A thorough story on Shawn Shatto

[RainAndSadness]

If people had written to her "Stop!" instead of saying "Good luck hope you find peace" she may still have been alive.

She was 25 years old. Stop pretending to be pro-choice already. I think we know that you're not actually in favor of the right to die at this point.

 

[M]

If I handed over the peacefull pill handbook and said "good luck, hope you find peace" to a suicidal friend or person, I would consider myself as assisting that suicide. So perhaps my definition is a bit too superficial.

This place is about offering a choice. I've gone through every single post by Shawn and I didn't see anyone encouraging her to commit suicide in any way. I've said many times that I do feel for the mother and the family, but leading a crusade against the forum is only going to hurt the members that are here.

 

[Shamana]

You are missing the point entirely. I am quite sure she loved her child. I am also quite sure people here are some of the most empathetic you will find on Earth. The problem is she has chosen this forum and it's members as her focus of blame for her daughter's loss. It's an incredibly common things people do. They look for a target and put all their energy into punishing it in order to cope with their grief. She couldn't save her daughter so by proxy she will "save" others and HURT anyone who she decides is the bad guy. It's classic crusader syndrome. I've seen it over and over in life in all kinds of situations. They never admit it. They dig in harder the most someone tries to get them to face their feelings. It HURTS innocent people in the long run every single time. Being frustrated by that behavior isn't a lack of empathy.

She probably feels that if she helped shut down this site it might prevent alot of young people's suicide which may possibly be true. From a parent's point of view that's a positive.

 

[RainAndSadness]

She probably feels that if she helped shut down this site it might prevent alot of young people's suicide which may possibly be true. From a parent's point of view that's a positive.

From a suicidal adults point of view, that's a negative. Odd, hm. Despite, this forum already bans minors. Shawn was an adult, even older than me. What's your point?

 

[Shamana]

This place is about offering a choice. I've gone through every single post by Shawn and I didn't see anyone encouraging her to commit suicide in any way. I've said many times that I do feel for the mother and the family, but leading a crusade against the forum is only going to hurt the members that are here.

So if someone says they are about to commit suicide. Can you write "Please reconsider" or "I don't think you should do this" without members getting up in arms and wanting you banned?

If you can only write "good luck with that. Hope you find peace" then the amount of input you can make is quite limited.

 

[M]

She probably feels that if she helped shut down this site it might prevent alot of young people's suicide which may possibly be true. From a parent's point of view that's a positive.

...but that's a skewed and one-sided opinion. Many people have come here to find a method, but many will not end up going through with it. You can say that this forum has saved many lives by allowing those people to make these decisions on their own rather than shoving a pro-life ideology down their throat and giving them empty platitudes which is not going to help them at all.

 

[Shamana]

She was 25 years old. Stop pretending to be pro-choice already. I think we know that you're not actually in favor of the right to die at this point.

I'm in favour of legalizing Euthansia. I'm not a supporter of helping all adults commit suicide no matter what their reason is.

 

[AnnihilatedAnna]

I'm in favour of legalizing Euthansia. I'm not a supporter of helping any adult commit suicide no matter what their reason is.

May I ask why you are here?

 

[RainAndSadness]

I'm in favour of legalizing Euthansia. I'm not a supporter of helping any adult commit suicide no matter what their reason is.

Isn't Euthanasia nothing else than helping adult people to commit suicide?

May I ask why you are here?

I would also love to know.

 

[Shamana]

Isn't Euthanasia nothing else than helping adult people to commit suicide?

There are restrictions

May I ask why you are here?

Why do you think?


Maybe that is something we should discuss pr PM since I don't want to make this thread about me.

 

[RainAndSadness]

There are restrictions

Which restrictions? And why are you opposed to assisted suicide? We're finally coming closer to your pro-life intentions I think.

 

[Kikoo Loool]

Isn't Euthanasia nothing else than helping adult people to commit suicide?



I would also love to know.

Euthanasia means oblitering useless (from a capitalistic point ov view) people.

 

[AnnihilatedAnna]

Euthanasia means oblitering useless (from a capitalistic point ov view) people.

Wait what?

 

[RainAndSadness]

Euthanasia means oblitering useless (from a capitalistic point ov view) people.

Euthanasia is just a different word for assisted suicide in modern context.

"Euthanasia is the practice of intentionally ending a life to relieve pain and suffering." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia

 

[color_me_gone]

pass judgement on whether Shawn's mother had real love for her or not

I am 67 years old.
I helped raise two stepchildren who are now grown, living on their own, married, working and successful.
I feel that gives me some qualifications to judge this mother.
Shawn had a plethora of problems, which indicates bad parenting and lack of parental love.
Shawn had a stepfather, which is difficult, which means the mother had to work even harder.
Shawn was failing in college, which is why she had to drop out.
Her parents told her she had better get a job, or will be thrown out of the house.
That might be ok for a stable person, but not for someone already inundated with problems.
Does that sound like real love?
Shawn mother didn't have a clue her daughter was suicidal, even with all her problems.
She was emotionally disconnected with her daughter.
Does that sound like real love?
She want to put the onus on this forum, which is helpful to many, rather than being introspective.
Does that sound like real love?

 

[calendulo]

Right to die activists pretend to defend human rights, but actually I think them are the insiders of pharmaceutical industry.

 

[Kikoo Loool]

Euthanasia is just a different word for assisted suicide in modern context.

"Euthanasia is the practice of intentionally ending a life to relieve pain and suffering." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia

This is a lie. In all countries who legalize euthanasia, suicidal people are excluded.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Right to die activists pretend to defend human rights, but actually I think them are the insiders of pharmaceutical industry.

Thanks for the straw man attack. I didn't know I'm an insider of the pharma-industry but I'm glad you exposed me.

This is a lie. In all countries who legalize euthanasia, suicidal people are excluded.

That's not a lie, that's the literal definition of euthanasia. The guidelines to assisted suicide are very elitist and strict in most countries that legalized euthanasia but - it's still the official definition of that term. Please don't imply that I'm lying when I'm not.

 

[AnnihilatedAnna]

This is a lie. In all countries who legalize euthanasia, suicidal people are excluded.

Not mental pain and suffering. Euthanasia is often for terminal diseases and things like that.

 

[oopswronglife]

Thanks for the strawman attack. I didn't know I'm an insider of the pharma-industry, glad you exposed me.

Hey everyone we have a hookup now! @RainAndSadness can get you anything you need. Pills, capsules, suppositories. No order too big or small. I'm running low on Ibuprom so put me down for a bottle. Saves me a trip out.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Hey everyone we have a hookup now! @RainAndSadness can get you anything you need. Pills, capsules, suppositories. No order to big or small. I'm running low on Ibuprom so put me down for a bottle. Saves me a trip out.

I knew there was a reason why the atmosphere in this forum changed so much since June 2019... in a negative way. If you don't consider yourself as an advocate for the right to die, then what exactly do you identify as? And why do you browse a forum that is obviously in favor of the right to die? You're not pro-choice, aren't you?

 

[oopswronglife]

knew there was a reason why the atmosphere changed so much since June 2019. In a negative way. If you don't consider yourself as an advocate for the right to die, what exactly do you identify as? You're not pro-choice, aren't you?

Just making sure this wasn't a shot at me given my join date. You do know I am on your side in this and my comments reflecting that right?

I've seen an awful lot of people being in fight mode and interpreting innocent comments and even support in the opposite way and lashing back. This felt a tad like that so want to be clear and hope I was wrong.

 

[calendulo]

Thanks for the straw man attack. I didn't know I'm an insider of the pharma-industry but I'm glad you exposed me.

I do not be clear about straw man attack but does not sound good to me.........................It just was an opinion.
No offense.

 

[Shamana]

Which restrictions? And why are you opposed to assisted suicide? We're finally coming closer to your pro-life intentions I think.

There usually has be documented chronicity in mental and somatic illness for euthanasia and a "objetively" hopeless situation.

And yes, I probably am more pro-life than the average SS member. Wouldn't it be boring if we all agreed?

It seems that because I've expressed that I don't support assisted suicide for any adult, whatever the reason, I've been given a warning for proselytizing. So It doesn't seem that I can be a part of this discussion anymore without being banned.

This is a lie. In all countries who legalize euthanasia, suicidal people are excluded.

Not in Belgium.

 

[oopswronglife]

o It doesn't seem that I can be a part of this discussion anymore without being banned.

This is an unreasonable reaction from you and you aren't a victim here. You seem to have a devil's advocate debate style and that can obviously upset some people when the topic is so serious. None of us here need lectures on empathy or seeing her mother's side of it. We get it. We are human beings who have lost and suffer grief just as she has. It's not wrong of us to oppose the attacks. It's not wrong of us to wish for equal rights. My personal view is anyone can stop living for any reason at any time. It's the ultimate final human right. That doesn't mean it's always reasonable or smart to do so and if you pay attention you will find suicidal people to be some of the most empathetic and supportive people around at the core. I joined recently yet, but I have read this place as a luker since it began and despite growing pains it continues to be the same place it always was...one of love and support at the end of the day.

 

[Shamana]

This is an unreasonable reaction from you and you aren't a victim here. You seem to have a devil's advocate debate style and that can obviously upset some people when the topic is so serious. None of us here need lectures on empathy or seeing her mother's side of it. We get it. We are human beings who have lost and suffer grief just as she has. It's not wrong of us to oppose the attacks. It's not wrong of us to wish for equal rights. My personal view is anyone can stop living for any reason at any time. It's the ultimate final human right. That doesn't mean it's always reasonable or smart to do so and if you pay attention you will find suicidal people to be some of the most empathetic and supportive people around at the core. I joined recently yet, but I have read this place as a luker since it began and despite growing pains it continues to be the same place it always was...one of love and support at the end of the day.

No i have been giving a warning from the admin. So I can't express my views in this thread anymore without risking being banned. I think on a topic as serious as suicide it's pretty good having different point of views. Some disagree with me completely that's fine. Some agree with it's also fine. It's all part of having a discussion.

 

[calendulo]

No i have been giving a warning from the admin. So I can't express my views in this thread anymore without risking being banned. I think on a topic as serious as suicide it's pretty good having different point of views. Some disagree with me completely that's fine. Some agree with it's also fine. It's all part of having a discussion.

I am agree about discussion .............but I already had banned you about piranha's thread.

 

[oopswronglife]

So I can't express my views in this thread anymore without risking being banned

Again you are being dramatic. You can express your views. You are just being warned not to beat the dead horse and preach pro-life (which is a really unfortunate name as its not at all as kind a position as it sounds) talking points which you were doing even if you don't realize it. Now you are complaining that you cannot complain. It's entirely unreasonable to walk into a place that is being mischaracterized and attacked and say "But they have a point and we should all admit it!"

Different views is one thing. Being contrarian for it's own sake, and making it about you is another. Nobody here NEEDS to understand empathy and her side of things. We already do, disagree with her behavior, and have made that clear. At this point it just feels like you want to argue for your own gratification or feeling of winning.

 

[RainAndSadness]

No i have been giving a warning from the admin. So I can't express my views in this thread anymore without risking being banned. I think on a topic as serious as suicide it's pretty good having different point of views. Some disagree with me completely that's fine. Some agree with it's also fine. It's all part of having a discussion.

The name of this forum is literally sanctioned-suicide, right. Why are you complaining? You said that this forum could be responsible for the death of young people, you defended the outrageous claims of Shawns mother about the forum, you said you oppose euthanasia, which is all about ending suffering and pain and you said we should tell people to rethink their choice if they're about to commit suicide. I feel like this isn't the right place for you if you're opposing the autonomy and freedom of an individual to commit suicide.

 

[Shamana]

Again you are being dramatic. You can express your views. You are just being warned not to beat the dead horse and preach pro-life (which is a really unfortunate name as its not at all as kind a position as it sounds) talking points which you were doing even if you don't realize it. Now you are complaining that you cannot complain.

Different views is one thing. Being contrarian for it's own sake, and making it about you is another. Nobody here NEEDS to understand empathy and her side of things. We already do, disagree with it, and have made that clear. At this point it just feels like you want to argue for your own gratification or feeling of winning.

No I literally can't express my views without being banned. That is excatly the same as not being allowed to express my views. So perhaps I should just lie about my views or be passive member of the forum. And everyone here is beating a dead horse. It seems to me anyway.