Discussion 90% of People who survive a Suicide Attempt don't end up committing suicide.

[FTL.Wanderer]

Any idea how to deal with survival instinct?

That's the billion-dollar question. Not surprisingly, I can't find any (reliable) published literature on this. Maybe a hint is that so many who try suicide use alcohol and other drugs before their chosen method. Professionals seem to agree that inhibition suppression (either being that kind of person naturally or from drugs) is a key to successful suicide (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (2010). Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance—United States, 2009. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 59 (SS-5)). Or that emotional suppression is an important part of being able to commit suicide (Kaplow, J.B., Gipson, P.Y., Horwitz, A.G. et al. Prev Sci (2014) 15: 177).

I think people like us (?) will need help from chemicals to depress our anxiety so much that our rational minds can carry out the plan we make--likely days, not just an hour or two, in advance of the big leap. What do you think?

 

[efffervescence]

"Suicide attempt" is used too loosely when it comes to these things. Actual suicide attempts will end in death more often than people that cut their wrists or take a few more painkillers than recommended. If someone genuinely wants to die, they will, a failed suicide attempt wont change that. When I woke up from a coma 2 days after I attempted the first thing I thought about was how disappointed I was that I hadn't died and I still wish I had. A problem that serious suicide attempts face afterwards is that they have to wait for another window to open now that everyone in the world is aware of their intent, or this is my reason for still being here at least.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Please don't take offense, but I wish messages like this would help. Unfortunately it just makes me miss the relationships I used to have even more. I don't really know why I joined, it would seem everyone here is really nice and supportive and I cant even accept kind words from a stranger.

I send those kinds of messages so am guilty of just what you said. And I agree with you--reading the words I'm loved... makes me feel lonelier b/c I know that there's no one there to actually speak with once I walk away from the computer screen. I think your feelings are understandable. I hope you'll stick around here.

 

[Pulpit2018]

When I woke up from a coma 2 days after I attempted the first thing I thought about was how disappointed I was that I hadn't died.

Did you OD?

 

[efffervescence]

Did you OD?

Yeah propranolol

 

[Thin Chew]

That's the billion-dollar question. Not surprisingly, I can't find any (reliable) published literature on this. Maybe a hint is that so many who try suicide use alcohol and other drugs before their chosen method. Professionals seem to agree that inhibition suppression (either being that kind of person naturally or from drugs) is a key to successful suicide (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (2010). Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance—United States, 2009. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, 59 (SS-5)). Or that emotional suppression is an important part of being able to commit suicide (Kaplow, J.B., Gipson, P.Y., Horwitz, A.G. et al. Prev Sci (2014) 15: 177).

I think people like us (?) will need help from chemicals to depress our anxiety so much that our rational minds can carry out the plan we make--likely days, not just an hour or two, in advance of the big leap. What do you think?

I think drunk isnt a bad idea. Since we won't recall much thing when we are drunk. It should do the trick

I send those kind of message so am guilty of just what you said. And I agree with you--reading the words I'm loved... makes me feel lonelier b/c I know that there's no one there to actually speak with once I walk away from the computer screen. I think your feelings are understandable. I hope you'll stick around here.

Oh wait, how should those people who don't drink alcohol overcome survival instinct tho.

 

[nopoint]

Because the majority of suicide attempts are just people wanting attention that is the same people who call suicide hotlines, if you seriously wanna die you won´t call a stranger to tell you not to do it.

I agree. My therapist prepped a safety form or something for me during our session today. The entire time I was like this is a waste of time. My biggest fear is I would be found before I'm actually dead.

 

[MistakesHappen]

Oh wait, how should those people who don't drink alcohol overcome survival instinct tho.

From experience is a mixture of desperation and peace, at least for me.
Also doing it without thinking it through was really helpful


Thanks for all the answers guys, I knew I could count on the SS-squad

 

[Jean Améry]

The problem is that we always think of ourselves as Special and part of the 10%.
"I have all the reasons, I am right about this, I am The exception"
There's nothing wrong about continuing to live, but what i'm trying to understand is if the 90% is continuing living because of fear or because of a new found hope.
We are not talking about people who called the Hotline or admitted themself to the hospital, they survived a deadly jump.
I honestly don't have problems with death, i'm only questioning if all of my reasoning is just a crisis and "delusional".

I hate the "wait till it gets better" argument, but i can't seem to be able to argue against it, that's why i asked the SS-squad

If you think you might just be in a crisis and 'delusional' the logical thing to do would be to wait, think things over and explore other options. I do think merely waiting will probably not accomplish much: in life one needs to act in order to effect changes or they probably won't happen.

 

[Thin Chew]

Why bother to live when the world is cruel unfair? Yes, people said that there will be light at the end. For me, that 'light' won't last long.

 

[RememberWhatUCameFor]

Because the majority of suicide attempts are just people wanting attention that is the same people who call suicide hotlines, if you seriously wanna die you won´t call a stranger to tell you not to do it.

if you seriously wanna die pick a method that will most likely work, like shotgun, nembutal, jumping, train, decaptation, exitbag and not methods like cutting etc

 

[Thin Chew]

if you seriously wanna die pick a method that will most likely work, like shotgun, nembutal, jumping, train, decaptation, exitbag and not methods like cutting etc

How about partial hanging

 

[RememberWhatUCameFor]

How about partial hanging

its surely not ideal bc you can always back down (which is one reason why its so appealing probably...you need less willpower in comparison to other methods, eg if you jump down a 120m high bridge there is no going back. its a final decision. whereas by partial hanging you can "practise" as much as you want giving yourself the comfy illusion to easily ctb any time you want)

but i dont think its super bad either. i mean its easy, you can do it everywhere. and isnt it the most popular suicide method?

 

[neveranyhope]

It's hard for me to understand those that have love and support but still want to ctb.

I completely understand this. More than anything. I can be a total asshole about it but I do not get people who have loving supportive families still wanting to. That's where I'm an asshole I guess.

I'm so sorry you're in this pain, I know exactly how you feel. Hope you're doing okay. Message me any time.

 

[Thin Chew]

I completely understand this. More than anything. I can be a total asshole about it but I do not get people who have loving supportive families still wanting to. That's where I'm an asshole I guess.

I'm so sorry you're in this pain, I know exactly how you feel. Hope you're doing okay. Message me any time.

Leaving my family behind is the best way I wanna do. One of The reason I wanna suicide is because of my family. And yes, everyone of them is a assh.le. Ya, i might sound disrespectful because they are the one who give birth to me. I don't appreciate it because I have a broken family.

Family problem is just one of the reason I wanna suicide. There's still alot. Pressure etc

 

[reginafilangie]

I completely understand this. More than anything. I can be a total asshole about it but I do not get people who have loving supportive families still wanting to. That's where I'm an asshole I guess.

I'm so sorry you're in this pain, I know exactly how you feel. Hope you're doing okay. Message me any time.

i don't think it's being an asshole, i think mental health is a tricky thing and isn't one size fits all. My mental health was relatively intact until very recently and only now do I understand the feels of depression or "being alone in a room full of people." Loving supportive families is something that we may be missing, if we had that, it would likely significantly change our feelings, or perspective; for others it's something else.

 

[Jean Améry]

1. obviously people who died by suicide can't be questioned. They probably used high percentage methods.It's likely the number of actual suicides is much higher than the official number.
2. most people who attempt do it in a fit of despair and haven't thought it through. The mental health system is woefully inadequate to deal with emotional pain as is society at large so they basically drive people to despair and suicide attempts
3. the psychiatric system rewards fake/pseudo suicide attempts with lavishing attention, as do family, friends etcetera
4. those who survived were probably scared shitless and hence decided not to try it again. Suicide is serious business with potentially dreadful consequences: if you failed the first time around there's a good chance you will again.

I'm actually with the pro life/anti suicide squad on this one: most people who attempt suicide don't think clearly and fail to realize there were other options. Rational suicide is pretty rare.

The solution would be to make rational suicide lawful: mandatory talks with certain professionals, being offered multiple solutions, a waiting period... This would weed out the emotionally unstable, fakers and attention seekers and grant those with an earnest death wish their peace and self-determination.

I saw a documentary about a Belgian girl aged 24 who requested euthanasia for unbearable mental suffering: she got her wish but chickened out at the last moment (). She was presented a clean, painless, doctor-assisted death on a silver platter and she did not take it... When the prospect of death became real she could not take it. I believe this is why most attempts are half-hearted and hence fail. That and the lack of proper preparation.

Of course to be sure one should examine those studies in depth.

 

[Iman]

@Jean Améry
Didn't it say in the end of the video that she died 2 years later or is that incorrect information?

At first I wanted to argue, that just because she didn't went through with it at that moment, it doesn't mean that she ultimately wants to live after all.
It's just a matter of time until you fall back into the mind set or situation that lead to the decision of wanting to ctb, in the first place.
Especially if you don't get "sufficient help". I'm not sure what kind of help would be best and apparently neither did the people around her.
Obviously depends on the actual situation, but I think it's difficult, if not impossible, to find a sustainable solution.
The response of @FTL.Wanderers captures pretty well, what I am trying to say.

It's also a well-known problem with suicide research, though it's not often discussed, that researchers do not follow patients long enough to draw valid conclusions about what happens to them in the future. And as more and more of us here on SS have been writing in just the past few weeks, it's extremely hard to overcome the survival instinct for many of us. But many who've been suicidal for decades talk about how abysmal their lives have been.

 

[Jean Améry]

@Jean Améry
Didn't it say in the end of the video that she died 2 years later or is that incorrect information?

At first I wanted to argue, that just because she didn't went through with it at that moment, it doesn't mean that she ultimately wants to live after all.
It's just a matter of time until you fall back into the mind set or situation that lead to the decision of wanting to ctb, in the first place.
Especially if you don't get "sufficient help". I'm not sure what kind of help would be best and apparently neither did the people around her.
Obviously depends on the actual situation, but I think it's difficult, if not impossible, to find a sustainable solution.
The response of @FTL.Wanderers captures pretty well, what I am trying to say.

You're right: it seems she did die by euthanasia in 2018. It's been a while since I saw that documentary, obviously I didn't re-watch it. Still the point remains that she was offered a good death and did not take it even though her suffering must have been great so her survival instinct at that time was obviously greater than her death wish.

Of course there are many cases like hers in which humane suicide or euthanasia would be the ideal solution. Still there are many more who attempt out of sheer desperation and whose mind was clouded at the time.

I believe suicide should be legal and humane means (with or without assistence) should be provided with the caveat that care should be taken to ensure the death wish isn't a spur of the moment thing or something that hasn't been properly considered.

 

[Iman]

You're right: it seems she did die by euthanasia in 2018. It's been a while since I saw that documentary, obviously I didn't re-watch it. Still the point remains that she was offered a good death and did not take it even though her suffering must have been great so her survival instinct at that time was obviously greater than her death wish.

Of course there are many cases like hers in which humane suicide or euthanasia would be the ideal solution. Still there are many more who attempt out of sheer desperation and whose mind was clouded at the time.

I believe suicide should be legal and humane means (with or without assistence) should be provided with the caveat that care should be taken to ensure the death wish isn't a spur of the moment thing or something that hasn't been properly considered.

Yeah, I think having a fixed date can lead to a lot of emotional turmoil. So instead of choosing a date and having to kill yourself at a fixed time, I think it would be good to have more of a waiting period and afterwards still have an option to do it at a later time.
Just like how she still got the chance even 2 years later, which actually suprised me.

It's difficult to find a good solution, of figuring out who truly wants to die. I mean it's not so much that anyone wants to experience the process of dying. But they are in a situation, where non existence (not living instead of living), appears to be the better alternative.

 

[Umbra]

Even if we assume this statistic is 100% true it's not very important for any purpose.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

just because she didn't went through with it at that moment, it doesn't mean that she ultimately wants to live after all.
It's just a matter of time until you fall back into the mind set or situation that lead to the decision of wanting to ctb, in the first place.
Especially if you don't get "sufficient help".

This.

 

[whatever1111]

I think everyone, and I do mean everyone should have the right to do it, but I would probably make the waiting period the crucial criteria - you wanna die, although you're physically healthy? fine, wait 2/3/5 years and prove it. going into psychological detail about who really deserves to die seems to lead to some moralistic, dubious or unfair treatment. of course, this is probably utopia, I dont know how much this would endanger the interests of the state, how expensive would it be, how many people would apply, etc.

 

[bhav]

I'm not sure how true it is, but you hear a lot of anecdotal evidence of people who survive bridge jumps realising how futile their reasons for jumping are in the fall.

 

[Jean Améry]

I think everyone, and I do mean everyone should have the right to do it, but I would probably make the waiting period the crucial criteria - you wanna die, although you're physically healthy? fine, wait 2/3/5 years and prove it. going into psychological detail about who really deserves to die seems to lead to some moralistic, dubious or unfair treatment. of course, this is probably utopia, I dont know how much this would endanger the interests of the state, how expensive would it be, how many people would apply, etc.

I'm not sure about having to wait for years on end but I do agree on the principle of personal autonomy: if the person really wants to do it, isn't coerced, under the influence of anything or highly stressed/emotional no-one can and should make the value-judgement about that person's quality of life and their desire to die but the individual herself. That's what freedom means: being able to do whatever you want aslong as you don't endanger or encroach upon the rights of others.

 

[whatever1111]

I'm not sure about having to wait for years on end but I do agree on the principle of personal autonomy: if the person really wants to do it, isn't coerced, under the influence of anything or highly stressed/emotional no-one can and should make the value-judgement about that person's quality of life and their desire to die but the individual herself. That's what freedom means: being able to do whatever you want aslong as you don't endanger or encroach upon the rights of others.

I agree, although I dont know why would stress exclude the person from his right.
also, someone could argue that he should possess this freedom, but why would the state provide the means. I wonder what would the political slogan be - universal death care is a right! lol

 

[Jean Améry]

I agree, although I dont know why would stress exclude the person from his right.
also, someone could argue that he should possess this freedom, but why would the state provide the means. I wonder what would the political slogan be - universal death care is a right! lol

Because great and accute stress/fear/emotion usually skews one's rationality and thus sound decision-making.

To me it doesn't matter fundamentally whether the state provides the means or makes it legal to obtain humane means. I'm not an expert in political propaganda and thus how to sell it but the basis for this is respect for human dignity and the rights and freedom of the individual. In short personal autonomy/liberty.

 

[CornerE]

I don't believe that .
I think it's prolifer's bluffing to win an argument and justify their freaky control over others' own decisions .

Plus , all of us in the forum today didn't end our own lives " yet " .
Does that mean that we gave up the idea or love life all the sudden ??

Any real study has to
a. include only dead subjects who had previous attempts .
Filter out natural deaths off suicidal ones .
You can't include living ones , they won't tell you their real intentions and risk a ward forced admittance .

b. you have to know how many of those who ended up with natural death really abandoned suicide thought and lived willingly .
You'll find many of them died naturally but after a long suffer in pain because they couldn't do it , maybe tried and failed in secret many times over the years .

 

[Deleted User#81194]

I don't believe that .
I think it's prolifer's bluffing to win an argument and justify their freaky control over others' own decisions .

Plus , all of us in the forum today didn't end our own lives " yet " .
Does that mean that we gave up the idea or love life all the sudden ??

Any real study has to
a. include only dead subjects who had previous attempts .
Filter out natural deaths off suicidal ones .
You can't include living ones , they won't tell you their real intentions and risk a ward forced admittance .

b. you have to know how many of those who ended up with natural death really abandoned suicide thought and lived willingly .
You'll find many of them died naturally but after a long suffer in pain because they couldn't do it , maybe tried and failed in secret many times over the years .

100%

 

[ARW3N]

I think the study is confusing parasuicide (apparent attempted suicide without the actual intention of killing oneself) with suicide. Suicide does take much more courage than one thinks as anyone who is a regular of SS knows. We wouldn't be endlessly debating suicide here if it was that easy.