Venting Yet more examples proving that pro-lifers only care about preventing the act rather than the outcome of their actions!

[TAW122]

This is certainly not a new topic and various topics I have discussed about the central premise being that "pro-lifers only care about intervening to prevent the act (CTB) itself, but doesn't care about the aftermath that results from their actions." In this thread however, I will share some more examples I found that support my premise.

In fact, they would rather even have their targets be mad at them and alive than dead and at peace. For instance, there are people in the world who have died whether via CTB or by other causes that they don't know/have knowledge of and they aren't really bothered by that. In fact, they (the pro-lifers) continue to live their lives like any other mundane, ordinary day. They only care if they know/have knowledge of the prospective CTB. Ignorance is bliss and what one doesn't know can't hurt them (the pro-lifers).

Even as the writing of this article, there are perhaps millions in the world who CTB each year and you don't hear about people going out of their way to intervene those (in fact there are many who do it even as we debate these arguments). However! It's when they have knowledge it suddenly 'bothers' them and they have to stop it. It's all the same at the end, feeding their egos and not wanting to confront the reality that is life. What does someone in a third world country/impoverished area and a nobody dies or succumbs to mortality? People don't really give a shit that much, maybe (pretend to) give a shit only to look "good" and be some model citizen…

Here are some examples that show how pro-lifers don't care about the aftermath, only their egos and about preventing the 'act of ultimate bodily autonomy'.

Example 1

if anyone feels up to messaging me i would love to have someone(s) to discuss this and update on so i can get some wisdom in a multitude of counsel here.
just got back from a 2 week trip visiting my LD gf of 2.5 years, during which we talked a lot about the future and wanting to get married etc.

without getting into the details she's going through a lot of hell and her life seems a bit impossible rn. this morning she was talking with certitude about going to kill herself and kept trying to hang up.

eventually she did, then turned her locations off. i didn't want to, but i didn't know what else to do so i called the police and let them know.

they went and checked on her and of course she just told them the things she said were just out of frustration and she wasn't suicidal, but that wasn't what she told me.

the police called me back and informed me of everything, and she texted me saying don't ever talk to me again and blocked me.

so, i guess if anyones at risk of killing themselves now it's me, because what the fuck.

update: she's since said she doesn't feel safe with me or i broke her trust due to the fact that i called the cops when she illegally (underage) has alcohol and weed. (both are legal over 21 there) and she also says she was extremely scared being a poc and that welfare checks often go bad and she also could've easily been sent to the hospital and been faced with medical bills she could never repay.

obviously i didn't know most of this nor did i have the time to process all of that info and those potentialities when i made the call.

Ignorant comment by a pro-lifer in that thread:

Calling the police for a wellness check is the last choice option but she put you in a last choice situation. If someone is saying they're going to kill themselves and then disappears that's when you should call the police.
Would you rather call the police and piss off the person who is still alive or not call the police and spend the rest of your life wondering that maybe if you had called them she would still be alive and if you should have done something to stop her

You made the right call. See her blocking you as your opportunity to move on and not look back

-TheseConversations

Example 2

My (26f) friend (27nb) texted me an hour ago that they don't want to live anymore, told me to leave them alone and put their phone on silent. (I heard after that they also texted another friend about taking their life)
Their roommate was 20 minutes away from the apartment and had been told to stay away by my friend.

I called the police/Fire department and told them what happened and they went to check on her. The roommate also arrived at the same time.

My friend (luckily alive) has now been texting me that I overdid it and that they want me out of their life. They hate the police and said that if I knew them well enough I wouldn't have called the police. They will be taken to the psychiatric ward for at least one night.

I feel so sad and overwhelmed and worried that I did actually over-do it as they weren't in physical danger when the police arrived. On the other hand I don't fing care how they are stopped from offing themselves as long as they don't succeed and are safe… im so afraid of what's to come And just wanted to tell someone about it

Update: My friend left the psychiatric ward at midnight, came home to their apartment and kicked their roommate out (took keys from him etc) and told him all their trust for him was gone. Now we do not know how/where they are and are obviously worried. I am in addition quite scared of their remorse and that they will come to my apartment to tell at me.

Also THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR RESPONSES. It helps immensely to read what you have to say. I am trying to calm down from it all and to make sure that I am protecting myself.

An ignorant comment by a pro-lifer:

You did nothing wrong. There is no way you could've known if that was real. Calling the police was your best option. Also this is a toxic friend. Looks like they did you a favor by cutting you off. Just make sure they don't come back to you with their drama in the future.

-Interesting-Clock525

Note: I am not discounting the fact that from the pro-lifer's pov, their so called 'suicidal' friend could have been manipulating or trying to guilt trip them, nor the fact that the pro-lifer's feel (probably instinctly and/or just from their upbringing, societal expectations, fellow pro-life peers) that they need to intervene to stop someone from CTB'ing. In fact, this thread is just pointing out the inconsistencies in pro-lifer's logic and bringing to light the fact that they (the pro-lifers) aren't really bothered by the outcome of the person (whether the person actually died or not) but rather the act of CTB itself. They are more offended and bothered of the knowledge that someone may do so.

On a slightly different point, yet similar point, in another SaSu thread written by @Valso, that thread focuses on the actions that pro-lifers similar to mine, but more on revenue and the economic aspects of why government and religious institutions want to prevent CTB as well as what they can get from others. Back on topic though, I see the fact that CTB prevention especially by individuals who aren't necessarily after economic value and monetary gains are solely ego driven and wanting to protect their atavistic, fragile worldview (a just world, rose-tinted view on life, etc.) and will go to just about any length to do so, even to the detriment of those who don't agree with them nor done anything to the pro-lifers other than simply wanting to exit life.

It's not about what happens to the person or individual that has been prevented from exercising their bodily autonomy, but rather the knowledge or fact that said person was going to (or attempted and failed) CTB, which is something that pro-lifers cannot bear and if they had no knowledge of such an event, then they would not be bothered by it. It is also evidenced by how their fellow pro-life peers even celebrated the fact that these people are no longer in their lives as a 'blessing'. In the end, I just wanted to point out the contradiction in logic that pro-lifers had as well as proving that it's not about the result/outcome of the said person, but just the knowledge of the CTB that bothers pro-lifers the most, hence they want to do everything they can to uphold that atavistic worldview, even to the detriment of the pro-choicers, dissidents.

 

[Downdraft]

Also this is a toxic friend. Looks like they did you a favor by cutting you off. Just make sure they don't come back to you with their drama in the future.

See her blocking you as your opportunity to move on and not look back

This is in direct opposition with wanting to help. They say to help your suicidal friends, but then, encourage telling them to fuck off and blaming their feelings on them. If you want to help them or prevent suicide, I don't see what solution abandoning vulnerable people is.

Would you rather call the police and piss off the person who is still alive or not call the police and spend the rest of your life wondering that maybe if you had called them she would still be alive and if you should have done something to stop her

The intentions don't seem good. This person seems more concerned about they ruminating than the actual life. Also, have you wondered, maybe, you couldn't have done anything, or worse, that person could have something wrong for the rest of your life, and you made a problem worse? Have you wondered they may be even more suicidal now?

 

[Scythe]

We see the similar behaviour with pro life people regarding abortion, they don't care about the orphans or the women doing back alley abortions. People have went up to pro lifers and asked them to adopt children before and they get turned down, rudely sometimes. Showing that in reality they don't and never cared about the children, they just hate reproductive rights. And they certainly don't care about the women as they constantly harrass them.

 

[Angel_01]

We see the similar behaviour with pro life people regarding abortion, they don't care about the orphans or the women doing back alley abortions. People have went up to pro lifers and asked them to adopt children before and they get turned down, rudely sometimes. Showing that in reality they don't and never cared about the children, they just hate reproductive rights. And they certainly don't care about the women as they constantly harrass them.

This reminds me of something I saw on reddit:



I just feel that people really shouldn't expect much from others in terms of actual support. Most people are unempathetic and are only "helpful" because they gain things from it or want to be seen as "good".

 

[theboy]

I admit that some pro-life arguments are lazy and do not understand others when it comes to mental health.

 

[sserafim]

We see the similar behaviour with pro life people regarding abortion, they don't care about the orphans or the women doing back alley abortions. People have went up to pro lifers and asked them to adopt children before and they get turned down, rudely sometimes. Showing that in reality they don't and never cared about the children, they just hate reproductive rights. And they certainly don't care about the women as they constantly harrass them.

Pro-lifers are hypocrites. They just want to exert control over women to feel superior. They believe that they're morally correct so they want to spread their ideology (all possible life should be birthed) without any care for the reality of the details (the resulting children).

 

[TAW122]

Just as a bump to this thread, I basically want to reiterate that this thread is just to expose and prove the fact that pro-lifers don't care about the outcome or the consequences of intervention (whether positive or negative) and are only doing so to fulfill their egos and hero-complex. This is evidenced by the fact that there are many CTB's going on (even as time goes on) that they are unaware of (even if they subconsciously know) and we almost never hear nor see them go on some campaign to all the parts around the world to play hero. Furthermore, when their said target/person cuts them off in their life, it would be almost the same as if they died because they (the pro-lifers) would not likely to hear nor learn about the future of them. Therefore, this is just proof that pro-lifers are merely padding their egos and trying to protect their own atavistic worldviews and morals rather than caring for the person they are trying to save/forced continued sentience.

While I've already stated that, I just wanted to make my point concise and clear once more.

This is in direct opposition with wanting to help. They say to help your suicidal friends, but then, encourage telling them to fuck off and blaming their feelings on them. If you want to help them or prevent suicide, I don't see what solution abandoning vulnerable people is.


The intentions don't seem good. This person seems more concerned about they ruminating than the actual life. Also, have you wondered, maybe, you couldn't have done anything, or worse, that person could have something wrong for the rest of your life, and you made a problem worse? Have you wondered they may be even more suicidal now?

Good points and yeah, what you mentioned just proves that pro-lifers are just after their own egos and interests. (Almost) never the outcome or aftermath of their actions negatively impacting the said person. Yes, there are people who become even more suicidal after the fact, but many pro-lifers won't acknowledge it or even downplay it by disingenuously citing the fact that more people saved than those who aren't (confirmation and selection bias but I digress).

We see the similar behaviour with pro life people regarding abortion, they don't care about the orphans or the women doing back alley abortions. People have went up to pro lifers and asked them to adopt children before and they get turned down, rudely sometimes. Showing that in reality they don't and never cared about the children, they just hate reproductive rights. And they certainly don't care about the women as they constantly harrass them.

True, that's a good example as well, pro-lifers (the anti-abortion type) just want to dictate what others' do and they hide behind such rhetoric (caring about the would be conceived or would be sentient life) even though their real intentions is really about limiting women's reproductive rights and infringement of bodily autonomy.

This reminds me of something I saw on reddit:

View attachment 132715

I just feel that people really shouldn't expect much from others in terms of actual support. Most people are unempathetic and are only "helpful" because they gain things from it or want to be seen as "good".

Yeah it sounds hypocritical that the pro-lifer (anti-abortionist) person is then getting upset about her life being inconvenienced by her supporting of pro-life policies. This is just an example showing that pro-lifers have no problem with imposing their views and will onto others when it's convenient, but when it starts to affect them, they do a 180-turn and start complaining about the inconveniences that are going to be imposed upon them.

I admit that some pro-life arguments are lazy and do not understand others when it comes to mental health.

Indeed and my examples in my thread just proves that point succinctly.

Pro-lifers are hypocrites. They just want to exert control over women to feel superior. They believe that they're morally correct so they want to spread their ideology (all possible life should be birthed) without any care for the reality of the details (the resulting children).

True, it's all about control and upholding their atavistic worldviews.

 

[0000000000000]

Some of them just want to feel like heroes.

Some just feel like others should not escape 'the bucket' so easily.

Some want to control the lives of others.

They don't give a shit about the welfare of the person.

They can go on with their thing ignoring your suffering for decades, but god if they find out you are going to CTB soon.

These people are very repulsive.

 

[DreamEnd]

This is certainly not a new topic and various topics I have discussed about the central premise being that "pro-lifers only care about intervening to prevent the act (CTB) itself, but doesn't care about the aftermath that results from their actions." In this thread however, I will share some more examples I found that support my premise.

In fact, they would rather even have their targets be mad at them and alive than dead and at peace. For instance, there are people in the world who have died whether via CTB or by other causes that they don't know/have knowledge of and they aren't really bothered by that. In fact, they (the pro-lifers) continue to live their lives like any other mundane, ordinary day. They only care if they know/have knowledge of the prospective CTB. Ignorance is bliss and what one doesn't know can't hurt them (the pro-lifers).

Even as the writing of this article, there are perhaps millions in the world who CTB each year and you don't hear about people going out of their way to intervene those (in fact there are many who do it even as we debate these arguments). However! It's when they have knowledge it suddenly 'bothers' them and they have to stop it. It's all the same at the end, feeding their egos and not wanting to confront the reality that is life. What does someone in a third world country/impoverished area and a nobody dies or succumbs to mortality? People don't really give a shit that much, maybe (pretend to) give a shit only to look "good" and be some model citizen…

Here are some examples that show how pro-lifers don't care about the aftermath, only their egos and about preventing the 'act of ultimate bodily autonomy'.

Example 1



Ignorant comment by a pro-lifer in that thread:



Example 2



An ignorant comment by a pro-lifer:



Note: I am not discounting the fact that from the pro-lifer's pov, their so called 'suicidal' friend could have been manipulating or trying to guilt trip them, nor the fact that the pro-lifer's feel (probably instinctly and/or just from their upbringing, societal expectations, fellow pro-life peers) that they need to intervene to stop someone from CTB'ing. In fact, this thread is just pointing out the inconsistencies in pro-lifer's logic and bringing to light the fact that they (the pro-lifers) aren't really bothered by the outcome of the person (whether the person actually died or not) but rather the act of CTB itself. They are more offended and bothered of the knowledge that someone may do so.

On a slightly different point, yet similar point, in another SaSu thread written by @Valso, that thread focuses on the actions that pro-lifers similar to mine, but more on revenue and the economic aspects of why government and religious institutions want to prevent CTB as well as what they can get from others. Back on topic though, I see the fact that CTB prevention especially by individuals who aren't necessarily after economic value and monetary gains are solely ego driven and wanting to protect their atavistic, fragile worldview (a just world, rose-tinted view on life, etc.) and will go to just about any length to do so, even to the detriment of those who don't agree with them nor done anything to the pro-lifers other than simply wanting to exit life.

It's not about what happens to the person or individual that has been prevented from exercising their bodily autonomy, but rather the knowledge or fact that said person was going to (or attempted and failed) CTB, which is something that pro-lifers cannot bear and if they had no knowledge of such an event, then they would not be bothered by it. It is also evidenced by how their fellow pro-life peers even celebrated the fact that these people are no longer in their lives as a 'blessing'. In the end, I just wanted to point out the contradiction in logic that pro-lifers had as well as proving that it's not about the result/outcome of the said person, but just the knowledge of the CTB that bothers pro-lifers the most, hence they want to do everything they can to uphold that atavistic worldview, even to the detriment of the pro-choicers, dissidents.

I don't think some examples here are necessarily that outrageous. If you have a friend that hasnt displayed any signs of suicidal tendencies and then all of a sudden they text you that they are gonna die and cut of all communications with you. That just sounds like an impulsive decision based on some event that happened to them. What should their friend do in such a case? If one of my friends did it it certainly wouldn't feel like a rational decision and pre planned affair more like an impulsive case of a short lived suicidal crisis.

Now where I agree with you and seem to disagree with the example is the post treatment of that person. It seems better to try to get them help instead of cutting off all communication entirely. The fact that some responders encouraged the person to cut off all communication from the suicidal person is really worrying and says a lot about the stigma of being suicidal in our society

 

[Z-A]

To me being "pro-life" and "caring" was always just typical hypocrisy, it never proved me wrong. It's just that people try to show empathy to gain attention and respect, it's all selfish gaslighting.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

This is a well written thread as always. Unfortunately, I believe that people will always care more about preventing the act over anything else as that's just a response which is inevitable to occur within a population that believes in preserving human life at all costs no matter what it takes. I believe that this section within the second example describes their mentality regarding all of this:

On the other hand I don't fing care how they are stopped from offing themselves as long as they don't succeed and are safe

 

[0000000000000]

This is a well written thread as always. Unfortunately, I believe that people will always care more about preventing the act over anything else as that's just a response which is inevitable to occur within a population that believes in preserving human life at all costs no matter what it takes. I believe that this section within the second example describes their mentality regarding all of this:

You can be a torso on life support, fed with tubes and in constant pain but according to them that's better because you're still alive.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I wish everyone would stop calling these idiots "pro-lifers" and start calling them what they really are, "anti-choicers".

 

[SilentSadness]

I don't see how they expect to be trusted after calling the police on their friends when they haven't even done anything wrong.

 

[TAW122]

Some of them just want to feel like heroes.

Some just feel like others should not escape 'the bucket' so easily.

Some want to control the lives of others.

They don't give a shit about the welfare of the person.

They can go on with their thing ignoring your suffering for decades, but god if they find out you are going to CTB soon.

These people are very repulsive.

Of course, well said especially the 3rd sentence. It's true for a lot of those people, they just want to "control" what others' do with their lives and overlook the concept of bodily autonomy (or even only apply it selectively rather than universally).

I don't think some examples here are necessarily that outrageous. If you have a friend that hasnt displayed any signs of suicidal tendencies and then all of a sudden they text you that they are gonna die and cut of all communications with you. That just sounds like an impulsive decision based on some event that happened to them. What should their friend do in such a case? If one of my friends did it it certainly wouldn't feel like a rational decision and pre planned affair more like an impulsive case of a short lived suicidal crisis.

Now where I agree with you and seem to disagree with the example is the post treatment of that person. It seems better to try to get them help instead of cutting off all communication entirely. The fact that some responders encouraged the person to cut off all communication from the suicidal person is really worrying and says a lot about the stigma of being suicidal in our society

Well, in the examples I provided, it's true that I don't know the whole situation. However, assuming that said person was and has been suicidal for at least many years and their circumstances are not improving nor likely to improve, then it wouldn't be fair for others to keep holding them hostage to life in hopes that one day they'll be grateful for it. As for the suicidal person blocking/cutting off contact with their (now former) friend, the so called 'friend' is basically dead to the suicidal person and vice versa as this means that either way said person wouldn't have knowledge of whatever happens to the suicidal person, which is de facto the person being dead (even though said person could be alive). Therefore, this would be proof that pro-lifers (or anti-choicers) don't care about the outcome as proven that if said target person (the suicidal person) cuts all contact from them, then it is almost as if they were dead (even if they had 2nd or 3rd hand information that they are not). It's the act of preventing CTB that these anti-choicers care about most, not so much the result as whether the suicidal person actually CTBs or doesn't CTB would have little to not impact on the anti-choicer's life.

To me being "pro-life" and "caring" was always just typical hypocrisy, it never proved me wrong. It's just that people try to show empathy to gain attention and respect, it's all selfish gaslighting.

Indeed, and not only gaslighting (which is already aggravating and obnoxious on it's own), but more nefarious that they actually invoke the State (government) to employ an act of aggression, phyiscal violence under the guise of 'help' then justify it via the label of 'mental illness' and 'irrationality' of said subject/person.

This is a well written thread as always. Unfortunately, I believe that people will always care more about preventing the act over anything else as that's just a response which is inevitable to occur within a population that believes in preserving human life at all costs no matter what it takes. I believe that this section within the second example describes their mentality regarding all of this:

Thanks and yeah, I agree, pro-lifers/anti-choicers just care about preventing the act and it's adequate proof that even after their subject/target person (the suicidal) cuts all contact from them, their fellow anti-choicer peers just reassure them that they did the right moral thing. As for the universe, it wouldn't have any impact whether or not the said person actually CTB'd or not, but just the knowledge of such an event or potential for CTB is what bothers pro-lifers/anti-choicers the most. It is absolutely vile and repulsive as well as tyrannical for these anti-choicers to meddle and intervene in such a manner; it's again to satiate their atavistic morals and uphold their beliefs, not necessarily to help improve the lives of the suicidal.

You can be a torso on life support, fed with tubes and in constant pain but according to them that's better because you're still alive.

Yeah it's despicable and while there are more countries that are becoming more tolerant of assisted suicide or medical aid in dying for people in such situations, it still has a long way to go. Hopefully it will expand to cover those who aren't necessarily terminal or in such bad circumstances and even allowing passive euthanasia and letting nature take it's course (with comfort measures like pain reduction, pain management, etc.) would be a step in the right direction.

I wish everyone would stop calling these idiots "pro-lifers" and start calling them what they really are, "anti-choicers".

I hear what you are saying, but I often use the term pro-lifer because that's what most people use and I didn't want people to be confused if I start using other terms to describe those groups of people, such as anti-choicer, pro-sufferers, anti-suicide, prohibitionists, preventionists, etc. I know you know, but not everyone is on the same page. Until I think most people on SaSu can recognize different terminology, then I'd probably just use the most common term to avoid confusion.

I don't see how they expect to be trusted after calling the police on their friends when they haven't even done anything wrong.

Exactly, what these people did were despicable and I don't fault the suicidal person for cutting them out of their lives.

------

Anyways, so I just found a thread that I wrote years ago which will elaborate more in depth what I mean about how cutting off all contact with another person is de facto the same as if the person was dead.

Human Incongruity when it comes death (or of the similiar)

Today is yet another sore reminder of the incongruity of humanity as a whole, especially when it comes to death. The incongruity, specifically, lies in the fact that humans would do things that either result in death (both figuratively and literally, or one or the other), yet would deny the an...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Basically in a summary, dead people no longer communicate nor could give responses, and it's just about the same as if the person ceased all contact, therefore, when said suicidal person blocked the anti-choicer (their former friend), then that means as far as the anti-choicer friend would no longer be able to interact with said person, they are gone forever, hence the equivalence of 'death' despite the suicidal person may be alive. Either way, from the anti-choicer's perspective, it would be similar to death of the person as they have no other way of contact. Thus proving that anti-choicer's only care about the act and are most offended by the knowledge of someone checking out of life/catching the bus. If they had no knowledge of such, then they could not be bothered as their lives would more/less go on.

I hope that thread I linked actually explained more in depth of what I'm trying to get at.