an entire life of an innocent child. In the end its rly abt prioritizing the life of the child, not abt meeting selfish demands of parents.

 

[DreamEnd]

Def support abortion. I will say though, it's reasonable that prolifers support the death penalty. an innocent person deserves to live (if they want) but not a heinous one, v different.


personally w/ this id say if any party objects then it should be aborted. a baby isnt a need but a want, so forcing an abortion is completely justified tbh. having one when a member doesn't want to inevitably hurts an innocent kid. In the end its rly abt prioritizing the life of the child, not abt meeting selfish demands of parents.

It doesn't always hurt the kid though? Some parents who initially wanted them aborted would fall in love with them again once they were born. And even if the kid grows up with a single mom is that worse than being dead? I mean if you look at life as a net negative where any sort of suffering should be prevented then I guess anti natalism is right but I'm not sure

 

[casual_existence]

Def support abortion. I will say though, it's reasonable that prolifers support the death penalty. an innocent person deserves to live (if they want) but not a heinous one, v different.


personally w/ this id say if any party objects then it should be aborted. having a baby is a desire, not a necessity, so forcing an abortion is completely justified tbh. forcing parenthood upon hesitant n reluctant ppl almost always harm an innocent childhood. In the end its rly abt prioritizing the life of the child, not abt meeting selfish demands of parents.

Doesn't death penalty and pro life have directly contradicting premises. If you're pro life you have to assume that there's some innate goodness to life. What happens to these supposed terrible people? What if it's not even their fault that they turned out like that? If life is inherently good then I don't see how anyone could support death penalty.

 

[cryone]

It doesn't always hurt the kid though? Some parents who initially wanted them aborted would fall in love with them again once they were born. And even if the kid grows up with a single mom is that worse than being dead? I mean if you look at life as a net negative where any sort of suffering should be prevented then I guess anti natalism is right but I'm not sure

yeah i realized i did an overgeneralization and posted it too soon b4 editing it. but point is, the potential of harm in these cases rly outweighs any chances of potentially offering a loving family. realistically, what percent of parents who initially wanted to abort a child ended up falling in love? what percent didn't? and out of those who didn't get that spark, how badly did they neglect their child? probably bad enough. ive heard too many cases. it's irrational at best to have a child when you don't want to. its gambling a life that isn't yours.

 

[casual_existence]

yeah i realized i did an overgeneralization and posted it too soon b4 editing it. but point is, the potential of harm in these cases rly outweighs any chances of potentially offering a loving family. realistically, what percent of parents who initially wanted to abort a child ended up falling in love? what percent didn't? and out of those who didn't get that spark, how badly did they neglect their child? probably bad enough. ive heard too many cases. it's irrational at best to have a child when you don't want to. its gambling a life that isn't yours.

I agree with this. Especially considering the situation that foster children end up in.

 

[DreamEnd]

yeah i realized i did an overgeneralization and posted it too soon b4 editing it. but point is, the potential of harm in these cases rly outweighs any chances of potentially offering a loving family. realistically, what percent of parents who initially wanted to abort a child ended up falling in love? what percent didn't? and out of those who didn't get that spark, how badly did they neglect their child? probably bad enough. ive heard too many cases. it's irrational at best to have a child when you don't want to. its gambling a life that isn't yours.

Well there are families who wanted to have the kid and neglected them even more than kids are neglected in a foster home. I don't think there is a correlation between not wanting a kid and treating them badly as a result. Perhaps some parents don't like their child but still treat them respectfully? Idk. And even if the child does have a bad childhood and ends up suicidal. Would they not just commit suicide as a result? We have plenty of teenage suicides nowadays. Idk. Why not give the kid a chance since they will always be able to ctb in the future if they wanted to? And they do that today

 

[bajanpescadorabioso]

With abortion taking a major hit in the US I'm curious to hear people's opinions on abortion and suicide.

If we look at suicide then usually we're talking about someone that for all intents and purposes has the ability to make that choice.

If we look at fetuses as a living thing then perhaps they get that right too? Except they can't do anything. They're utterly helpless. The only one that can do anything is the mother.

Even if we were to consider fetuses as living it seems that most people just want to instill whatever order on some other person. It's the same as in suicide. We don't get a choice in whether we live or die it's whatever some rando wants for us.

At least when we take the fetus out of the equation it's "easy". The mother has rights and to take away those rights is blatantly against what the US supposedly stands for.

Even still when people want support for things they don't want to give it. The people all for life don't want to support life. How does that make any sense? I bet 99% of these people support the death penalty. Now I'm just pissed off. Anyway if you guys have anything else to say about abortion and suicide and how they're related please write whatever you may think. Whatever really. Even if you're anti abortion I want to hear it.

I've been through an abortion and it makes me very sad, I feel a heavy weight every day. But I did it because I'm a person without any structure, I don't have a good life and I didn't want to subject such a good soul to an existence close to me that I only think about killing myself every day. I wouldn't want my son to go through what I went through with my mother, I wouldn't want years to pass and him to end up opting for the same thing I did, suicide. I think it's all about human beings having the right to make their own choices. If I were a better person, with an ounce of stability and someone to count on, I would want to have my son, it saddens me every day.