25g of SN feels like an overkill

[MyPropellerWontSpin]

been considering taking around 10g instead, amounts as little as 1g can be lethal so 10g will definitely do the job
it would probably be easier to consume and to keep it down, I guess it would just take a bit longer to go unconscious, which I don't really mind cus I'm assuming that all the symptoms will be less severe (?)

will try to get my hands on an anti-emetic and benzo but its been looking grim and I think I might just rawdog it

now that I've written this out it feels like a bad idea but im just so tired I cba to go about it the right way, why does everything require so much effort

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

25 may be overkill (depending on your weight) and 10 a science experiment & a bad idea.

 

[tooafraidtodiez]

been considering taking around 10g instead, amounts as little as 1g can be lethal so 10g will definitely do the job
it would probably be easier to consume and to keep it down, I guess it would just take a bit longer to go unconscious, which I don't really mind cus I'm assuming that all the symptoms will be less severe (?)

will try to get my hands on an anti-emetic and benzo but its been looking grim and I think I might just rawdog it

now that I've written this out it feels like a bad idea but im just so tired I cba to go about it the right way, why does everything require so much effort

The point is to have an overkill dose so you pass out quickly and have minimal chance of survival. You can take 10 gram and wake up vomitting every couple hour and having teribble diarrhea as some survivor have told. Given the option, i'd go with 25g

 

[MyPropellerWontSpin]

25 may be overkill (depending on your weight) and 10 a science experiment & a bad idea.

I dont understand, how is 10g a science experiment if amounts around 0.6-1g can be lethal

You can take 10 gram and wake up vomitting every couple hour and having teribble diarrhea as some survivor have told.

could you maybe link the threads where ppl talk about surviving, I thought that survival after taking SN was only possible with medical intervention

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

I dont understand, how is 10g a science experiment if amounts around 0.6-1g can be lethal

could you maybe link the threads where ppl talk about surviving, I thought that survival after taking SN was only possible with medical intervention

We are both telling you the same thing, but for some reason you just don't like the answer.
If you wouldn't mind not dying, then take the 10g like you want.

 

[MyPropellerWontSpin]

We are both telling you the same thing, but for some reason you just don't like the answer.
If you wouldn't mind not dying, then take the 10g like you want.

its not that I dont like the answer, I genuinely dont understand why 10g wouldnt kill me if amounts much lesser than that are lethal
I remember seeing a thread where someone took 1g and almost died
and there was also another user on here who took 7g and went into cardiac arrest and they were saved only cus they were rushed to the hospital
but I apologize, following the protocol is safer of course
probs shouldnt have created this thread

 

[ih34rty0u]

The point is to have an overkill dose so you pass out quickly and have minimal chance of survival. You can take 10 gram and wake up vomitting every couple hour and having teribble diarrhea as some survivor have told. Given the option, i'd go with 25g

the point is taking 25g at once actually gives you a higher chance of throwing up most of SN.
overkill isn't useful when it comes to poisoning yourself. it will cause your body to fight back faster and stronger.

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

its not that I dont like the answer, I genuinely dont understand why 10g wouldnt kill me if amounts much lesser than that are lethal
I remember seeing a thread where someone took 1g and almost died
and there was also another user on here who took 7g and went into cardiac arrest and they were saved only cus they were rushed to the hospital
but I apologize, following the protocol is safer of course
probs shouldnt have created this thread

I hear you, and maybe the 10g would work. But maybe it wouldn't. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it to take that chance.

 

[wannabeangel]

i feel like technically you're kinda right, you overall don't need a heavy amount of SN to convert enough of your hemoglobin (having over 70% converted by pure SN is lethal, talked about this in one of my other threads or comments when messing with math and theories, my profile history should be visible) but you also have to take into account your metabolism, how fast your body absorbs enough SN before feeling sick, how many grams of hemoglobin somebody has in their blood, there's just a lot of variables that making a specific dose for everyone is hard, so they list a decently high dose that should fit for most

im also guessing that higher doses will work faster, as your body being overloaded with SN should make you pass out sooner especially with taking the proper benzos. i personally wouldn't risk it taking too low of a dose, with my weight + also being somewhat anemic still, so i have less hemoglobin needed to convert i would go with the chart's dose ~18g (if you know the purity of your SN, the one i'll get is >98% purity, i plan on doing the math to make sure i have at least the exact pure SN dose needed so im not worried about any impurities, but that's also me focusing on the little details even tho it's basically pure lol)

 

[idontknowwhatiam]

the point is taking 25g at once actually gives you a higher chance of throwing up most of SN.
overkill isn't useful when it comes to poisoning yourself. it will cause your body to fight back faster and stronger.

What are you basing your assumption on?

 

[abcdefg789]

I dont understand, how is 10g a science experiment if amounts around 0.6-1g can be lethal

could you maybe link the threads where ppl talk about surviving, I thought that survival after taking SN was only possible with medical intervention

plenty of SN survival stories. someone survived 4 days and was found. others have followed the PPeH protocol and it failed for them.

it is also not peaceful from the experiences I've read. you'd want to do it with benzos I'd say. And without an anti emetic, seems likely to fail
try searching SN failure

I hear you, and maybe the 10g would work. But maybe it wouldn't. It's up to you to decide if it's worth it to take that chance.

Exactly. It's not an exact science. I stumbled across a submission to a government inquiry recently and it detailed cases were medically assisted dying failed... similarly with the dealth penalty... there's no guarantees and further intervention can be required by the medicos to get someone to CTB. i.e. they follow the protocol and it's not getting the person over the line so they have to supplement.

It may not seem like it, but it is actually bloody hard to CTB. It takes a lot of time, energy and effort and there's no guarantees.

 

[ih34rty0u]

What are you basing your assumption on?

we have a lot of reported cases (in media and here on SaSu) where people have died from lower amounts, like 10g. i think we can say that the lethal dose is much lower than 25g.

of course people still die while taking 20-25g, but i read of a bunch of stories where they threw up despite taking meto and survived.

and while almost everyone who attempts this method throws up, it seems like the main success factor is how much of SN vommiting would get out (its also why fasting is recommended).

taking more SN = more irritated GI tract, which will alert the brain and send your body into a full panic mode. you can't fool it, it knows it's getting poisoned and a higher dose will strengthen every single defense mechanism. meto can't always outrun it.

this is also why it is recommended to limit the amount of drugs you take along with SN, since it causes more toxins to accumulate inside the body at once.

if you take a lower dose it will be easier to prevent excess vomiting. of course the dose cant be too low - it would take forever to die, but i think the recommendations in the chart above are definitely enough. i'd take even a bit less (about 15g) if i eventually choose this method.

 

[tooafraidtodiez]

I dont understand, how is 10g a science experiment if amounts around 0.6-1g can be lethal

could you maybe link the threads where ppl talk about surviving, I thought that survival after taking SN was only possible with medical intervention

But is there a guarantee you won't vomit if you take 10g? If you take 10g and vomit let's say 5g, you'd only have 5g left in your system and that won't be enough to CTB. Whereas if you take 20g and vomit let's say 10g, you'd still have 10g left in your system and that may be enough. For survivor cases there are plenty but i lost the link. One person took about 3 grams and failed, another couldn't finish the drink also failed, lastly someone took 20g of PC SN and survived.
I'm not saying you should take more than 20g since it's most definitely the source fault, but since she took such a large amount and survived, it's probably better to take a minimum high dose. As for antiemetics you should try getting them online, i don't know where to get some, but maybe you can make a thread about it and people will help you out.

 

[MyPropellerWontSpin]

i feel like technically you're kinda right, you overall don't need a heavy amount of SN to convert enough of your hemoglobin (having over 70% converted by pure SN is lethal, talked about this in one of my other threads or comments when messing with math and theories, my profile history should be visible) but you also have to take into account your metabolism, how fast your body absorbs enough SN before feeling sick, how many grams of hemoglobin somebody has in their blood, there's just a lot of variables that making a specific dose for everyone is hard, so they list a decently high dose that should fit for most

im also guessing that higher doses will work faster, as your body being overloaded with SN should make you pass out sooner especially with taking the proper benzos. i personally wouldn't risk it taking too low of a dose, with my weight + also being somewhat anemic still, so i have less hemoglobin needed to convert i would go with the chart's dose ~18g (if you know the purity of your SN, the one i'll get is >98% purity, i plan on doing the math to make sure i have at least the exact pure SN dose needed so im not worried about any impurities, but that's also me focusing on the little details even tho it's basically pure lol)

woah I never thought that being anemic could affect an SN attempt, I'm pretty sure I have anemia, got my blood tested a few years ago
will definitely be taking this into account
the reason as to why I initially thought that 10g would do the job is because im much smaller than the average human, but I'll most likely think abt taking around 15g-17g, just to be safe
thanks for the reply

 

[Zaphkiel]

we have a lot of reported cases (in media and here on SaSu) where people have died from lower amounts, like 10g. i think we can say that the lethal dose is much lower than 25g.

of course people still die while taking 20-25g, but i read of a bunch of stories where they threw up despite taking meto and survived.

and while almost everyone who attempts this method throws up, it seems like the main success factor is how much of SN vommiting would get out (its also why fasting is recommended).

taking more SN = more irritated GI tract, which will alert the brain and send your body into a full panic mode. you can't fool it, it knows it's getting poisoned and a higher dose will strengthen every single defense mechanism. meto can't always outrun it.

this is also why it is recommended to limit the amount of drugs you take along with SN, since it causes more toxins to accumulate inside the body at once.

if you take a lower dose it will be easier to prevent excess vomiting. of course the dose cant be too low - it would take forever to die, but i think the recommendations in the chart above are definitely enough. i'd take even a bit less (about 15g) if i eventually choose this method.

Yeah and even a gunshot to the face can leave you living.
It's been well documented and except a few oupsies with lower grams, all of the known case were made with 20+ grams (depending of user weight) because it takes into account the speed of the process, and also assum you gonna throw up, and therefore wont suffer much anyway due to having a sufficient dose in your system.
Most fo us are not knowledgeable so please dont try to play pretty little chemist here, it's just a recipe to disaster.
There are protocols wich have been made with a lot of years and people's effort (and deaths) behind them.
Spewing "trust me bro" level of advice is uncalled for.

 

[ih34rty0u]

Yeah and even a gunshot to the face can leave you living.
It's been well documented and except a few oupsies with lower grams, all of the known case were made with 20+ grams (depending of user weight) because it takes into account the speed of the process, and also assum you gonna throw up, and therefore wont suffer much anyway due to having a sufficient dose in your system.
Most fo us are not knowledgeable so please dont try to play pretty little chemist here, it's just a recipe to disaster.
There are protocols wich have been made with a lot of years and people's effort (and deaths) behind them.
Spewing "trust me bro" level of advice is uncalled for.

sorry lmao my bad people should be taking 200g just in case

 

[Zaphkiel]

sorry lmao my bad people should be taking 200g just in case

It's an idiot's reply and it's particulary fitting.

 

[youremy]

What's the lowest dose that's been documented successfully, and what's the highest dose that's been documented unsuccessful?

Is there any source for "1 g successfully ingested is enough to be lethal"?

Both arguments have the same fatal flaw:

- Ingest 10 g, because you'll have a lower chance of vomiting, and thus increase the amount you actually absorb.
OK, but if you vomit at the same time as if you ingested 20 g you'd rather have 20 g be digesting in your stomach over the 10 g you went for.

- Ingest 20 g, because if you vomit you'll at least have got as much into your bloodstream as possible.
But perhaps if you ingested 10 g you wouldn't have vomited as early.

It's all speculation that rests on user reports. Add to that the differences in physiology between individuals (huge: just look at how SSRIs are applied in a psychiatric setting; obviously this is just rhetoric since SSRI ≠ lethal poison but the user reports speak for themselves and can easily replace this argument), differences in SI and how it manifests (one person will spend 2 hours gathering the courage to take his dose, while another will take it immediately and then want to call the paramedics) and you've got pure guesswork.

Does anybody have any research papers or medical reports they can link to?

 

[wannabeangel]

Is there any source for "1 g successfully ingested is enough to be lethal"?

this as far as i can see from research is because if you do the math of how much pure SN is needed to convert 70% of hemoglobin to methemoglobin (enough to be fatal) outside of factors like metabolism, can range from being about or a tad over 1g-2g, depends on how big you are tho and if you're anemic you have less hemoglobin you need to convert in the first place. i think that's where the 1g can kill you (technically) is expressed as it is true despite it most likely taking slower compared to high doses, that's mainly to warn people going out of their way to "test" their SN on themselves. if someone was to say try and test try 3g thinking since you need 15-25g then 3g surely wont be enough when it 100% can if untreated

it's def mainly speculation when it comes to the dosing though it seems, i kinda look at the higher dose = *usually* more likely to work better and/or faster similarly to a common poison many enjoy, alcohol! the same way as if you chugged a 2 strong drinks vs a 2 light ones, one of those will hit you a LOT harder and faster than the other even if you drank it in the same amount of time. the more there is -> the more your body can take in at once -> the sooner and harder it hits you. same reason not eating before drinking gets you drunk faster, there's nothing in the way of it reaching all the surface area to soak in. i'll have to look up more resources but this article shares two people who cried to CTB using SN, the man who had 18g passed in the hospital, and the woman who had about 12.5g was able to be recovered with interventions https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9282115/ i would have to dig more and see if i can find any trends in amounts used or if it's still just a game of chance

 

[youremy]

this as far as i can see from research is because if you do the math of how much pure SN is needed to convert 70% of hemoglobin to methemoglobin (enough to be fatal) outside of factors like metabolism, can range from being about or a tad over 1g-2g, depends on how big you are tho and if you're anemic you have less hemoglobin you need to convert in the first place. i think that's where the 1g can kill you (technically) is expressed as it is true despite it most likely taking slower compared to high doses, that's mainly to warn people going out of their way to "test" their SN on themselves. if someone was to say try and test try 3g thinking since you need 15-25g then 3g surely wont be enough when it 100% can if untreated

it's def mainly speculation when it comes to the dosing though it seems, i kinda look at the higher dose = *usually* more likely to work better and/or faster similarly to a common poison many enjoy, alcohol! the same way as if you chugged a 2 strong drinks vs a 2 light ones, one of those will hit you a LOT harder and faster than the other even if you drank it in the same amount of time. the more there is -> the more your body can take in at once -> the sooner and harder it hits you. same reason not eating before drinking gets you drunk faster, there's nothing in the way of it reaching all the surface area to soak in. i'll have to look up more resources but this article shares two people who cried to CTB using SN, the man who had 18g passed in the hospital, and the woman who had about 12.5g was able to be recovered with interventions https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9282115/ i would have to dig more and see if i can find any trends in amounts used or if it's still just a game of chance

Can you provide the math that leads to the 1-2 g result?

 

[wannabeangel]

Can you provide the math that leads to the 1-2 g result?

yes im no math expert so it's from what i researched but the math is this, for total hemoglobin lets go in the lower end of average and say 500g (mine is roughly 373g from my last bloodwork and weight but im anemic)'' since the amount of SN needed pure cell is a 1:1 ratio the biggest part is just calculating the hemoglobin

get total moles of hemoglobin
500 % 64,458g/mol (molecular weight of Hb) = ~0.007756

get moles of heme (has 4 things so 4)
0.00756 x 4 = ~0.031024

kinda guess SN weight by its molecular mass
0.031024 x 69.00 (nice) = ~2.141g of SN to convert 100% (%70 is like 1.5g)

with my kinda bloodwork 1.5g being ingested would convert 100% of my blood to be useless. anything above 50% is life threatening and above 70% its def fatal unless maybe treated very quickly, but without treatment passing 50% is deadly

 

[Sakura.]

It's an idiot's reply and it's particulary fitting.

dont try to play pretty little chemist here

Spewing "trust me bro" level of advice is uncalled for.

How you could write something so horrible to her? Regardless of whether you agree with her opinion or not, you have absolutely no right to address her in such a horrible way! This girl immediately commented after your post that she would commit suicide because of it. Would you really be proud of yourself if you were the direct cause of her taking her own life because of you?

Even if you disagreed with the content of her post, you had no right to comment on it in such a horrible way! Could you really not have engaged in a polite and civilized discussion with her instead of insulting her so much that she wanted to commit suicide because of you?

I don't understand how you could have done something so horrible to her. She is such a wonderful person and absolutely does not deserve to be treated this way!

You know what kind of forum you're on, you know that so many people here are mentally unstable and could harm themselves impulsively and thoughtlessly if triggered, yet you insulted her so horribly that she almost took her own life because of you.

 

[Dot]

What's the lowest dose that's been documented successfully, and what's the highest dose that's been documented unsuccessful?

Is there any source for "1 g successfully ingested is enough to be lethal"?

Both arguments have the same fatal flaw:

- Ingest 10 g, because you'll have a lower chance of vomiting, and thus increase the amount you actually absorb.
OK, but if you vomit at the same time as if you ingested 20 g you'd rather have 20 g be digesting in your stomach over the 10 g you went for.

- Ingest 20 g, because if you vomit you'll at least have got as much into your bloodstream as possible.
But perhaps if you ingested 10 g you wouldn't have vomited as early.

It's all speculation that rests on user reports. Add to that the differences in physiology between individuals (huge: just look at how SSRIs are applied in a psychiatric setting; obviously this is just rhetoric since SSRI ≠ lethal poison but the user reports speak for themselves and can easily replace this argument), differences in SI and how it manifests (one person will spend 2 hours gathering the courage to take his dose, while another will take it immediately and then want to call the paramedics) and you've got pure guesswork.

Does anybody have any research papers or medical reports they can link to?

Usr @sadworld ctb whn 'testng' thr SN - thy pt in liqud & drnk a fw sips & thy wre gne

Also

Fatal Sodium Nitrite Poisoning: Key Considerations for Prehospital Providers - PubMed

Sodium nitrite is a powerful oxidizing agent that causes hypotension and limits oxygen transport and delivery in the body through the formation of methemoglobin. Clinical manifestations can include cyanosis, hypoxia, altered consciousness, dysrhythmias, and death. The majority of reports on...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thre r mre cses - 1 of whch ws a nurs wh/ tk 1g & ctb bt slf cnnt fnd tht artcle rght nw

Yeah and even a gunshot to the face can leave you living.
It's been well documented and except a few oupsies with lower grams, all of the known case were made with 20+ grams (depending of user weight) because it takes into account the speed of the process, and also assum you gonna throw up, and therefore wont suffer much anyway due to having a sufficient dose in your system.
Most fo us are not knowledgeable so please dont try to play pretty little chemist here, it's just a recipe to disaster.
There are protocols wich have been made with a lot of years and people's effort (and deaths) behind them.
Spewing "trust me bro" level of advice is uncalled for.

Hw incredbly rde - "prtty littl chemst" - s/ u r throwng sme casul misogny in thre also

Th/ erly recgnisd dse in SN protcl ws 10g bt ws increasd bcse th/ PPEH writrs wre tryn2 mke dosges whch wre fastr s/ wld gve th/ smallst amnt of suffrng pssble

Ppl hve ctb usng vriety of dosge amnts & thse amnts hve rangd frm 1g t/ 25g

Th/ lessn frm tht = t/ recgnise tht prtty mch n.e amnt of of SN cn b fatl s/ = nt smethng 2 b playng arnd wth

Thre = nt mch scienc in SN dosges - jst tril & errr basd on documntatn of ppl takng dffrnt amnts


Pls b respctfl t/ othr usrs on th/ frum as u no1 knws mch mre thn n.e1 els

 

[Zaphkiel]

I'm wowed.
I dont even Know her supposed gênder.
It's all an expression if it's about the '' pretty'' and if it's about the' 'trust me bro' ' it's often used in internet.
You jumped on assumptions here.
Also I probably did more for the féministe cause than you ever did. No offense.

As for above dot. Not really, to be honest. If such discussion make her to do such a post, it' s more an excuse rather than anything else.
Yeah I know where we are.
And I know of a lot of people's circumstances.

Finally, I stand by my point. While there are outlier, there are protocols that were done with extensive research and with documented actual deaths. And failures.

Going by gut's feeling aint gonna cut it, sorry.

Now think what you want.
If I Felt I was in a réal confrontation I would have logged on much earlier. Not something like 1 week after haha.