anti-natalism always seemed very christian and overly sentimental in its emphasis and perverse infatuation with (the tragedy and allure of) pain. dunno, i guess I still hope evolution of civilization is possible. anti-n doesnt seem immoral to me, it seems overly moralistic. like, 'LOOK, NOONE should ever suffer like I DID, I'f I cant have meaning in my life, no-one should'. on the other hand, perspectivism is much better - saying we are vastly different from one another, and the range of experience is extremely diverse - true hapiness and bliss is as real and present on earth as suffering and anguish - or if that seems too much, none of them are really that important, neither bliss nor suffering, its just human egotism that makes them seem so important, dramatic, cosmically relevant
Anti-natalism has nothing to do with christianity at large: "Go forth and multiply" (Genesis 9:7) has been the credo of the church for millenia.
"perverse infatuation with (the tragedy and allure of) pain."
That is plain nonsense and nothing but empty rhetoric: antinatalism recognises the reality and omnipresence of suffering, contrasts it with non-being and draws an ethical conclusion from it regarding procreation. You mistake antinatalism for sadism and masochism.
'Overly sentimental': how callous does one have to be to categorize calling attention to the 31 million children who by malnutrition each year alone (UNICEF number for 2018) 'overly sentimental'? Or any form of great suffering and injustice for that matter. Do you care about nothing at all and do you feel nothing if you witness others' suffering?
"perspectivism is much better"
Physical and mental pain is universal and transcends barriers of time, space, culture and individual differences. Pain is essential to human existence and we've all felt it: to say it depends on the individual amounts to denying everyone has the same highly developed nervous system and an active mind and thus the capacity for great suffering. 'Perspectivism' is pure egocentrism and gleefully mocking of others' pain because one isn't at the moment suffering the same fate. Wait your turn and you'll quickly realize the folly of your view on this.
Aninatalism is a coherent philosophical position that does not rest on any individualistic perspective nor on the denial of the possibility of happiness. If you're going to criticze something at least know what it's about.
"none of them are really that important, bliss nor suffering, its just human egotism that makes them seem so important, dramatic, cosmically relevant"
I'm sorry but that's just dumb, pseudo-spiritual BS and a completely heartless, callous mockery of the very real suffering on this forum alone let alone the world over. In Buddhism there are several stories of supposedly enlightened monks (they were proclaimed by Buddha himself as having attained final Nirvana after their death) who slit their own throats to escape various terminal illnesses that caused them great pain but I'm sure you're more enlightened than they were and it'll all be nothing when you get to waste away from cancer or any horrible disease that causes great suffering.
Do you really think the Holocaust/Shoa to name just one example is 'cosmically irrelevant'? Whatever that may mean: the cosmos isn't a living being and we can't take that position. Not to mention the fact that we are the pinnacle of what the cosmos has to offer since as far as we know we're the only species able to make such abstract value judgements. Would you really call the completely inhumane, absolutely unjust, unimaginable suffering of millions on millions of innocent merely trivial? That is the consequence of an attitude such as yours which amounts to nothing more than the simple, unqualified denial of the reality and heavy burden of suffering which cannot possibly be reasoned away on anyone it touches.
Take a hammer, hit your thumb with it as hard as you can and tell me pain is 'cosmically irrelevant' and it's just human egotism that causes you to behave as if it actually mattered.
Whether or not you realize it you're clearly an optimist. Yet you're a member of a suicide forum: seems rather contradictory, doesn't it? Why would anyone even think of suicide if pain doesn't really matter and can easily be overcome by taking a lofty perspective?
