Help Zinc + calcium carbonate method

[24 Hour Store]

So I'm wondering if anyone has any other information on the zinc/calcium carbonate method. This method caught my eyes as the ingredients as easily obtainable as opposed to the formic/sulphuric acid method. Any information is welcome, thank you.

I managed to find some information on this method from an archive website.

The method:
The calcium carbonate powder reacts with the zinc metal powder when heated, giving calcium oxide, zinc oxide, and CO gas.

CaC03 + Zn -> CaO + ZnO + CO

To create one mole of CO-gas, you need 100g CaC03 and 65.3g Zn (assuming
complete reaction). The zinc and calcium carbonate should be finely powdered and well-mixed to speed up the reaction.

One mole of gas fills up 22.4 cubic decimeters (22.4 liters). You should have a concentration of at least 1% CO in the air to kill yourself.

Questions

1. Has anyone tried this method? If so does it work and what happened?
2. How much heat is needed and how quickly would the CO be produced

 

[HannibalLector]

I have also put some thought into this method. Many are failing with briquettes and many of us dont have access to sulfuric acid (sulfuric acid + formic acid = CO).

SAFETY CONCERNS and Zinc and Calcium Carbonate
After doing some chemical calculations i found that the lowest theoretical temperature for the reaction to take place is 499,5 degrees celcius.

Autoignition temperature - lowest temperature at which it spontaneously ignites in normal atmosphere without an external source of ignition. Lower flammability limit (12,5 % for CO), the lowest concentration (percentage) of CO in air capable of producing a flash of fire in presence of an ignition source.

Then noted that the autoignition temperature for carbon monoxide is 609 degrees celcius. The margin of error between 499,5 and 609 degrees celcius is small. The explosive limits - also referred to as flammability limits - are between 12,5-74,2 %.

Nitschke recommend concentration over 1%.

Summary
So is there any risk heating zinc and calcium carbonate with an electric heater that you might end up putting yourself on fire and sentenced for arson?

Its unlikely to produce concentrations of CO above 12,5 %. So the lower flammability limit is probably not a safety concern - this means you cant start a fire in a room with CO at ctb concentrations at 1 %. CO wont burn in a room at that low concentrations. But its likely that when we heat zinc and calcium carbonate to 500 degrees celcius that we will accidentally reach 609 degrees celcius. But if the reaction produce flame probably you could just turn down heat. And you need quite a electric burner to reach 500 degrees celcius, they are expensive.

Feedback appreciated.

 

[24 Hour Store]

I have also put some thought into this method. Many are failing with briquettes and many of us dont have access to sulfuric acid (sulfuric acid + formic acid = CO).

SAFETY CONCERNS and Zinc and Calcium Carbonate
After doing some chemical calculations i found that the lowest theoretical temperature for the reaction to take place is 499,5 degrees celcius.

Autoignition temperature - lowest temperature at which it spontaneously ignites in normal atmosphere without an external source of ignition. Lower flammability limit (12,5 % for CO), the lowest concentration (percentage) of CO in air capable of producing a flash of fire in presence of an ignition source.

Then noted that the autoignition temperature for carbon monoxide is 609 degrees celcius. The margin of error between 499,5 and 609 degrees celcius is small. The explosive limits - also referred to as flammability limits - are between 12,5-74,2 %.

Nitschke recommend concentration over 1%.

Summary
So is there any risk heating zinc and calcium carbonate with an electric heater that you might end up putting yourself on fire and sentenced for arson?

Its unlikely to produce concentrations of CO above 12,5 %. So the lower flammability limit is probably not a safety concern - this means you cant start a fire in a room with CO at ctb concentrations at 1 %. CO wont burn in a room at that low concentrations. But its likely that when we heat zinc and calcium carbonate to 500 degrees celcius that we will accidentally reach 609 degrees celcius. But if the reaction produce flame probably you could just turn down heat. And you need quite a electric burner to reach 500 degrees celcius, they are expensive.

Feedback appreciated.

We're fucked.

Sorry, after reading that I've lost hope. How did you come to figure out the theoretical temperature for the reaction to take place?

I really appreciate the feedback by the way, Thank you. I'm sorry I haven't been able to provide any additional information.

 

[HannibalLector]

We're fucked.

Sorry, after reading that I've lost hope. How did you come to figure out the theoretical temperature for the reaction to take place?

I really appreciate the feedback by the way, Thank you. I'm sorry I haven't been able to provide any additional information.

Just like you i started out wondering at what temperature the reaction would occur. I searched but couldnt find the answer. Since i have some knowledge in chemistry i just did the math (its just simple chemistry calculations), i hope its correct. Its a shame the Nitschke left out that information.

 

[24 Hour Store]

Just like you i started out wondering at what temperature the reaction would occur. I searched but couldnt find the answer. Since i have some knowledge in chemistry i just did the math (its just simple chemistry calculations), i hope its correct. Its a shame the Nitschke left out that information.

You mentioned you don't have access to the sulphuric/formic acid method. With your chemistry background have you thought of producing sulphuric acid yourself at home?

 

[HannibalLector]

You mentioned you don't have access to the sulphuric/formic acid method. With your chemistry background have you thought of producing sulphuric acid yourself at home?

Yes, i know multiple ways to do that. But after i produced sulfuric acid i need to boil it to increase concentration, and that is such a dull task. And i will produce so small amounts that i will have to repeat the procedure. Im also worried that if i do too many experiments in my backyard i will make the neighbors suspicious. Im planing to make cyanide so i dont want draw attention before i have accomplished that.

Regarding zinc and calcium carbonate
Another way to double check my calculations is buy a cheap carbon monoxide meter and see at what temperature it starts to produce. A real meter with digits would be best but it would be sufficient with a simple smoke detector (maybe you already have one in your home?). When the fire alarm goes off you know that its happening. :)

 

[24 Hour Store]

Yes, i know multiple ways to do that. But after i produced sulfuric acid i need to boil it to increase concentration, and that is such a dull task. And i will produce so small amounts that i will have to repeat the procedure. Im also worried that if i do too many experiments in my backyard i will make the neighbors suspicious. Im planing to make cyanide so i dont want draw attention before i have accomplished that.

Regarding zinc and calcium carbonate
Another way to double check my calculations is buy a cheap carbon monoxide meter and see at what temperature it starts to produce. A real meter with digits would be best but it would be sufficient with a simple smoke detector (maybe you already have one in your home?). When the fire alarm goes off you know that its happening. :)

But how are you going to produce temperatures of up to 500°C in a controlled way? Also are you from the UK? I am thinking of ordering OneShot drain cleaner (91% sulphuric acid) from Ebay, Amazon no longer sell it due to acid attacks (which is why I'm nervous of buying it).

 

[HannibalLector]

Regarding the accuracy of my estimate of the reaction temperature.

The reaction temperature is over 420C, as that is the temperature at which the zinc melts, allowing it to come into contact with calcium carbonate.

So my calculations are probably correct.

 

[bbq1]

Smoke detector doesn't pick up CO. Totally separate technology in either. When I did some basic tests I got a digi CO meter from argos for £30, did the tests over 3 days then returned it.

One shot drain cleaner can be bought if your over 18 at plumbase.

 

[Voldmort]

We're fucked.

Sorry, after reading that I've lost hope. How did you come to figure out the theoretical temperature for the reaction to take place?

I really appreciate the feedback by the way, Thank you. I'm sorry I haven't been able to provide any additional information.

yeahhh! I thought it should warm up to at least 200 ° C ....
im back with sulfuric acid and formic acid

 

[a.h]

Yes, i know multiple ways to do that. But after i produced sulfuric acid i need to boil it to increase concentration, and that is such a dull task. And i will produce so small amounts that i will have to repeat the procedure. Im also worried that if i do too many experiments in my backyard i will make the neighbors suspicious. Im planing to make cyanide so i dont want draw attention before i have accomplished that.

Regarding zinc and calcium carbonate
Another way to double check my calculations is buy a cheap carbon monoxide meter and see at what temperature it starts to produce. A real meter with digits would be best but it would be sufficient with a simple smoke detector (maybe you already have one in your home?). When the fire alarm goes off you know that its happening. :)

Car battery acid is 100% sulphuric acid where I live. I assume it's always at least 90%. But those acids create burning and very smelly fumes unless a person can build the device for it.

 

[Chucchy]

But how are you going to produce temperatures of up to 500°C in a controlled way? Also are you from the UK? I am thinking of ordering OneShot drain cleaner (91% sulphuric acid) from Ebay, Amazon no longer sell it due to acid attacks (which is why I'm nervous of buying it).

What will you do with the drain cleaner , for what method? Sorry if that's a silly question!