Yet another reason I'm for voluntary euthanasia

[MaybeMaybeKnot]

What's pegasos literature and where can I find it?

Pegasos Swiss Association

pegasos-association.com

 

[charlie_z]

at what point would they be able to decide that someone can't recover - as SOME people do- like how many months or years would someone have to be suffering from ptsd or severe depression before it was deemed untreatable & therefore chronic- like how many meds/ treatments should need to be tried or tested before everyone would accept that this person will not be able to "get better" and therefore would be suffering from mental anguish for the rest of their lives.

Hey MeltingHeart. I unfortunately, completely concur with your point. Individuals with body related terminal illnesses have at their disposal actuarial charts that offer statistical data related to a particular illnesses and their likely evolution to point of death. This fact, along with ongoing medical consultations and sometimes end-of-life therapy, provides the affected person a chance to study his or her options and, if the conditions warrant it, ask for help preparing for euthanasia, a practice that is becoming more widespread and accepted, if slowly.

As individuals suffering from extremely painful and often long-term forms of severe mental illnesses, we may come to know that we no longer wish to live the lives we're living, and that if given a safe, humane manner to end our lives, those convinced of their choice would gladly take that route. And yet, we have an Achilles heel in our efforts to make the wider community understand our position. As MeltingHeart eloquently pointed out, there currently does not exist a way to definitively quantify, not only the real pain a mentally ill person is suffering, or to gauge at what point the individual is said to longer have a chance at recovery.

The outcome is that both the medical and legal authorities are loathed to tackle this question in court. I understand the slippery slope argument, but I would argue that as the possessor of my body, I possess an inalienable right to seek succor to right a wrong to my body or to end my life if I find I can no longer function and endure in the world.

 

[I’vehadenough]

Pegasos Swiss Association

pegasos-association.com

Thanks, I'll try to apply to them. Major communication barriers with Dignitas

 

[MeltingHeart]

Hey MeltingHeart. I unfortunately, completely concur with your point. Individuals with body related terminal illnesses have at their disposal actuarial charts that offer statistical data related to a particular illnesses and their likely evolution to point of death. This fact, along with ongoing medical consultations and sometimes end-of-life therapy, provides the affected person a chance to study his or her options and, if the conditions warrant it, ask for help preparing for euthanasia, a practice that is becoming more widespread and accepted, if slowly.

As individuals suffering from extremely painful and often long-term forms of severe mental illnesses, we may come to know that we no longer wish to live the lives we're living, and that if given a safe, humane manner to end our lives, those convinced of their choice would gladly take that route. And yet, we have an Achilles heel in our efforts to make the wider community understand our position. As MeltingHeart eloquently pointed out, there currently does not exist a way to definitively quantify, not only the real pain a mentally ill person is suffering, or to gauge at what point the individual is said to longer have a chance at recovery.

The outcome is that both the medical and legal authorities are loathed to tackle this question in court. I understand the slippery slope argument, but I would argue that as the possessor of my body, I possess an inalienable right to seek succor to right a wrong to my body or to end my life if I find I can no longer function and endure in the world.

I wish it would be recognised as just as equal to physical pain, after all it is part of the body, the mind-the brain! exists within our bodies, depression in a kind of brain pain I suppose. I cant help but feel even a year of severe depression in enough- but others would disagree wildly, so yeah the gauging & timeframes, attempts at treatment prior and so forth...would be tricky...also I guess some people dont even have clinical depression as such, rather they are just very unhappy with their life, cant really change it now- or see a way 'out', they have 'lost all hope' if you will- I think some of them would like euthanasia-but again (all theoretically) how would it be decided when their circumstances are deemed irrevocable bad and they wont be able to live a 'happy' life. Obvs. this last one is never going to happen- but I am almost using it - as I can imagine this is how some people view 'depression' in the same way - that is can improve, 'get better', you wont always feel this way, which sadly sometimes is simply not the case.

 

[TAW122]

@I'vehadenough That is really terrible, especially your doctor's grave mistake of fucking up a procedure, leaving you in such a predicament. I would really recommend filing a complaint and perhaps a lawsuit over emotional damages (plus other damages) if possible. I personally would respect and understand your reason to CTB in such a situation. Sometimes, psychological suffering can equal (or even exceed) physical suffering.

@MeltingHeart Yes, I see where you are coming in regards to allowing euthanasia for those who are suffering from mental illnesses. It is indeed a grey area since psychological damage and suffering is harder to measure than say, physical damage (where it is more concrete). As far as the criterion, you are correct that is difficult to set a benchmark or baseline as to how much suffering one has to go through before being allowed to end one's life. I suppose the best thing is there is now is based on the case of Aurelia Brouwers, a 29-year old Dutch citizen who was given assisted suicide due to her chronic mental illnesses and suffering. That is a start for considering what could be used as a baseline. Now, I know that each person's suffering and tolerance are all different so another person's suffering isn't the same as AB, so it would be up to how much a person is willing to go through with. As a general recommendation, it is advised that as long as the person knows that it's what he/she wants, has suffered over a long period of time (many months, years, etc.), has consulted and sought help (counseling) for said problem and also gone through the proper screenings, then I believe they should be given the green light (the approval and legal right/choice) to end their own lives. How much screening, how intense, and what not still varies though, it depends on the condition, but by having voluntary euthanasia available, it could even give some people the freedom and inspiration to continue fighting in this life (see example of a 24-year old Belgian citizen named Emily, that story was a couple of years ago.).

Back to my main topic of my thread though, in addendum, I do want to clarify that I still believe that voluntary euthanasia is still king when it comes to solving insurmountable, chronic (long term and on-going) problems that an individual may face. So to be more specific, on the example/topic of inceldom, and those who are really unfortunate (not just those who didn't try, but those who done their best, did ALL they could possibly do, with reasonable efforts (and more), but still face such a problem - I am referring to the Trucels, meaning those who are so undesired that even sex workers reject them due to their ugliness or whathaveyou reasons.), they do deserve a dignified exit from a hellish existence. However, since ugliness and just inceldom (unable to get laid, including not being able to get laid via paying for it in legal places) alone would not qualify for it, the problems that arise from it may. So in short, I support voluntary euthanasia not just for those with long term, permanent physical issues and suffering, but also those with low quality of life due to the emotional suffering and permanent psychological (also physical - since looks are physical too) issues.

 

[MeltingHeart]

@I'vehadenough That is really terrible, especially your doctor's grave mistake of fucking up a procedure, leaving you in such a predicament. I would really recommend filing a complaint and perhaps a lawsuit over emotional damages (plus other damages) if possible. I personally would respect and understand your reason to CTB in such a situation. Sometimes, psychological suffering can equal (or even exceed) physical suffering.

@MeltingHeart Yes, I see where you are coming in regards to allowing euthanasia for those who are suffering from mental illnesses. It is indeed a grey area since psychological damage and suffering is harder to measure than say, physical damage (where it is more concrete). As far as the criterion, you are correct that is difficult to set a benchmark or baseline as to how much suffering one has to go through before being allowed to end one's life. I suppose the best thing is there is now is based on the case of Aurelia Brouwers, a 29-year old Dutch citizen who was given assisted suicide due to her chronic mental illnesses and suffering. That is a start for considering what could be used as a baseline. Now, I know that each person's suffering and tolerance are all different so another person's suffering isn't the same as AB, so it would be up to how much a person is willing to go through with. As a general recommendation, it is advised that as long as the person knows that it's what he/she wants, has suffered over a long period of time (many months, years, etc.), has consulted and sought help (counseling) for said problem and also gone through the proper screenings, then I believe they should be given the green light (the approval and legal right/choice) to end their own lives. How much screening, how intense, and what not still varies though, it depends on the condition, but by having voluntary euthanasia available, it could even give some people the freedom and inspiration to continue fighting in this life (see example of a 24-year old Belgian citizen named Emily, that story was a couple of years ago.).

Back to my main topic of my thread though, in addendum, I do want to clarify that I still believe that voluntary euthanasia is still king when it comes to solving insurmountable, chronic (long term and on-going) problems that an individual may face. So to be more specific, on the example/topic of inceldom, and those who are really unfortunate (not just those who didn't try, but those who done their best, did ALL they could possibly do, with reasonable efforts (and more), but still face such a problem - I am referring to the Trucels, meaning those who are so undesired that even sex workers reject them due to their ugliness or whathaveyou reasons.), they do deserve a dignified exit from a hellish existence. However, since ugliness and just inceldom (unable to get laid, including not being able to get laid via paying for it in legal places) alone would not qualify for it, the problems that arise from it may. So in short, I support voluntary euthanasia not just for those with long term, permanent physical issues and suffering, but also those with low quality of life due to the emotional suffering and permanent psychological (also physical - since looks are physical too) issues.

@thrw_a_way1221221 I wonder if they would have let Aurelia do this (signed it off) if she hadnt self-harmed or attempted many times- maybe that served as some kind of 'proof' as some have said her death would have been inevitable in the end, and this allowed her a peaceful one. Physical or not it seems so cruel and unfair that some people have to suffer just because they are not born in the right country or simply dont have the money for euthanasia- everything in life, its injustices, seems to boil to money in the end.

 

[TAW122]

@thrw_a_way1221221 I wonder if they would have let Aurelia do this (signed it off) if she hadnt self-harmed or attempted many times- maybe that served as some kind of 'proof' as some have said her death would have been inevitable in the end, and this allowed her a peaceful one. Physical or not it seems so cruel and unfair that some people have to suffer just because they are not born in the right country or simply dont have the money for euthanasia- everything in life, its injustices, seems to boil to money in the end.

I don't really know, but given her situation, it is evident that she has been suffering for an extended time and has already exhausted many avenues of aid and that her psychological suffering will eventually lead to death (much much later). Therefore, I do think that since the doctors believed that death is inevitable and instead of dragging out her suffering and also wasting more resources to keep trying to 'cure' Aurelia, it would be more economical and humane to allow her a peaceful and dignified death. I agree with you that it sucks that most parts of the world people who wish to die dignified are not afforded that option either due to cost and/or legality of euthanasia. Instead many people would end up having to resort to uglier methods to CTB, sometimes resulting in collateral damage and/or end up as a vegetable (due to failed attempts).

 

[Sweet emotion]

it was the drugs for the surgery that disfigured my face badly. They caused my face to decay so bad, I look worse than the people on faces of meth. Imagine going the rest of your life looking like an ugly junkie. I'd rather have my face burned off then look like this.
Although it was a type of plastic surgery, it was a surgery because I was assaulted by somebody who broke my face. If I had to choose between a broken face and what those drugs did to my face, I would choose the broken face in a heartbeat. I still wanted to live with a broken face

My heart breaks for you. I can't even imagine what you're going through. I hope you find peace soon.
I agree with voluntary euthanasia. I have Complex regional pain syndrome which is the highest ranking pain condition in medical history. And that just isn't me saying that. Look at the McGill pain scale. It only gets worse over time and there is no cure and there are no treatments. I've had it for 14 years and I'll have it until I die. Doctors don't even know what it is because it's not taught inmedical school. There is no awareness so there is no research. It makes me laugh. There is breast cancer awareness month but everyone is already well aware about breast cancer. This disease has been around since the beginning of time and no one has heard of it. It's literally known as the suicide disease. My very good friend who had it killed herself at 31 three years ago. She was beautiful, talented, compassionate, I could go on and on. She told me about a doctor that she talked to before she killed herself and he told her what to do. I talked to him before but I'm going to call him again. I definitely have enough medication to put an elephant down but I don't think I shoukd have to do this myself. Where is Dr. Kevorkian when you need him? You can only be out to sleep if you have 6 months or left to live but there are so many diseases out there that out you in misery for life. You don't get to die and be out out of your misery. We shouldn't have to do this ourselves and worry about if it's going to work or not or if we're going to come back worse than we are now. I have no history of mental illness. I don't see why there isn't a law to end someone's misery who has a chrobic disease that is destroying them.
I agree with voluntary euthanasia. I have Complex regional pain syndrome which is the highest ranking pain condition in medical history. And that just isn't me saying that. Look at the McGill pain scale. It only gets worse over time and there is no cure and there are no treatments. I've had it for 14 years and I'll have it until I die. Doctors don't even know what it is because it's not taught inmedical school. There is no awareness so there is no research. It makes me laugh. There is breast cancer awareness month but everyone is already well aware about breast cancer. This disease has been around since the beginning of time and no one has heard of it. It's literally known as the suicide disease. My very good friend who had it killed herself at 31 three years ago. She was beautiful, talented, compassionate, I could go on and on. She told me about a doctor that she talked to before she killed herself and he told her what to do. I talked to him before but I'm going to call him again. I definitely have enough medication to put an elephant down but I don't think I shoukd have to do this myself. Where is Dr. Kevorkian when you need him? You can only be out to sleep if you have 6 months or left to live but there are so many diseases out there that out you in misery for life. You don't get to die and be out out of your misery. We shouldn't have to do this ourselves and worry about if it's going to work or not or if we're going to come back worse than we are now. I have no history of mental illness. I don't see why there isn't a law to end someone's misery who has a chrobic disease that is destroying them.

 

[I’vehadenough]

My heart breaks for you. I can't even imagine what you're going through. I hope you find peace soon.
I agree with voluntary euthanasia. I have Complex regional pain syndrome which is the highest ranking pain condition in medical history. And that just isn't me saying that. Look at the McGill pain scale. It only gets worse over time and there is no cure and there are no treatments. I've had it for 14 years and I'll have it until I die. Doctors don't even know what it is because it's not taught inmedical school. There is no awareness so there is no research. It makes me laugh. There is breast cancer awareness month but everyone is already well aware about breast cancer. This disease has been around since the beginning of time and no one has heard of it. It's literally known as the suicide disease. My very good friend who had it killed herself at 31 three years ago. She was beautiful, talented, compassionate, I could go on and on. She told me about a doctor that she talked to before she killed herself and he told her what to do. I talked to him before but I'm going to call him again. I definitely have enough medication to put an elephant down but I don't think I shoukd have to do this myself. Where is Dr. Kevorkian when you need him? You can only be out to sleep if you have 6 months or left to live but there are so many diseases out there that out you in misery for life. You don't get to die and be out out of your misery. We shouldn't have to do this ourselves and worry about if it's going to work or not or if we're going to come back worse than we are now. I have no history of mental illness. I don't see why there isn't a law to end someone's misery who has a chrobic disease that is destroying them.
I agree with voluntary euthanasia. I have Complex regional pain syndrome which is the highest ranking pain condition in medical history. And that just isn't me saying that. Look at the McGill pain scale. It only gets worse over time and there is no cure and there are no treatments. I've had it for 14 years and I'll have it until I die. Doctors don't even know what it is because it's not taught inmedical school. There is no awareness so there is no research. It makes me laugh. There is breast cancer awareness month but everyone is already well aware about breast cancer. This disease has been around since the beginning of time and no one has heard of it. It's literally known as the suicide disease. My very good friend who had it killed herself at 31 three years ago. She was beautiful, talented, compassionate, I could go on and on. She told me about a doctor that she talked to before she killed herself and he told her what to do. I talked to him before but I'm going to call him again. I definitely have enough medication to put an elephant down but I don't think I shoukd have to do this myself. Where is Dr. Kevorkian when you need him? You can only be out to sleep if you have 6 months or left to live but there are so many diseases out there that out you in misery for life. You don't get to die and be out out of your misery. We shouldn't have to do this ourselves and worry about if it's going to work or not or if we're going to come back worse than we are now. I have no history of mental illness. I don't see why there isn't a law to end someone's misery who has a chrobic disease that is destroying them.

Damn, it's like we're going through the same type of problem where it's something we can't live with. And also it's something nobody ever heard of. I'm sure like me, you want to live life so bad, but all you can do is be on the outside looking in. It will never get any better than that. The agony this causes is unbearable. I can only imagine how much physical pain you are in and my heart goes out to you