Resource A Bible verse that actually supports non-existence

[TAW122]

I hate religion.
I am 100% atheist.
But there is one quote which I like.
It's from Ecclesiastes 4 :

"And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive.
But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that exists under the sun".

Specifically, it is Ecclesiastes 4: 2-3 (Chapter 4, verses 2-3), but this is a good Bible verse that actually comes in agreeance that life is full of suffering. Sadly, many Christian apologists (not all but most of them) will try to reinterpret it in such a way that detracts from it's actual meaning and/or twist it to support life. Then there are Christians that don't even consider the verse and just dodge it altogether. I know this is coming from a old thread, but it is such a powerful quote, especially when it denotes that death is the end of suffering (first sentence of the quote) and that non-existence is still better than existence (second sentence of the quote) even if it's premise are different.

I am an atheist, but I do find this Bible verse to be accurate in terms of supporting non-existence and that death is preferable to living and suffering.

 

[OneBigBlur]

I like this one, I'm stealing it.

 

[Polka]

I do find this Bible verse to be accurate in terms of supporting non-existence

Hi, I wonder what is the context when you use the word non-existence? The Bible is clear that there is more to reality than 3D space and time. John 17:5.

 

[AlexM]

I'm an atheist and think (but maybe I am wrong) that judgment of ancient Semitic shepherds hardly help us to understand how the world works.

 

[Polka]

Yes I understand that you are an atheist. It's good to read that you are open to the possibility that you are wrong. Me too.

 

[charlottewilts]

oh, how i love Ecclesiastes. the OG nihilist. much how people say the Bible gave them hope to live, Ecclesiastes gave me hope to die without remorse. like you said, whether one is religious or not, it is a good read.

1 The words of the Teacher,[a] son of David, king in Jerusalem:

2 "Meaningless! Meaningless!"
says the Teacher.
"Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless."
3 What do people gain from all their labors
at which they toil under the sun?
4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.
5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.
6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.
7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.
8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.
9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which one can say,
"Look! This is something new"?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.
11 No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them.

 

[TAW122]

@OneBigBlur Go for it, I don't mind as it's basically free for all when it comes to the Bible. Personally, I think and believe that it was humans throughout history, civilizations, and society that evolved over time and take whatever they deem relevant and apply it to whatever culture they are in. As we are in a time and place of capitalism, inequalities, and whatever ills in society is, in the US, even though they are overwhelming religious (especially in the Bible belt), I feel that people take what is in the Bible to justify their viewpoint or beliefs rather than the other way around.

@Polka In terms of non-existence I would say I am referring to never being born, so in that sense, it would be logical to imply that even the Bible was somewhat anti-natalist, meaning against bringing in new life into this world.

@charlottewilts Yes, that is a good passage regarding the meaninglessness of existence. The sad part is that apologists and theists (not all, but a good amount of them) would reinterpret it in such a way (along with harrowing mental gymnastics) to show that the Bible is "pro-life".

 

[Sensei]

I'm not a believer, but I think the Bible is very misunderstood when it comes to death. What we believe the Bible has to say about death is really medieval fantasies, especially when it comes to depictions of hell.

 

[TAW122]

@Sensei I blame partly the Roman Catholic Church back in the days, when they misinterpreted 'death' in the Bible and decreed that 'suicide' is a sin. At best, it's not even a 'sin' (afaik, Bible scholars and people who know the Bible more than me, correct me if I'm wrong) and at worst, even if it is, you don't just go to Hell for suicide. I believe that the "you go to Hell if you CTB" concept was something that people in high positions of power and with vast influence indoctrinated into the masses to keep the masses enslaved and to be productive. The people in power (at the time, and even in present day) could not afford to have many peasants (back then, in the day) or wageslaves (in modern day) CTB, otherwise society would collapse.

 

[Sensei]

@Sensei I blame partly the Roman Catholic Church back in the days, when they misinterpreted 'death' in the Bible and decreed that 'suicide' is a sin. At best, it's not even a 'sin' (afaik, Bible scholars and people who know the Bible more than me, correct me if I'm wrong) and at worst, even if it is, you don't just go to Hell for suicide. I believe that the "you go to Hell if you CTB" concept was something that people in high positions of power and with vast influence indoctrinated into the masses to keep the masses enslaved and to be productive. The people in power (at the time, and even in present day) could not afford to have many peasants (back then, in the day) or wageslaves (in modern day) CTB, otherwise society would collapse.

Indeed, we take many things for granted. For instance, "you shall not kill" is perhaps better translated as "you shall not murder". Nowhere in the Bible does it say that polygamy is forbidden; that's based on Roman law. The list goes on.

 

[WhyIsLife56]

You should check out the whole book of Ecclesiastes. It was written when King Solomon was depressed.

 

[AlexM]

@Sensei I blame partly the Roman Catholic Church back in the days, when they misinterpreted 'death' in the Bible and decreed that 'suicide' is a sin. At best, it's not even a 'sin' (afaik, Bible scholars and people who know the Bible more than me, correct me if I'm wrong) and at worst, even if it is, you don't just go to Hell for suicide. I believe that the "you go to Hell if you CTB" concept was something that people in high positions of power and with vast influence indoctrinated into the masses to keep the masses enslaved and to be productive. The people in power (at the time, and even in present day) could not afford to have many peasants (back then, in the day) or wageslaves (in modern day) CTB, otherwise society would collapse.

Bible (Old and New) comprises no condemnation ctb, only Qur'an (if you need I can to write quote). Myth about condemnation was made by Church when the human was a resource of kings and Church. Nobody can't quote from Bible with condemnation ctb.

UPD Qur'an contains a condemnation only, Hell doesn´t follow that.

You should check out the whole book of Ecclesiastes. It was written when King Solomon was depressed.

Sometimes I think God was depressed when created this world :)

 

[a.h]

Hi, I wonder what is the context when you use the word non-existence? The Bible is clear that there is more to reality than 3D space and time. John 17:5.

Bible was made of separate papyrus scrolls written by different people and made into a book (book is in Latin bible). Also some countries and churches has different texts in their Bible. Bible in USA for example has twice more texts than the one sold where I live.

 

[Epsilon0]

People have been squabbling over the meaning of this and that verse for almost two centuries.

Oh, how I love postmodernist hermeneutics that put an end to the nonsense.

Finally, we can say there is no one objective interpretation, without risking being burned at the stake. There are literally millions of truthful interpretations, as you, me and every other reader can bring their own viewpoint when reading the Bible. And the beauty of it all is that each viewpoint is equally valid.

 

[Nemeshisu]

Bible was made of separate papyrus scrolls written by different people and made into a book (book is in Latin bible). Also some countries and churches has different texts in their Bible. Bible in USA for example has twice more texts than the one sold where I live.

Yeah, most of the books of the Bible just contradict eachother as every person who wrote them had slighty different views even though they tried to describe the same ,,God". And church claims that they have been writing it under influence of ,,God"! Most of Bible had been also censored, first by the Roman Empire who labeled everything that they didn't like as ,,gnostic texts" and then by Pope who continued tradition of the same old Roman Bible and didn't allow to question any part of it and allow any changes. Modern Church has almost nothing to do with orginal teachings of Jesus.

People have been squabbling over the meaning of this and that verse for almost two centuries.

Oh, how I love postmodernist hermeneutics that put an end to the nonsense.

Finally, we can say there is no one objective interpretation, without risking being burned at the stake. There are literally millions of truthful interpretations, as you, me and every other reader can bring their own viewpoint when reading the Bible. And the beauty of it all is that each viewpoint is equally valid.

Honestly, I agree with this. It's just depressing that in past we even had wars where thousands if not millions died, just because some group didn't tolerate other group interpretation of Bible.

 

[Kuolema]

The Bible lol. Only good thing the bible is useful for is keeping the masses content with their boring meaningless lives.

 

[passenger27]

Picking meaningful passages out of the Bible is like picking corn out of crap.

 

[a.h]

I think it's absurd how group of people write book in different countries and then gather masses to torture and kill each others fighting whose book is right.

Everyone knows that if people would stop hating and loved each others then the world would be a better place. All religions claim that is what God wants too so why they don't just do that and follow their own religion.

 

[TAW122]

I think it's absurd how group of people write book in different countries and then gather masses to torture and kill each others fighting whose book is right.

Everyone knows that if people would stop hating and loved each others then the world would be a better place. All religions claim that is what God wants too so why they don't just do that and follow their own religion.

I suppose that most world religions while they do all point to God in some way (in their own society's interpretation), they all have subtle differences. It is also a part of human nature to fight against each other even over petty things. I don't believe in God so I don't have that quandary to worry with, but I do know a lot about religion (especially Christian religion) as I've studied it in the past and attended church.