Meditation guide

Meditation guide

Always was, is, and always shall be.
Jun 22, 2020
6,089
If I'm honest even I don't know enough about mental health to be able to say if it can be cured or reversed, especially things like psychosis or schizophrenia.
If those could be cured why do people have them? There are some drugs but those are far from perfect.
I mean from what I can tell most of us are here because family friends or peers weren't exactly the nicest of people (if I'm going to be nice about it)
Then maybe we should talk about all the various reasons people do it. I'm here strictly due to physical problems for example. Maybe for most younger people than me it's due to relationship or family problems. For some it's due to a loved one dying which relates to depression. For someone I knew it was a lifelong battle with horrible depression. The list goes on and on. One person here was about to be sentenced to a long jail sentence. Others have talked about being homeless.
 
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esse_est_percipi

Enlightened
Jul 14, 2020
1,747
Some say it's unnatural,
Who gets to define what's 'natural' or 'unnatural'?

And anyway, 'natural' isn't synonymous with 'good' or 'desirable'.
There are lots of natural things which are brutal, cruel and undesirable.
Heck, religion is built upon subverting and crushing people's natural desires and impulses.
 
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inflammed123

Student
Sep 9, 2020
117
You can google "fixthe26" and you will find a website that is trying to take legal action against SS and want to shut down this website. I think it's unfair because there's no another forum where you can freely discuss suicide methods without consequences. If FBI forces this website to shut down, they are violating the First Amendment. I know pro-lifers are going to read this thread. If you are pro-lifers that read this thread, SS is meant to freely express suicidal thoughts, feelings, suicide plans, and stuff without censorship. You keep saying that this website is a pro-suicide forum. This isn't true. There's a big difference between encouragement and education. For example, one of the most famous suicide cases is that a 17 year old girl repeatedly told and pressured her 18 year old boyfriend to kill himself, even though he wasn't 100% sure if he wanted to die. This is the definition of encouragement. SS members don't encourage others to kill themselves, they just provide educational instructions on how to kill themselves correctly. It's totally up to members to decide when to ctb and which ctb method they want. No one forces them to ctb or stay alive. It's their choice their life. One thing I want to say about website is that they don't allow minors to make SS accounts. I know that doesn't stop them from viewing this website. But the point is that nearly everyone, especially adults, should have the right to die. They didn't ask to be born. You have no right to force suicidal people to stay alive. You're gonna say, "Oh suicide is selfish." I disagree with this statement because suicidal people already are in a lot of pain and they are already very brave enough to stay alive. Some people keep having suicidal thoughts for 30-40 years and are still alive. They are very brave to do that. If they decide to ctb, you should let them to die. Wouldn't you want to see your loved ones suffering? Depression is not a temporary illness. It's much complicated than you think. Many people, like me, are treatment-resistant depression. It means that meds for depression don't work, therapy doesn't work, etc. you should compare treatment-resistant depression to some terminal illness like Alzheimer's.
it's bullshit that people wish and try to force their beliefs and way of living on others. fuck them.
 
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esse_est_percipi

Enlightened
Jul 14, 2020
1,747
Prolifers want to bar the windows instead of put out the fire
Not only that, but if the person in the building had N, SN, a gun and a rope, the pro-lifers would take those away too, and force the poor soul to die a very slow, agonizing death by fire.
 
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BipolarGuy

BipolarGuy

Enlightened
Aug 6, 2020
1,456
I think if you understand depression and the other reasons for why people ctb you would realize that it's not possible to stop people from it by correcting the problems in society. It's very diverse and complicated and different for everyone.

I believe that most people would take what you have said here as being untrue.

Granted, it would take some miracle for society to change and have priorities in order, but in the event that it did I'm sure this would help.
I don't believe it's impossible, I believe that the people in a position to change things simply don't have the will.

I've experienced being severely depressed for no identifiable reason. So I get it.
I've also experienced being depressed due to some very practical real life reasons.
I think if you understand depression and the other reasons for why people ctb you would realize that it's not possible to stop people from it by correcting the problems in society. It's very diverse and complicated and different for everyone. It's best to be realistic and realize this is not going to end. People need to be able to ctb. They want to be able to ctb. They go to any extreme to ctb. It's so horrible what people do and go through to end their lives. It could be so easy and peaceful.

You've changed your post again after I've replied and quoted it.

I believe that people shouldn't have to jump off of buildings to bring suffering to an end.

But as I have said before, I would rather my life turn around and be able to enjoy it rather than bring it to an end.
As I keep saying, the cart is put before the horse on the issue of mental health and suicide prevention - the issues are not dealt with.
Not gonna disagree but it would fix a lot of problems and at the very least prevent a whole lot more from being caused in the beginning. I mean from what I can tell most of us are here because family friends or peers weren't exactly the nicest of people (if I'm going to be nice about it)
Of course this is true :)

If some of the reasons why people feel depressed and try to end their lives were dealt with, then less of it would happen.
 
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Life_is_comedy

Member
Sep 14, 2020
97
Why aren't we required to provide proof of age?
This post glows. Yeah, why would a suicidal person (which carries a stigma with it) wish to be identified and potentially have their information be used against them? Why not hand them your social security number and bank account numbers as well?
 
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bov

bov

Arcanist
Aug 26, 2020
405
Can anyone on this thread recommend sites even remotely similar to this? I'm trying to learn more but all I know of is the Final Exit Network.
 
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lostangel

lostangel

Enlightened
Mar 22, 2019
1,051
It makes me sick any time I realize someone underage has slipped in. It's like buying a drink for a minor who gets into a bar with a fake ID, but so much worse. It makes my soul sick. I know kids are going to try to sneak into adult places, but this is serious shit. The site is already available online for anyone to view, so maybe they feel alone and need to communicate with others, but then it just feels profane to me, to be tricked into providing emotional support for a kid when this is supposed to be an adult space. I can't own their shit and my shit in an adult space. It's already heavy enough.
Hello, could you elaborate on why it's so bad to provide emotional support to a kid? Even if they're anonymous on this site. What would be so different compared to an adult?

Is it more than just ''this is supposed to be an adult space'' or is it just that. Thank you.
 
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Deafsn0w

Deafsn0w

I will buy you a dog if you like my posts
Sep 4, 2018
2,488
because then we'd be putting our actual names on this site. would you want that?
We can black out our names and everything except date of birth and ID photo
 
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inflammed123

Student
Sep 9, 2020
117
Facial
We can black out our names and everything except date of birth and ID photo
Governments wouldn't openly admit to using facial recognition software, but it does exist, and sooner or later they will be using it if they aren't already using it.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
Hello, could you elaborate on why it's so bad to provide emotional support to a kid? Even if they're anonymous on this site. What would be so different compared to an adult?

Is it more than just ''this is supposed to be an adult space'' or is it just that. Thank you.


I used to volunteer with teens. I freaking love them, I respect them, I get their challenges, and I am protective of them, as they are often vulnerable and misunderstood. But it's a different headspace to be in. This is a place for dealing with adults and adult issues, peer to peer, and that's the headspace I want to be in. I have a sense of responsibility when supporting an underage youth, and I don't want that here. If I make a mistake, or if I don't speak gently enough, the impacts are far greater. And it sickens me that I could be providing motivation for a child or teenager under 18 to kill themselves.

I used to hang out at an expat bar in Latin America. The owner would let certain kids, including a teenage girl, come in and hang out. It was a very adult environment, with alcoholics, sometimes drugs, and harsh mannerisms. I used to argue with the owner because of what the kids were exposed to, and if he loved them so much, I thought he either needed to change it to a family environment or not allow minors. Whenever they were there, I was watching out for them, and watching my own behaviors, instead of relaxing and enjoying myself.
 
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grungeCat

grungeCat

Awkward & weird
Jul 5, 2020
1,110
I try to be kind to everybody, but this pro-lifer pushed the limits. He don't understand and he is proud that he doesn't want to understand us. That's disgusting.
 
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Mm80

Mm80

Enlightened
May 15, 2019
1,604
What do you mean by that? I don't understand.
Term of endearment ? Ive seen you get in all kinds of debates, discussions and agreements over the months gpe, ive never seen one of you posts described as glowing though lol
 
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Sinkinshyp

Sinkinshyp

Paragon
Sep 7, 2020
947
Having had to many experiences in my life I have felt probably every emotion there is. I've had periods of being very low - trying to CTB as a teenager, my current state- and being on top of the world- raising my sons. I have been through many struggles. I was a suicidal teenager here I am 30 years later more devastated than I ever imagined possible. I can relate on many levels to many people. Some of the things I thought were horrible in my life ended up teaching me lessons not all bad. It helped me be more compassionate than others who only care about themselves or being happy causing others pain. I hope I can express how I feel in regards to this without sounding pro life or making anyone feel that I dismiss them due to being young. I feel that everyone has a right to choose to stay or go. I also feel that some things can get better. Especially if it's in relation to teenage hormones contributing to a depressed state. I would never want to be a teenager again. Some of my ctb attempts were at that time of the month as a teenager. The hormonal changes caused me to become unstable. I'm sure there are underage people reading. I HOPE they don't CTB and can talk to someone and get help. Things can and do get better. If they are in an abusive home- talk to a teacher to get help to get out of the environment. I would have no issue providing my ID here. This is a safe space from what I see so far. I have read this thread and have been trying to find the right words to contribute.

As for the pro lifers: While this forum does have easily accessible content I see it as more than that. I see so many supporting others- not just about CTB but most importantly being there for them as a friend a person someone who feels the same way. If we tell people our desire they look at us like we have 3 eyes and want to lock us up in a crappy mental hospital. I honestly wish there was a crappy mental hospital I could try to get help. They don't take my insurance so I do not have that option to even try. Most people cannot imagine the struggle to wake up every day and live through such pain. They have never experienced child abuse, bullying, heart break- from relationships and friends family who are unable to comprehend what we are struggling with. Having a place where you can speak honestly and having others who understand is actually so far being helpful- not to ctb but in other ways. I see so many here who are caring individuals even though they feel like they want to CTB. They still have understanding and compassion towards others despite feeling life has nothing further to offer them and they have been pushed to this point by others. Here is a place we fit in where we don't with the rest of the world. There is a recovery section for those who want to recover. So much support there for them.

I'm back to wanting to CTB because my 25 yr old son died in a car accident on his way to work almost 3 yrs ago. That was about the last straw in my miserable existence. I have always had depression and anxiety to some level due to the hell I was born into and being dealt a real shitty deck of cards in my life. As a parent who can no longer tell my son I love you to hear I love you to Ma.. I can relate to parents. If my son chose to take his life and found out how on a forum I honestly don't know how I would react or think. I must be honest in all aspects. I would have to look at how life failed him and why. I would probably put a lot of blame on myself.

Some people who are depressed have a chemical imbalance. That can be treated with meds- might have to go through 20 to find that 1 that helps. Some meds just destroy people further and are more detrimental to them. I was quite medicated as a teenager. One anxiety med in particular back than was a 3 sheet script because it was controlled. It would make you feel like you drank a 12 pack- I liked alcohol and this was a cheap way to get buzzed up. If I took all my meds every day I don't know what I would be like. I'm over medicated now. I do take my duloxetine, xanax and seroquel as prescribed on top of many other meds for my health and pain. The trazadone, rozerem and amitriptyline I take as needed. I'd probably be a zombie if I took it all. They call docs medical practitioner because they are all practicing medicine. Some of those practicing medicine in the mental health field should not be in that field. They are causing more harm than good. I know as a teenager I went through many psychiatrists, counselors and psychotherapists until I found a good one. When you are so depressed you are ready to leave this world it's a chore to just brush your hair let alone seek out a doctor. Than to go through a few docs because you need to find one that you feel comfortable talking to.

Some people have been born into a great life and never had negative experiences. They can't begin to know what it feels like to be so depressed. I told my mother and brother- If I could let you feel my pain for 5 minutes you would understand. You would see how painful waking up is. You would accept my choice to leave all this pain and go to my son. You would know it's selfish to want me to remain in this existence.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,686
Well said @Deafsn0w and I fully agree with you. I believe that the moderators and staff of this platform will do what they can to avoid being shutdown by the government. Also, yes by shutting down certain websites, such as these, they are indeed violating the 1st amendment. I will say that having a method has actually helped me cope a bit better with life, knowing that I can exit on my own terms and at my time of choosing rather than being forced to live a life that is miserable and one that I have no choice to be in. From 2019 to present day, I've been alive mainly due to having a means of (reliable) exit. While this means that I may one day CTB, I am living proof that for some people, having a way out (legitimately) as well as a platform to be honest without fear of judgment, censorship, or intervention has done wonders.
 
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Teal_Blue_Dreams

Teal_Blue_Dreams

Arcanist
Sep 15, 2020
401
Having had to many experiences in my life I have felt probably every emotion there is. I've had periods of being very low - trying to CTB as a teenager, my current state- and being on top of the world- raising my sons. I have been through many struggles. I was a suicidal teenager here I am 30 years later more devastated than I ever imagined possible. I can relate on many levels to many people. Some of the things I thought were horrible in my life ended up teaching me lessons not all bad. It helped me be more compassionate than others who only care about themselves or being happy causing others pain. I hope I can express how I feel in regards to this without sounding pro life or making anyone feel that I dismiss them due to being young. I feel that everyone has a right to choose to stay or go. I also feel that some things can get better. Especially if it's in relation to teenage hormones contributing to a depressed state. I would never want to be a teenager again. Some of my ctb attempts were at that time of the month as a teenager. The hormonal changes caused me to become unstable. I'm sure there are underage people reading. I HOPE they don't CTB and can talk to someone and get help. Things can and do get better. If they are in an abusive home- talk to a teacher to get help to get out of the environment. I would have no issue providing my ID here. This is a safe space from what I see so far. I have read this thread and have been trying to find the right words to contribute.

As for the pro lifers: While this forum does have easily accessible content I see it as more than that. I see so many supporting others- not just about CTB but most importantly being there for them as a friend a person someone who feels the same way. If we tell people our desire they look at us like we have 3 eyes and want to lock us up in a crappy mental hospital. I honestly wish there was a crappy mental hospital I could try to get help. They don't take my insurance so I do not have that option to even try. Most people cannot imagine the struggle to wake up every day and live through such pain. They have never experienced child abuse, bullying, heart break- from relationships and friends family who are unable to comprehend what we are struggling with. Having a place where you can speak honestly and having others who understand is actually so far being helpful- not to ctb but in other ways. I see so many here who are caring individuals even though they feel like they want to CTB. They still have understanding and compassion towards others despite feeling life has nothing further to offer them and they have been pushed to this point by others. Here is a place we fit in where we don't with the rest of the world. There is a recovery section for those who want to recover. So much support there for them.

I'm back to wanting to CTB because my 25 yr old son died in a car accident on his way to work almost 3 yrs ago. That was about the last straw in my miserable existence. I have always had depression and anxiety to some level due to the hell I was born into and being dealt a real shitty deck of cards in my life. As a parent who can no longer tell my son I love you to hear I love you to Ma.. I can relate to parents. If my son chose to take his life and found out how on a forum I honestly don't know how I would react or think. I must be honest in all aspects. I would have to look at how life failed him and why. I would probably put a lot of blame on myself.

Some people who are depressed have a chemical imbalance. That can be treated with meds- might have to go through 20 to find that 1 that helps. Some meds just destroy people further and are more detrimental to them. I was quite medicated as a teenager. One anxiety med in particular back than was a 3 sheet script because it was controlled. It would make you feel like you drank a 12 pack- I liked alcohol and this was a cheap way to get buzzed up. If I took all my meds every day I don't know what I would be like. I'm over medicated now. I do take my duloxetine, xanax and seroquel as prescribed on top of many other meds for my health and pain. The trazadone, rozerem and amitriptyline I take as needed. I'd probably be a zombie if I took it all. They call docs medical practitioner because they are all practicing medicine. Some of those practicing medicine in the mental health field should not be in that field. They are causing more harm than good. I know as a teenager I went through many psychiatrists, counselors and psychotherapists until I found a good one. When you are so depressed you are ready to leave this world it's a chore to just brush your hair let alone seek out a doctor. Than to go through a few docs because you need to find one that you feel comfortable talking to.

Some people have been born into a great life and never had negative experiences. They can't begin to know what it feels like to be so depressed. I told my mother and brother- If I could let you feel my pain for 5 minutes you would understand. You would see how painful waking up is. You would accept my choice to leave all this pain and go to my son. You would know it's selfish to want me to remain in this existence.
This is my first comment as a newbie. I wanted to say that I am so very touched by your thoughtful and thorough post. I am so sorry that you lost your son. "I'm sorry" is such a failure of words when it comes to death. Especially of a child. Especially of anyone so young. Although I cannot relate to that specifically, I can relate to the intense pain, depression, anxiety, all of the doctors, the endless meds (20 to find that 1 that helps) and everything else that you wrote about. The suicidal PMS - yep, I know all about it. I would love to make friends here and have someone to support and to talk to. Want to be friends? (Virtual hug)
 
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Deafsn0w

Deafsn0w

I will buy you a dog if you like my posts
Sep 4, 2018
2,488
you can find more info about fixthe26.
 
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Sinkinshyp

Sinkinshyp

Paragon
Sep 7, 2020
947
This is my first comment as a newbie. I wanted to say that I am so very touched by your thoughtful and thorough post. I am so sorry that you lost your son. "I'm sorry" is such a failure of words when it comes to death. Especially of a child. Especially of anyone so young. Although I cannot relate to that specifically, I can relate to the intense pain, depression, anxiety, all of the doctors, the endless meds (20 to find that 1 that helps) and everything else that you wrote about. The suicidal PMS - yep, I know all about it. I would love to make friends here and have someone to support and to talk to. Want to be friends? (Virtual hug)

thank you and welcome to SS. I hope you find the friendship and support here for whatever decision you decide. Virtual hug back at ya. I am always here for anyone who needs me. I think you have to have more time here or posts, I'm fairly new here myself before I can message you. Once you can im pm whatever it's called feel free to message me.
 
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Teal_Blue_Dreams

Teal_Blue_Dreams

Arcanist
Sep 15, 2020
401
thank you and welcome to SS. I hope you find the friendship and support here for whatever decision you decide. Virtual hug back at ya. I am always here for anyone who needs me. I think you have to have more time here or posts, I'm fairly new here myself before I can message you. Once you can im pm whatever it's called feel free to message me.
Thank you for the warm welcome. How is your night going? (I'm in the US so maybe it's not night time where you are...)
 
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nitroautnz

nitroautnz

Specialist
Sep 11, 2020
361
It's not my case, I feel very bod that when I see what people on this forum go through that I didnt. I have a supportive family and a friend that if I call them will help me right away. Even my ex that broke up with me, would come if I call her.
But it's not what I want, i dont want to live with myself anymore, I'm tired to try to do so because I'm worry about the pain I will cause
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
I watched the video and I've looked at the website.

I'm wondering a couple of things:

1. She said that her son left his laptop open to SS. I'm curious as to why he did that, and which member he was, so I could see for myself what I'm asking here. Could he have done that because it explained his reasons for suicide? Did it show he wasn't alone when he died, and received support and compassion? I doubt his intentions were to say, "Shut down the site," but to try to communicate something to her, to convince her of something.

2. I wonder if she's considered what he would have done if this site didn't exist. He could have only found it if he was trying to find methods for suicide, so there was intent on his part. It's not like the site advertises or goes looking for fishing for unsuspecting members. Had he not found a site that gave him instructions for how to kill himself, what would he have found? When I myself was searching for a reliable, relatively painless method, there wasn't enough information for me to feel confident in an attempt, and I ended up finding this site. So I wonder if she's considered the possbilities of what would have happened had he not found it. For instance, he could have found information about hanging, and ended up not dead, but permanently brain damaged. Would she prefer that he'd attempted and been permanently harmed? Because there clearly was intention to attempt. And if something like that had happened, then who would she go after? Ultimately, the person who sought the information and committed the act is the one responsible. I understand that there are always extreme outlying circumstances, such as situations of coercion like the case mentioned in the OP (which had nothing to do with any website), but at least on the open forum, coercion doesn't happen here, and if it did, it would get nipped in the bud immediately.

I'm pretty sure she'll read this, she seems to keep up with the site, so I want to say, Kelli, I have respect for you. I've suffered losing someone to suicide, and it was not my own child or a family member. But I have compassion for your pain, and I don't at all disrespect you. It took me decades to see other sides of what my high school boyfriend may have been going through, I only saw what I experienced by his sudden loss, and what others experienced. Kelli, your son was an adult. He made a choice. And even if he wasn't an adult, he was still an autonomous human being who you could not control. If he didn't reach out to you for help, I'm so sorry that you've been left feeling impotent and victimized by the loss of your son. Again, it was not in your control. From my heart, I wish you healing, and I wish you the very best.

I hope that on your site you'll be more honest about the things you're linking and let people come to their own conclusions. On the evidence page, you set it up saying that children and people on the autism spectrum are being targeted, and here's the evidence, but the screenshots do not provide evidence of that, so in fact, you are targeting this site, not the site targeting others. You're using persuasive rhetoric, but the evidence doesn't match the claims, so what that says to me is that, while you may convince people who don't have critical thinking skills by handing them torches and pitchforks, you're also revealing a weak position by attempting to falsely manipulate opinons and support. If you want to put yourself out there as coming from a position of moral authority, then you need to act in moral and intellectual integrity. Your actions are your shelter and your refuge; actions of weak integrity create a weak shelter and refuge, especially when the time comes that you will take hits for standing up for what you believe in and choose to pursue.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
I wonder at what point the mods are going to lock this thread, and why. Almost every thread like this that's been started since I've been a member has been locked. I just don't get it.
 
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Captive of Mind

Captive of Mind

Memento mori
Aug 11, 2020
409
Oh yes I agree.
Why should people suffer?

People die of terrible diseases. Why?
An animal wouldn't be allowed to suffer.

In the case of mental health, it is very nuanced.
If I'm honest even I don't know enough about mental health to be able to say if it can be cured or reversed, especially things like psychosis or schizophrenia.

All I can say is that I'd rather be living a good life than feel like I'm being driven to end it.
Then again we could all say that.
Even if the mental health issues could be cured or reversed, does that mean you don't have the right to die? I know there is a possibility that someday I could have more control over my mental illnesses if I put in tons of effort and do everything possible to make it happen. I've already been putting in way more effort than most people do. I still don't see this world as being worth it even if I got my mental health in a better place.
 
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Panna

Panna

Enlightened
Aug 31, 2020
1,006
They just want to feel good whit themselves trying to shut us down and thinking they gods and they have saved lifes when this is the only place i can talk about my feelings and you guys are the only friends if i can say that i have
Exactly, a bunch of fucks who want to censor information in the hopes of forcing others to be just as miserable as they are.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
Even if the mental health issues could be cured or reversed, does that mean you don't have the right to die? I know there is a possibility that someday I could have more control over my mental illnesses if I put in tons of effort and do everything possible to make it happen. I've already been putting in way more effort than most people do. I still don't see this world as being worth it even if I got my mental health in a better place.

Ima bring my rational Stoic buddies into this because they've guided me well in such considerations and I have much respect for their reasoning.

Mental illness isn't the only cause of suicide. That's something I keep seeing with folks opposed to this site, that it's "mentally ill people" advising other "mentally ill people," as if mental illness automatically turns off all rationality and autonomy, and therefore rights. There are rational reasons for suicide as well, such as poverty, homelessness, inability to escape from abuse, tyranny, and war -- and some of those come from my own logic, not just the Stoics. In fact, mental illness or "madness" was considered by the Stoics to be a rational reason for suicide if it caused one to not be able to act on their virtues; I've experienced that.

As Seneca said, the best thing life gave us is that there's only one way in, but many ways out, and as Montaigne said, it would be torture if we didn't have the option to escape life when we choose to. These were some seriously rational people. Stocism was based on rationality, virtue, and responsibilities to one's fellow humans, and Seneca was a statesman and well-known and -respected Stoic philosopher, not some wacked-out proponent of suicide. (Montaigne was a student of Stocisim and other philosophies.) The Stoics didn't take suicide lightly at all; they denounced foolish reasons for suicide, or emotion-based reasons. They weren't handing out suicide kits for joining the Stoic Club, but nor did they cling to emotion-based, non-rational reasons for clinging to life. They didn't romanticize, fetishize, or religiously elevate life as pro-lifers do, and I say this having been pro-life myself for decades, almost militantly so. I was as deaf and reasonless as pro-lifers say we are, which I now recognize in retrospect of my own self is a projection.

The Stoics knew this life is fucking hard, most people don't act on virtue, and really bad shit happens in the world every day. When it gets to be more than one's virtues or philosophy can overcome, there is a way out, and that way out is always there at some point whether one chooses it or not, however it is within one's reason and power to consider it and to pursue it if it is the most sane, rational choice.
 
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Shades of Grey

Shades of Grey

Student
Jun 17, 2020
183
Why aren't we required to provide proof of age?
I suspect that I speak for many of us when I say that I would not be willing to provide any identifying information to join a site like this.

I'm also not sure that requiring proof of age would be a significant deterrent to underage users (who I absolutely agree should not be welcome here). The powers that be have no way of verifying that we are who we say we are. A minor could easily upload a copy of someone else's ID, and they would be none the wiser. I feel like all it would ultimately do is provide a false sense of security, and I'd be very concerned about the potential implications if someone were to get their hands on that information.
 
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Captive of Mind

Captive of Mind

Memento mori
Aug 11, 2020
409
Ima bring my rational Stoic buddies into this because they've guided me well in such considerations and I have much respect for their reasoning.

Mental illness isn't the only cause of suicide. That's something I keep seeing with folks opposed to this site, that it's "mentally ill people" advising other "mentally ill people," as if mental illness automatically turns off all rationality and autonomy, and therefore rights. There are rational reasons for suicide as well, such as poverty, homelessness, inability to escape from abuse, tyranny, and war -- and some of those come from my own logic, not just the Stoics. In fact, mental illness or "madness" was considered by the Stoics to be a rational reason for suicide if it caused one to not be able to act on their virtues; I've experienced that.

As Seneca said, the best thing life gave us is that there's only one way in, but many ways out, and as Montaigne said, it would be torture if we didn't have the option to escape life when we choose to. These were some seriously rational people. Stocism was based on rationality, virtue, and responsibilities to one's fellow humans, and Seneca was a statesman and well-known and -respected Stoic philosopher, not some wacked-out proponent of suicide. (Montaigne was a student of Stocisim and other philosophies.) The Stoics didn't take suicide lightly at all; they denounced foolish reasons for suicide, or emotion-based reasons. They weren't handing out suicide kits for joining the Stoic Club, but nor did they cling to emotion-based, non-rational reasons for clinging to life. They didn't romanticize, fetishize, or religiously elevate life as pro-lifers do, and I say this having been pro-life myself for decades, almost militantly so. I was as deaf and reasonless as pro-lifers say we are, which I now recognize in retrospect of my own self is a projection.

The Stoics knew this life is fucking hard, most people don't act on virtue, and really bad shit happens in the world every day. When it gets to be more than one's virtues or philosophy can overcome, there is a way out, and that way out is always there at some point whether one chooses it or not, however it is within one's reason and power to consider it and to pursue it if it is the most sane, rational choice.
Hey! Thank you for your thoughtful response! You actually gave some valuable information that I enjoyed reading about.

I do recognize that there are rational reasons for suicide other than mental illness, I was posing a question to the person I quoted who was unsure of the some aspects of the role of mental health relating to suicide. They were wondering how it would effect things if mental health could be cured and I was saying that I still would not be interested in living even if I could be treated for the most part.

I especially connected with the part where you said, " In fact, mental illness or "madness" was considered by the Stoics to be a rational reason for suicide if it caused one to not be able to act on their virtues." I have full knowledge of what sort of person I want to be and how to achieve it, and I betray myself at every turn. It is literally killing me..

I've read posts where you talk about traits and examples of manipulative, harmful people and my stomach drops every time. When people write posts talking about people that should be avoided because they do certain things that are considered manipulation, I view myself as a culprit and I don't know if I am or not. I NEVER intentionally do things to manipulate or harm others, but when I look back on ways that I went about things, I realize that everyone in my life must see me as a person who does those things and it crushes me because no one will ever believe that I didn't know. And I don't think they should because regardless of if someone is aware that what they are doing is bad, people should still protect themselves.

No one ever tells me they think this about me and the things that I've seen about myself aren't extreme cases, they are relatively slight. They just feel heavier than they actually are.

I need you to be completely honest with me right now, I've been wanting to ask you this. Have you seen manipulative tendencies from me? I want to know your honest opinion on the way I conduct myself on here. Don't hold back, I've already accepted these things. I just want to hear your opinion in particular.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
I need you to be completely honest with me right now, I've been wanting to ask you this. Have you seen manipulative tendencies from me? I want to know your honest opinion on the way I conduct myself on here. Don't hold back, I've already accepted these things. I just want to hear your opinion in particular.

I'll go through your posts and see if anything stands out, and I'll post on your wall either way. Cool?
 
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