A semi-response to a youtuber criticizing the site

[Mr Myemna]

The video in question is that made by youtuber Tantacrul, in which he makes the unsubstantiated claim that all who encourage those to live life are good, and all those who suggest the alternative are preying on the "vulnurable", the people who can't make their own decisions
i made a comment for the those who make the bullshit claim that the vast majority of suicide survivors are glad they're alive, which to my current knowledge has not been yet substantiated:


"Id love to provide another view from another suicide survivor here,
I have done some research on the topic, found tools and a place and time to do it, when the day came i made my attempt, i made sure to wreck the house so my fear of my family at the time would motivate me to finish the attempt (doing things against you SI requires a great mental effort regardless of how much you want it), and somewhat succeeded, if i had chosen a better location and wasn't jerked awake i wouldn't have failed,

I cried nonstop for the days to come, not because I had some secret chakra unlocked in my soul that makes me value life differently, but because the pain of failure is so great, then i had to experience my family's bereavement for weeks to come, countless exorcisms after, they decided to take me to psychiatrist, after having countless conversations, countless hours of bullshit mental gymnastics to get me to believe that i actually want to live, they ruled that i need to be taken to a psych ward, and that, was a very abhorrent experience, the loss of your freedom, being drugged, the constant judgement and belittlement, i had to lie to get out.

And now here i am, time had passed.
Do i regret it and i finally value my life ? No. The myth of most people regretting suicide after they attempt it is just that, a myth. Most people if you spend time talking to them are traumatized because of the pain, they don't want to experience dying again, but by no means do they not want to die. And small portion of us still seeks to achieve death regardless of the pain it causes us,
Because we were already convinced that we want that based on our values and experiences, we value the possibilities of life ourselves and with others, and we judge that those possibilities based on their chance and effort required are not something which we seek to achieve, nor do we want people to push their convictions upon us.

In conclusion, it would be great if people would tell their loved ones about their plans to end their life, but then again, most communities would completely overwrite this person's will once they find this to be the case, it would be better if a person had the option to end their life at any point regardless of their health, in that way they don't have to fear being compromised, and would be more likely to open up and experience the many different viewpoints there is.

An ideal state of things would be if a person judging their life to not be worth living that they get a period of time to word themselves out, and once they express themselves, it should only be up to them at last to decide whether they will continue living or not.

The "young" get exposed to many viewpoints throughout their life, just as they get people encouraging them to live, they get people encouraging them to die, while both could be considered manipulation, and so are many other human interactions, the underlying problem really is that people are not granted the autonomy to do with their life as they please, we should start accepting that we do not own people and that they can choose to die just as they choose to live, in that way they wouldn't be encouraged to die in secret, possibly by the use of extremely violent methods.

This site allows to experience the individual autonomy which we are so often denied, we wish we would be allowed to get a physician assisted suicide instead, but that's unfortunately not an option for many of us, so at the very least we get the knowledge sufficient to prevent us from experiencing the blinding pain of failure.

People need to understand that the claim that life should be prolonged regardless of a person's wishes is not self-sufficient"


I hope to hear your opinions

 

[Forever Sleep]

This is so well voiced and so personal. I really hope he reads it. I hope more people contact him with their own stories- so he starts to see that EVERYONE on here has a past that lead them to this point. We're NOT here to encourage each other to 'just do it'. We're here to listen and support one another because no one else seems to know how to.

 

[Escapee]

People need to understand that the claim that life should be prolonged regardless of a person's wishes is not self-sufficient"

i never see it (denying one's right to die ) any differently from holocaust. it is the most barbaric and sub human act.

 

[Kattt]

I don't see him donating his YouTube bucks to a suicide prevention charity either.

 

[lukas19]

Whatever his intention was i think it has backfired badly, the surge of new members after his video was released was unprecedented.
A lot of younger people joined.

 

[OutOfTheVoid]

Whatever his intention was i think it has backfired badly, the surge of new members after his video was released was unprecedented.
A lot of younger people joined.

can confirm personally, i learned about this site from that video and here i am now. ive actually been a fan of tantacrul for a while, i love his other videos and his work on overhauling musescore is incredible, but needless to say i did not agree with that video. very interesting coinicidence that i saw it during a particularly suicidal point in my life, when i had already arrived at a very similar philosophy as that of this site. honestly im grateful ngl im very happy about finding this site, ironically its making my life more tolerable for me for the time being

 

[crypt]

This site allows to experience the individual autonomy which we are so often denied,

Can agree on this. I've just joined this website but after looking around for a while, I agree that this site is crucial for people to be able to express themselves in a way that they won't be judged. I feel like the youtuber although technically did this with "good intentions", he fails to see the other side in which the side of the users of this site. People want to hold control over their life in this world which is taking our freedoms away at a rapid rate (freedom of privacy, expression, etc). One way of thinking may not be a perfect fit for another person but that's what makes people unique. This site allows people to express their discomfort and plans without the fear of being shunned like the rest of society.

Although me personally, I believe that CTB should not be the first solution and highly discourage it (hypocritical I know), I do not judge people for wanting to or acting upon those actions as they control their lives, not me, not anyone else. Only them

With all that being said, I hope everyone's day gets at least a little bit better and I am glad to be accepted into this forum.

 

[UKscotty]

Stop giving that joker any air time. No one cares about his stupid video except a few people on here who were triggered by it. SS is always in the media, so its nothing new.

Ignore it, move on and dont give them free advertising.

 

[Mr Myemna]

Yeah but it was a child. A fucking child man. Just like me and I found my way here too.
I'm not even an adult I'm deleting my account because y'all are seriously ill and I only came here out of morbid curiosity from his video. You're never wrong for reaching out for help. Don't let people tell you that. But this website really shouldn't exist. If you're okay with edging people on to ctb or giving them methods to ctb, that makes you all murderes. Maybe y'all shouldn't have been born if you want "out" so bad but you're either here or your not. Live your life and make the best of it or leave without involving anyone. This site involves minors and many others. You're all rubbing off onto each other and somehow here it's normalized to drag each other into the mud. Anyway. Goodbye. Minors and others, get off. Go get help please. This isn't what your life was meant for. Your "si" is just life. It'll be your time soon enough.

i'm not sure if you'll reply to this, this is just for anyone who comes across this in the future:

a child he was indeed, but the problem isn't really the site itself, but it's the knowledge that he can't have a choice in the matter, maybe the solution is to have people given the option to catch the bus, in that way they wouldn't fear being forcefully hosptitalised and denied their freedom, they would be more likely to have their family know of their plans, to have them on the same page, so they can hopefully share with them other ways they can live on.

The solution to the problem isn't to further encroach on our freedom, we're already forced to use extremely difficult methods instead of leaving in peace, the site's shutdown will only force us to make attempts without proper knowledge, and risk us having to deal with the consequences of failure

A site offering people the help they need to excersise their individual freedom shouldn't be shutdown for a social failure

I really hope that people would stop making the exit much harder to find....


I quote from Vol:1 of: NO! Against Adult Surpremacy:

There are additional reasons to be suspicious of the common impulse to accept research that seems to confirm adult assumptions about children. Dismissing out of hand the possibility that children could exercise greater control over their lives is attractive, easy, and convenient. It is convenient because it is easier for adults to deal with children if children have few state-enforceable rights that can be mobilized against adults when adults attempt to control their lives against their wishes. Many adults also tend to just really like the idea that children are child-like and profoundly unadult-like: that they are cute, innocent, irresponsible, and dependent without the possibility of autonomy. Educator and child rights' advocate John Holt writes:

When one person sees and deals with another not as a unique person but as an example of a type, whether Celebrity, Black, Sex Symbol, Great Genius, Artist, Saint, or whatever, he diminishes that person and makes it hard for any natural relationship to grow between them. This is what we do to children when we see them as Cute, Adorable, Innocent. For the real child before us we substitute some idea of Childhood that we have in our minds and deal with that. Often, when we label someone in this way, we invest him with magical properties, sometimes bad, sometimes good . . Men often do this to women they consider beautiful . . Having turned the child into an ideal abstraction, many parents and teachers tend to look at him much as Rocket Control in Houston looks at a moon shot. They have a trajectory (life) all mapped out for this child, and they are constantly monitoring him to see whether he is on the path or whether he needs a little boost from this rocket (psychologist) here or a sideways push from that rocket (learning specialist) there . . They have their own precise notions of what a child should be. They tend to slip very easily into condescending sentimentality as I have described.

 

[Escapee]

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/members/mr-myemna.42125/

The video in question is that made by youtuber Tantacrul, in which he makes the unsubstantiated claim that all who encourage those to live life are good, and all those who suggest the alternative are preying on the "vulnurable", the people who can't make their own decisions
i made a comment for the those who make the bullshit claim that the vast majority of suicide survivors are glad they're alive, which to my current knowledge has not been yet substantiated:


"Id love to provide another view from another suicide survivor here,
I have done some research on the topic, found tools and a place and time to do it, when the day came i made my attempt, i made sure to wreck the house so my fear of my family at the time would motivate me to finish the attempt (doing things against you SI requires a great mental effort regardless of how much you want it), and somewhat succeeded, if i had chosen a better location and wasn't jerked awake i wouldn't have failed,

I cried nonstop for the days to come, not because I had some secret chakra unlocked in my soul that makes me value life differently, but because the pain of failure is so great, then i had to experience my family's bereavement for weeks to come, countless exorcisms after, they decided to take me to psychiatrist, after having countless conversations, countless hours of bullshit mental gymnastics to get me to believe that i actually want to live, they ruled that i need to be taken to a psych ward, and that, was a very abhorrent experience, the loss of your freedom, being drugged, the constant judgement and belittlement, i had to lie to get out.

And now here i am, time had passed.
Do i regret it and i finally value my life ? No. The myth of most people regretting suicide after they attempt it is just that, a myth. Most people if you spend time talking to them are traumatized because of the pain, they don't want to experience dying again, but by no means do they not want to die. And small portion of us still seeks to achieve death regardless of the pain it causes us,
Because we were already convinced that we want that based on our values and experiences, we value the possibilities of life ourselves and with others, and we judge that those possibilities based on their chance and effort required are not something which we seek to achieve, nor do we want people to push their convictions upon us.

In conclusion, it would be great if people would tell their loved ones about their plans to end their life, but then again, most communities would completely overwrite this person's will once they find this to be the case, it would be better if a person had the option to end their life at any point regardless of their health, in that way they don't have to fear being compromised, and would be more likely to open up and experience the many different viewpoints there is.

An ideal state of things would be if a person judging their life to not be worth living that they get a period of time to word themselves out, and once they express themselves, it should only be up to them at last to decide whether they will continue living or not.

The "young" get exposed to many viewpoints throughout their life, just as they get people encouraging them to live, they get people encouraging them to die, while both could be considered manipulation, and so are many other human interactions, the underlying problem really is that people are not granted the autonomy to do with their life as they please, we should start accepting that we do not own people and that they can choose to die just as they choose to live, in that way they wouldn't be encouraged to die in secret, possibly by the use of extremely violent methods.

This site allows to experience the individual autonomy which we are so often denied, we wish we would be allowed to get a physician assisted suicide instead, but that's unfortunately not an option for many of us, so at the very least we get the knowledge sufficient to prevent us from experiencing the blinding pain of failure.

People need to understand that the claim that life should be prolonged regardless of a person's wishes is not self-sufficient"


I hope to hear your opinions

The video in question is that made by youtuber Tantacrul, in which he makes the unsubstantiated claim that all who encourage those to live life are good, and all those who suggest the alternative are preying on the "vulnurable", the people who can't make their own decisions
i made a comment for the those who make the bullshit claim that the vast majority of suicide survivors are glad they're alive, which to my current knowledge has not been yet substantiated:


"Id love to provide another view from another suicide survivor here,
I have done some research on the topic, found tools and a place and time to do it, when the day came i made my attempt, i made sure to wreck the house so my fear of my family at the time would motivate me to finish the attempt (doing things against you SI requires a great mental effort regardless of how much you want it), and somewhat succeeded, if i had chosen a better location and wasn't jerked awake i wouldn't have failed,

I cried nonstop for the days to come, not because I had some secret chakra unlocked in my soul that makes me value life differently, but because the pain of failure is so great, then i had to experience my family's bereavement for weeks to come, countless exorcisms after, they decided to take me to psychiatrist, after having countless conversations, countless hours of bullshit mental gymnastics to get me to believe that i actually want to live, they ruled that i need to be taken to a psych ward, and that, was a very abhorrent experience, the loss of your freedom, being drugged, the constant judgement and belittlement, i had to lie to get out.

And now here i am, time had passed.
Do i regret it and i finally value my life ? No. The myth of most people regretting suicide after they attempt it is just that, a myth. Most people if you spend time talking to them are traumatized because of the pain, they don't want to experience dying again, but by no means do they not want to die. And small portion of us still seeks to achieve death regardless of the pain it causes us,
Because we were already convinced that we want that based on our values and experiences, we value the possibilities of life ourselves and with others, and we judge that those possibilities based on their chance and effort required are not something which we seek to achieve, nor do we want people to push their convictions upon us.

In conclusion, it would be great if people would tell their loved ones about their plans to end their life, but then again, most communities would completely overwrite this person's will once they find this to be the case, it would be better if a person had the option to end their life at any point regardless of their health, in that way they don't have to fear being compromised, and would be more likely to open up and experience the many different viewpoints there is.

An ideal state of things would be if a person judging their life to not be worth living that they get a period of time to word themselves out, and once they express themselves, it should only be up to them at last to decide whether they will continue living or not.

The "young" get exposed to many viewpoints throughout their life, just as they get people encouraging them to live, they get people encouraging them to die, while both could be considered manipulation, and so are many other human interactions, the underlying problem really is that people are not granted the autonomy to do with their life as they please, we should start accepting that we do not own people and that they can choose to die just as they choose to live, in that way they wouldn't be encouraged to die in secret, possibly by the use of extremely violent methods.

This site allows to experience the individual autonomy which we are so often denied, we wish we would be allowed to get a physician assisted suicide instead, but that's unfortunately not an option for many of us, so at the very least we get the knowledge sufficient to prevent us from experiencing the blinding pain of failure.

People need to understand that the claim that life should be prolonged regardless of a person's wishes is not self-sufficient"


I hope to hear your opinions

@Mr Myemna i believe in every word you said i truly wish you were leader of my country why do i have to be governed by people who deny me my god given right i need answer please answer please

 

[epic]

Terrible what happened to you.

I agree with everything you said except -

it would be better if a person had the option to end their life at any point regardless of their health

Some people go through temporary and/or a tolerable phase of hardship. Financial crunch, relationship problems can mean a world to someone at that moment but are solvable and/or something that can be lived with.

 

[Mr Myemna]

Terrible what happened to you.

I agree with everything you said except -

Some people go through temporary and/or a tolerable phase of hardship. Financial crunch, relationship problems can mean a world to someone at that moment but are solvable and/or something that can be lived with.

That wouldn't be likely to happen if that person got through a screening phase, not to determine whether the doctors judge their life to be worth living, but to determine if they're in cognition limiting circumstances (depression doesn't limit your cognitive ability, that has been proven to be a myth).

it's up for the person to deceide wether their life is worth continuing or not based on their value system, others only have to make sure they're aware of their options and the different possibilities they have, if they choose to reject their other options, they should be allowed to make their decisions.

and more to that, one person's indecisiveness should not force the other to live when they choose to die.

 

[ZRA]

Can agree on this. I've just joined this website but after looking around for a while, I agree that this site is crucial for people to be able to express themselves in a way that they won't be judged. I feel like the youtuber although technically did this with "good intentions", he fails to see the other side in which the side of the users of this site. People want to hold control over their life in this world which is taking our freedoms away at a rapid rate (freedom of privacy, expression, etc). One way of thinking may not be a perfect fit for another person but that's what makes people unique. This site allows people to express their discomfort and plans without the fear of being shunned like the rest of society.

Although me personally, I believe that CTB should not be the first solution and highly discourage it (hypocritical I know), I do not judge people for wanting to or acting upon those actions as they control their lives, not me, not anyone else. Only them

With all that being said, I hope everyone's day gets at least a little bit better and I am glad to be accepted into this forum.

I totally get what you're saying. In my opinion, though, that youtuber did not have good intentions. He did his expose out of a feeling of righteousness, and I think in his mind he was helping people, but that's not really what having good intentions means to me. If he had actually had good intentions, he would have been a lot more thorough in investigating whether he was actually making a positive impact, as opposed to charging ahead with faulty assumptions.

To me, honestly, it seems like the idea of helping people served more as a post-hoc justification of his immediate emotional response to himself and others than as a guiding principle. I say this even feeling like some of his criticisms did have some weight, but overall the video was extremely tone-deaf imo.

 

[Mr Myemna]

I totally get what you're saying. In my opinion, though, that youtuber did not have good intentions. He did his expose out of a feeling of righteousness, and I think in his mind he was helping people, but that's not really what having good intentions means to me. If he had actually had good intentions, he would have been a lot more thorough in investigating whether he was actually making a positive impact, as opposed to charging ahead with faulty assumptions.

To me, honestly, it seems like the idea of helping people served more as a post-hoc justification of his immediate emotional response to himself and others than as a guiding principle. I say this even feeling like some of his criticisms did have some weight, but overall the video was extremely tone-deaf imo.

it doesn't really strike you as you of character for the type of content he makes, he actually nailed his own formula, this video gained the most views he has gotten from a video since 4 years, and it's only been around in one month.

while i can't really say what his intentions are, i'd like to point out that these types of people, the reactionary type, in their persuit of topics to tackles they stumble upon topics that generally pertain misery, that trigger a strong emotional response, and with that and the use of some Fluff and rhetoric, they're able to blame the systemic failures that caused the aformentioned misery to occur in the first place on somethings or someones that are just acting in response to it.

they give people something to react to (and hence the naming: reactionary), somethings that's easy to bite, to take in without jeopardising their hegemonic worldview, they give the common people an enemy to rally against, to feel some kind of reward after they take down the enemy, to feel good, while the systems that caused the "enemy" to emerge in the first place remain intact, which only repeats the cycle again.

P.S: i'll provide examples of how this plays out in bigger media if anyone's interested just reply !