800k divided by 8 billion is .0001. Why is the suicide rate so low?

[Ambivalent1]

Statistics say 800k kill themselves every year. How is it not at least 50 percent given how much the news talks about it?

 

[unplug]

I suppose it's the same reason why this forum is so populated. Most of us can't seem to get past that point where we actually do it, and succeed.

 

[Ambivalent1]

I suppose it's the same reason why this forum is so populated. Most of us can't seem to get past that point where we actually do it, and succeed.

Maybe suicide is a test. The overseer turns the heat up and sees who is brave enough to leave the boiling pot to a world unknown.

I hope if I ever do it that I get that climactic experience from The Fountain where Hugh Jackman's character is pulled into space with the music going all out.

 

[unplug]

Maybe suicide is a test. The overseer turns the heat up and sees who is brave enough to leave the boiling pot to a world unknown.

That's an interesting take. Do you believe in a higher power?

 

[Ambivalent1]

That's an interesting take. Do you believe in a higher power?

Idk

 

[Mortalist]

Math says the suicide rate is low. But 800K is still one hell of a number. It is daunting that this is even possilbe.
If there is an afterlife of any sort, one can only hope it is a better place then earth is currently.

 

[BlackWednesday]

For various reasons, suicide rate is proabably much higher than is reported

 

[Ambivalent1]

For various reasons, suicide rate is proabably much higher than is reported

Just like the people who are Dying Suddenly in all the news reports lately

 

[timetodie24]

A lot of suicides may not be recorded as such on coroner reports. For example, if intent was unclear (e.g self injury without intent to ctb can't be ruled out) may be reported as 'death by misadventure'

 

[chocolatebar]

As much as suicides are under reported, it's not enough to make it a significantly greater number in comparison to the entire population. The truth is that most people simply aren't suicidal.

It can be hard for us, who perceive the world in such a way, to understand how people can live for so many years and just want to live more and more, but it actually happens for most ones out there.

Why are we like that, or why are they not like us? That's a good question without a single answer. I believe it involves different worldviews, a natural form of denial of reality most people have, different living conditions, and other factors.

 

[FuneralCry]

I think it's because we exist in this anti suicide society where people so cruelly restrict reliable and peaceful method options from people, I think that most people would ctb if one could buy Nembutal at a pharmacy but sadly that's not the reality. And there is also the fact that people can end up being punished if they fail a suicide attempt like being locked inside a psych ward and suffering even more there. Suicide really is so unnecessarily difficult in this world which is why I really envy those who have managed to succeed especially with methods like hanging. Those who manage to ctb with a non peaceful method that is potentially risky are so brave.

 

[Dead Ghost]

It's clear that most people don't want to commit suicide, if it were the other way around we wouldn't have internet, electricity, or water supply... we wouldn't even have peaceful means to do the CTB... we wouldn't have passed of prehistory

Don't you think you're past that 50% suicide thing? you wouldn't even need to turn on the news to find out that half the world's population has died.

//

Es evident que la majoría de la gent no es vol suïcidar, si fos el contrari no disposariem ni d'Internet, ni electricitat, ni abastiment d'aigua... ni tan sols tindriem pas mitjans pacífics per fer el CTB.. no haguéssim passat de la prehistòria.

No creus que t'has passat amb això de 50% de suïcidis? no caldría ni posar les notícies per assebentar-te que s'ha mort la meitat de la població mundial.

 

[unnormal9]

I cannot fathom statistics, I can only continue to end my pain.

 

[Ambivalent1]

It's clear that most people don't want to commit suicide, if it were the other way around we wouldn't have internet, electricity, or water supply... we wouldn't even have peaceful means to do the CTB... we wouldn't have passed of prehistory

Don't you think you're past that 50% suicide thing? you wouldn't even need to turn on the news to find out that half the world's population has died.

//

Es evident que la majoría de la gent no es vol suïcidar, si fos el contrari no disposariem ni d'Internet, ni electricitat, ni abastiment d'aigua... ni tan sols tindriem pas mitjans pacífics per fer el CTB.. no haguéssim passat de la prehistòria.

No creus que t'has passat amb això de 50% de suïcidis? no caldría ni posar les notícies per assebentar-te que s'ha mort la meitat de la població mundial.

Covid shots are suicide. A large percentage got them even though they knew a rushed vaccine manufactured by corporations free from liability was suspicious.

 

[Dead Ghost]

Covid shots are suicide. A large percentage got them even though they knew a rushed vaccine manufactured by corporations free from liability was suspicious.

I do not get what you want to say. I have not been vaccinated, but I can assure you that in my home or my family environment people were vaccinated to be able to lead their lives normally again, not with the intention of committing suicide.

//

No entenc que vols dir. Jo no m'he vacunat pas, però t'asseguro que a casa meva o el meu entorn familiar la gent es va vacunar per poder tornar a fer les seves vides amb normalitat, no pas amb la intenció de suïcidar-se.

 

[Ambivalent1]

I do not get what you want to say. I have not been vaccinated, but I can assure you that in my home or my family environment people were vaccinated to be able to lead their lives normally again, not with the intention of committing suicide.

//

No entenc que vols dir. Jo no m'he vacunat pas, però t'asseguro que a casa meva o el meu entorn familiar la gent es va vacunar per poder tornar a fer les seves vides amb normalitat, no pas amb la intenció de suïcidar-se.

I know. I didn't have a followup so I wrote something random to keep the conversation going.

 

[autistocracy]

It's probably underreporting. I think it would be a lot higher if statisticians considered all "deaths of despair" to be included in the suicide rate. Like, if someone unintentionally drinks themselves to death (either through acute alcohol poisoning or long-term liver damage) because the world shit, is that not similar to someone wanting to die immediately? I guess you'd call it "passive" suicide.

 

[Dead Ghost]

I know. I didn't have a followup so I wrote something random to keep the conversation going.

OK.
//
D'acord.

 

[Ambivalent1]

It's probably underreporting. I think it would be a lot higher if statisticians considered all "deaths of despair" to be included in the suicide rate. Like, if someone unintentionally drinks themselves to death (either through acute alcohol poisoning or long-term liver damage) because the world shit, is that not similar to someone wanting to die immediately? I guess you'd call it "passive" suicide.

Include smoker deaths too?

 

[autistocracy]

Include smoker deaths too?

I'd say no because I don't think most smokers use it as a 'maladaptive' coping mechanism like alcoholism/disordered eating but idk

 

[SilentSadness]

People are gaslighted and brainwashed since birth to do what they're told. As most people don't think anything through, they assume life is to be preserved without any consideration for the alternative. For those who decide to die, methods are nearly impossible without subjecting oneself to the worst brutality imaginable. It's surprising that the numbers are so high, it just shows that life is so unspeakably horrific that that so many people are willing to brutalise themselves to escape. It's certainly not the "gift" that the pro-lifers claim it is.

 

[thatlatealready]

To me, there are a few reasons that stand out:

1. Suicide is still highly taboo. There's probably many, many more deaths by suicide than are reported. There's at least one in my family that was put down as something else, when in reality it was likely suicide. This misreporting is especially prevalent in third world countries; amongst the elderly and terminally ill; and in highly religious places with strong anti-suicide beliefs.

Tagging on to that, some people probably do sort of commit suicide, but it isn't legally considered such. If you are an alcoholic who drinks yourself to death because you have given up on life, it isn't considered suicide. If an addict overdoses on heroin because he doesn't care if he lives or dies anymore, it's not ruled a suicide. If an elderly woman "forgets" her heart medication, it won't be seen as a suicide. I reckon a significant portion of the population does things to speed up the end of their life out of, at least in part, what could be considered passive suicidal feelings. However, this isn't considered suicide.

2. Most people are not actively suicidal, and even amongst those who are suicidal, most will never make a serious attempt. Humans are kind of hard-wired to not want to die and to try their best to stay alive. Anything else is fairly out of the norm. I reckon this in part explains the excessive need to tell suicidal people that we don't really want death, it's that we're calling for help, or deeply unwell, or want a way out, or we can't cope anymore. By our very nature, death shouldn't really be desirable.

On top of that, active suicidal ideation rarely ever lasts a long time. This is why the mental health system works the way it does in terms of hospitalisation: for a significant portion of the population, if you keep them alive long enough they stop trying to kill themselves. Suicide is, in general, an acute crisis. It's also a big part of why people are so against sites like this one; simply having access to the resources and knowledge greatly increases the chance of impulsive suicide. The majority of people recover, so keeping them alive is obviously a bonus in the eyes of the world. Multi-suicide attempt survivors are fairly rare - a lot of people try once, fail, and never try again. It's why the pro-life people are so big on the "it gets better" message and the "call this number and talk to this person" thing. Even delaying someone by a few hours can stop them from dying.

(This is not the case for everyone. As I'm sure most of the people on this site appreciate, some of us are long time suicidal and have spent years caught in the safety web of the system. Also, in my experience as someone who's spent the better part of his life wanting to die, my risk of actually doing so tends to come in waves. I have a crisis, am forced to get through said crisis with or without attempting, get a bit "better" for a while, then repeat cycle.)

3. Killing yourself is hard. Unless you're unusual and have access to an easy means (firearm, place to hang yourself from, specific drugs, tall building), it's bloody difficult to kill yourself successfully.

Surviving an attempt has negative consequences too. Not only can you seriously harm yourself, but the social consequences are terrible. Your family and friends will never look at you the same way. You'll have to carry the shame of being a suicide attempt survivor for the rest of your life. In some places, you could be forced into hospital, or even prison. To many, the risk associated with not dying is simply too high to chance it.

Even if you did have a way to take your life that guaranteed success, overriding the survival instinct is close to impossible. If you try to drown, you'll find yourself fighting to swim. If you try to suffocate, you'll find yourself fighting to breath. If you try to jump, you'll find every muscle in your body screaming to run away from the ledge. There's a huge shot of automatic fight-and-flight type response in life and death situations, suicide attempts included. The primal urge to not die is extraordinarily powerful. It's so strong that you can actually look on in horror as you save yourself against your wishes. You can heart-and-soul want to die, and still be powerless to stop yourself from surviving.

(I have a suspicion this is why many folks don't attempt suicide twice: they face the survival instinct and see it as proof they really wanted to live all along. I guess whatever makes them happy.)

 

[SpiderLink]

Statistics say 800k kill themselves every year. How is it not at least 50 percent given how much the news talks about it?

It could honestly be higher, but not everyone that's suicidal will go through it, for different reasons and either way is valid

 

[MildlyBetter]

Most likely a mix of most suicides just not being reported + it being difficult to ctb in the western world without more physical methods, which most people are scared of (can't blame them, I am too lol) Also one thing to remember, most people do not actually want to kill themselves, the feelings we have are abnormal and its common to project these feelings onto others.

 

[Ambivalent1]

To me, there are a few reasons that stand out:

1. Suicide is still highly taboo. There's probably many, many more deaths by suicide than are reported. There's at least one in my family that was put down as something else, when in reality it was likely suicide. This misreporting is especially prevalent in third world countries; amongst the elderly and terminally ill; and in highly religious places with strong anti-suicide beliefs.

Tagging on to that, some people probably do sort of commit suicide, but it isn't legally considered such. If you are an alcoholic who drinks yourself to death because you have given up on life, it isn't considered suicide. If an addict overdoses on heroin because he doesn't care if he lives or dies anymore, it's not ruled a suicide. If an elderly woman "forgets" her heart medication, it won't be seen as a suicide. I reckon a significant portion of the population does things to speed up the end of their life out of, at least in part, what could be considered passive suicidal feelings. However, this isn't considered suicide.

2. Most people are not actively suicidal, and even amongst those who are suicidal, most will never make a serious attempt. Humans are kind of hard-wired to not want to die and to try their best to stay alive. Anything else is fairly out of the norm. I reckon this in part explains the excessive need to tell suicidal people that we don't really want death, it's that we're calling for help, or deeply unwell, or want a way out, or we can't cope anymore. By our very nature, death shouldn't really be desirable.

On top of that, active suicidal ideation rarely ever lasts a long time. This is why the mental health system works the way it does in terms of hospitalisation: for a significant portion of the population, if you keep them alive long enough they stop trying to kill themselves. Suicide is, in general, an acute crisis. It's also a big part of why people are so against sites like this one; simply having access to the resources and knowledge greatly increases the chance of impulsive suicide. The majority of people recover, so keeping them alive is obviously a bonus in the eyes of the world. Multi-suicide attempt survivors are fairly rare - a lot of people try once, fail, and never try again. It's why the pro-life people are so big on the "it gets better" message and the "call this number and talk to this person" thing. Even delaying someone by a few hours can stop them from dying.

(This is not the case for everyone. As I'm sure most of the people on this site appreciate, some of us are long time suicidal and have spent years caught in the safety web of the system. Also, in my experience as someone who's spent the better part of his life wanting to die, my risk of actually doing so tends to come in waves. I have a crisis, am forced to get through said crisis with or without attempting, get a bit "better" for a while, then repeat cycle.)

3. Killing yourself is hard. Unless you're unusual and have access to an easy means (firearm, place to hang yourself from, specific drugs, tall building), it's bloody difficult to kill yourself successfully.

Surviving an attempt has negative consequences too. Not only can you seriously harm yourself, but the social consequences are terrible. Your family and friends will never look at you the same way. You'll have to carry the shame of being a suicide attempt survivor for the rest of your life. In some places, you could be forced into hospital, or even prison. To many, the risk associated with not dying is simply too high to chance it.

Even if you did have a way to take your life that guaranteed success, overriding the survival instinct is close to impossible. If you try to drown, you'll find yourself fighting to swim. If you try to suffocate, you'll find yourself fighting to breath. If you try to jump, you'll find every muscle in your body screaming to run away from the ledge. There's a huge shot of automatic fight-and-flight type response in life and death situations, suicide attempts included. The primal urge to not die is extraordinarily powerful. It's so strong that you can actually look on in horror as you save yourself against your wishes. You can heart-and-soul want to die, and still be powerless to stop yourself from surviving.

(I have a suspicion this is why many folks don't attempt suicide twice: they face the survival instinct and see it as proof they really wanted to live all along. I guess whatever makes them happy.)

I imagine a change happens during the attempt where one feels unusually awake to what's happening and steps in. Most of the time im miserable but it's like I'm half awake as I experience it like it's unreal.

 

[thatlatealready]

I imagine a change happens during the attempt where one feels unusually awake to what's happening and steps in. Most of the time im miserable but it's like I'm half awake as I experience it like it's unreal.

I think I know what you mean. Sometimes it's been like that when I attempted, but it's usually more of a feeling like some primal part of the brain takes power. It's similar to what happens if you try to drown yourself in the bath, some part of you takes over and pulls you back up to the surface. For me, I usually experience some kind of depersonalisation while it's happening. It's like I'm stood watching myself in third person, powerless to stop myself from fighting to survive.

When I have attempted using methods that don't trigger the "oh fuck I'm about to die shit shit shit" response, such as overdosing on certain medications, I've remained calm and continued wanting to die the whole time. In fact, I was often met with a sense of peace knowing that soon it would be over. I would say the time brief time where I was able to stop the fear response and I also truly believed I was about to die was one of the happiest points in my life.

 

[Ambivalent1]

I think I know what you mean. Sometimes it's been like that when I attempted, but it's usually more of a feeling like some primal part of the brain takes power. It's similar to what happens if you try to drown yourself in the bath, some part of you takes over and pulls you back up to the surface. For me, I usually experience some kind of depersonalisation while it's happening. It's like I'm stood watching myself in third person, powerless to stop myself from fighting to survive.

When I have attempted using methods that don't trigger the "oh fuck I'm about to die shit shit shit" response, such as overdosing on certain medications, I've remained calm and continued wanting to die the whole time. In fact, I was often met with a sense of peace knowing that soon it would be over. I would say the time brief time where I was able to stop the fear response and I also truly believed I was about to die was one of the happiest points in my life.

A primal part has risen in me before when I was close to attempting, but it was an intense feeling of rage. I normally feel very little or anxious, so feeling rage was surprising.

Is there a way to predict what one will feel during an attempt? One's true feelings and not the fantasy one has of what it would be like.

 

[thatlatealready]

A primal part has risen in me before when I was close to attempting, but it was an intense feeling of rage. I normally feel very little or anxious, so feeling rage was surprising.

Is there a way to predict what one will feel during an attempt? One's true feelings and not the fantasy one has of what it would be like.

I'm not certain there is