“You can’t think your way out of depression”

[Cloud Busting]

If this is true, then why do the types of people who say this also tend to recommend therapy…. Which is essentially thinking your way out of depression?


Make it make sense

 

[fallendevil]

I agree. Thinking literally makes it worse because I'm pretty sure people who have high intelligence are more likely to struggle with mental illness since they're constantly thinking of the worst possible scenario. Talk therapy is overrated and I think therapy that literally goes into your brain and fixes it into place like EMDR is the best method.

Depression only really gets better with time and active intervention like community and going outside and being healthy and removing societal stressors, and even then sometimes you're just kinda fucked.

 

[The Morningstar]

I've never heard this expression, but my first thought is that it's trying to discourage isolation. Talking to people is better than being alone, and whatnot.

 

[Cloud Busting]

I agree. Thinking literally makes it worse because I'm pretty sure people who have high intelligence are more likely to struggle with mental illness since they're constantly thinking of the worst possible scenario. Talk therapy is overrated and I think therapy that literally goes into your brain and fixes it into place like EMDR is the best method.

Depression only really gets better with time and active intervention like community and going outside and being healthy and removing societal stressors, and even then sometimes you're just kinda fucked.

Isn't edmr pseudoscience? Idk it seems like bullshit to me

I've never heard this expression, but my first thought is that it's trying to discourage isolation. Talking to people is better than being alone, and whatnot.

Ah I would agree. You can think yourself way out of depression, but not in a vacuum haha. You need an unbiased third party to redirect your thoughts. Good point!

 

[U. A.]

You sure can think your way into it though, if you think about the horrid current state of the world...

Isn't edmr pseudoscience?

I think so - by which I refer to the proper definition of pseudoscience, which is something purporting to be scientific when it is in fact not.

The following passage from the EMDR Institute screams pseudoscience to me - afaik there is no established "traumatic memory network":

"Shapiro (1995, 2001) hypothesizes that EMDR therapy facilitates the accessing of the traumatic memory network, so that information processing is enhanced, with new associations forged between the traumatic memory and more adaptive memories or information."​

Francine Shapiro just randomlt thought up the process one day when she felt less anxious after talking a walk in the woods and noticing her eyes flitting about. This totally ignores the therapeutic benefits of nature & exercise, and the fact that humans generally have this specific kind of eye movement in response to general external stimuli.

Other critics have been more damning, comparing it to that "one weird trick", noting the absurdity that we might have unlocked the vast secrets of the human brain (of which we truky know absolutely nothing) by doing something so ridiculously simple. EMDR has not been found to be any more effective than any other form of major cognitive therapy, which nearly all rely on the same premise of exposure under safe circumstances.

Evidence has been mounting for a long time that one of the most, if not the most important factors in a successful therapeutic experience is the relationship between therapist and client. This could potentially be at play if those offering EMDR aren't the usual clinician assholes we all know and hate. There could also be an element of placebo aspect at play - with all the hype of EMDR being a "miracle cure" one may go into it having higher expectations it will work.

Only things like drugs or TMS (or...lobotomies) really work the brain directly, but they also are subject to placebo, failure, and are not without their own risks. The problem is studies are usually funded by those with vested interest in showing success. We're fucked for transparency in options, really.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Maybe because in therapy, it's the therapist doing the analytical thinking- or- should be. I can't say I've had much therapy but, they may focus on trying to get us to change behaviours that are unhelpful. I assume that's what CBT is about.

So, we're not thinking our way out- they are to the larger extent. But, I suppose we would have to use thought to follow their instructions.

For example, in my last session- as it turned out to be- I decided to quit. The therapist asked me to make a conscious effort not to apologize so much. So- she was the one who'd worked out that might not be helping me. Then- it would be up to me to follow and implement her advice.

I suppose the whole point of it is to have someone looking in from the outside and hopefully, figuring out what we need to do to get ourselves out of the mess we're in.

 

[Dejected 55]

People also recommend exercise. Exercise is supposed to make you feel better and relieve stress. But whenever I exercise, I really have only one other thing I can do while exercising and that is to think... so exercise does nothing for me but ensure I have undistracted thinking about all of the bad things in my life.

And, yeah, therapy and therapists are a bunch of shit. They care as long and as much as you pay them... that's it.