Venting You are not entitled to ... but suicide is selfish

[rhiino]

They don't give people the means to live and they don't give them the means to die. This society pushes people closer to suicide whether it wants to admit it or not. It's a far worse dystopian nightmare than I've ever read of in any book.

Wise words.

 

[DeathIsTheWayOut99]

Yeah I hope when I die....people will understnd
But probably not

 

[Abgrundanziehung]

Bumping this topic as it is really important and highlights the hypocrisy and irony of society.

It is almost halfway into the year 2020 and yet society still strongly denies us a peaceful, dignified exit. If I were someone in charge and made the rules, laws, I would at least allow people to have a peaceful, dignified exit if nothing else. That's the least a mature and compassionate society can do for someone. Sometimes there are no solutions and there is no peace or resolution for someone, therefore, the best and kindest thing society and government can do is just to allow said person to forgo indefinite amount of suffering by granting them a peaceful, dignified exit. But no, euthanasia is still illegal in many parts of the world, death with dignity only applies to terminally ill people 'who are of sound mind' (which is of course, determined by the physicians, medical professionals in charge, to their sole discretion).

However, society refuses to allow that due to antiquated religious dogmatic views, cult-like beliefs that life is a virtue and that life is valuable (secular humanism), and for government, consumption and generation of taxes, revenue (ironic since there are people who don't contribute to society and a subset of those, who are malignant). As long as things remain as they are today, many people will continue to suffer and those that choose to leave will resort to methods that are less reliable, violent, and/or result in collateral damage, greatly inconvenience the people around him/her, and other unwanted consequences. Sometimes, I'd think that society and government doesn't care about the result, the consequences, and that it may be part and parcel of the sick, twisted, modern society we live in, but what do I know...

Can't agree more. I think a lot of people just reflexively believe what they've always been taught to believe and don't actually think it through. If they were forced to justify their reasoning why people don't deserve true death with dignity for both terminally ill and the terminally misfortunate, we would find their core belief is irrational. Like "my holy book says so" or "life is always worth living." Hard to change the minds of people who, lets say, struggle with critical thinking. lt's shameful we don't allow people to bring their lives to an end with proper closure and effective, painless means that already exist. I'm a caregiver at an assisted living and have been there for so many dying people and their families. I've seen how important it is to have support during these times. But legally, no one can do the same for me if and when I do decide it's time.

 

[TAW122]

Can't agree more. I think a lot of people just reflexively believe what they've always been taught to believe and don't actually think it through. If they were forced to justify their reasoning why people don't deserve true death with dignity for both terminally ill and the terminally misfortunate, we would find their core belief is irrational. Like "my holy book says so" or "life is always worth living." Hard to change the minds of people who, lets say, struggle with critical thinking. lt's shameful we don't allow people to bring their lives to an end with proper closure and effective, painless means that already exist. I'm a caregiver at an assisted living and have been there for so many dying people and their families. I've seen how important it is to have support during these times. But legally, no one can do the same for me if and when I do decide it's time.

I think the vast majority of people lack critical thinking, but even for those who do have and exercise critical thinking, they still arrive at some conclusion that life is great and it's worth living, which really baffles me. It's almost as though their biological instincts coupled with their indocrination (or societal indoctrination) is what keeps them from seeing the other side of things or accepting another view point contrary to their beliefs. I do want to reiterate though, that I have no issue with them deciding that life is for them (and themselves only), but when they decide to push that onto others who don't share their views (most of us on here are pro-choicers as we believe in the right to choose how, when, and where one dies), that's where they have overstepped their authority and violated our rights.

The irony is that many "my body my choice" people (not limited to abortion but even other movements related to bodily autonomy and sex) fall silent at best on the issues with respect to the right to self-determination and freedom of choice of life or death. At worst, they side with the pro-lifers and throw their logic out the window when it comes to pro-choice of life or death. A lot of them base their views on mental illnesses, permanence of the act (suicide), and just illogical and irrational pro-life arguments. In a sense, I would consider those groups of people to be disingenuous and hypocritical because they support the right to choose when it comes to abortion, sex, and other human rights as well as bodily autonomy, yet when it comes to the most fundamental and biggest decision one can make, they go against it.

 

[Abgrundanziehung]

The irony is that many "my body my choice" people (not limited to abortion but even other movements related to bodily autonomy and sex) fall silent at best on the issues with respect to the right to self-determination and freedom of choice of life or death. At worst, they side with the pro-lifers and throw their logic out the window when it comes to pro-choice of life or death. A lot of them base their views on mental illnesses, permanence of the act (suicide), and just illogical and irrational pro-life arguments. In a sense, I would consider those groups of people to be disingenuous and hypocritical because they support the right to choose when it comes to abortion, sex, and other human rights as well as bodily autonomy, yet when it comes to the most fundamental and biggest decision one can make, they go against it.

You're right. It's deeply weird to me that people who are pro-choice in other ways aren't when it comes to this. So much of the information out there about suicide is just plain false. No one is even really allowed to say that it can be a rational choice. We can only talk about it on a special forum and some of those same people think that should be banned!

 

[rhiino]

The problem is that suicidal people cannot speak up for themselves, as they risk being "jailed" and also often just lack the energy to do so. Thus it needs non-suicidal pro-choice people that speak up. They, however, have no self-interest in doing so and because of the huge backlash of the society regarding this topic they probably always choose to stay silent.

 

[person123]

The problem is that suicidal people cannot speak up for themselves, as they risk being "jailed" and also often just lack the energy to do so. Thus it needs non-suicidal pro-choice people that speak up. They, however, have no self-interest in doing so and because of the huge backlash of the society regarding this topic they probably always choose to stay silent.

Suicidal people can leave suicide notes, where they elaborate their views. Some people that died, have done so.

 

[rhiino]

Yes, but a note is only a note. Worst case nobody even reads it. If they read, they still misconceive the content.

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

No. Having control over your life is not selfish. It's not coward to end your life. You are the owner of your life. You can decide when and how to end it. There's not a universal law that tells you that you can't ctb. CTB is an option. An act of self deliverance. An act of freedom from a life you can't go on with.